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  • #31
    I've been eating 2 entire watermelons a week for the past 2 months. If you're skipping out on fruit, I feel sorry for you.

    Fruit > oil.

    Fruit is a real, whole food. Oil is a man-made, processed food with ever-varying degrees of refinement and quality, and often from a questionable source (see: black market olive oil, varying quality of butter and environmental impacts of coconut and palm oil).

    I'm guessing few people have qualms using oil for cooking or salads. Fruit is superior to oil in pretty much every way, shape and form, yet it gets a bad rap. I'll never understand it. A much smarter way to judge your food is to compare nutrition-per-calorie, not carbohydrate content. I challenge you to compare the least nutritious fruits to the most nutritious oils on a calorie-per-calorie basis.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by BennettC View Post
      I am a fat burner, not sugar. And the butter wont be stored as body fat as long as it isn't in the prescience of carbohydrate where as the watermelon is very readily stored as body fat. Very little of the watermelon would be used as fuel, where as 200 calories of butter can all be used as fuel.
      Wtf. If you have a healthy metabolism, a person being either a fat-burner and sugar-burner are moot points. Your body will burn the fat from your body after the fructose or the butter converts to body fat, so what's the big deal?
      My chocolatey Primal journey

      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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      • #33
        Gotta love the Taubesians.
        “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

        Owly's Journal

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          The way I look at it, we likely evolved in equatorial Africa which was tropical more often than not, yes when we got meat, we gorged, but there were plenty of times we didn't bother to hunt because it was easier to pick the in season fruit or dig a good stash of tubers.
          Everyone seems to get this idea "why would I hunt a bag of berries when I can hunt a steak at the supermarket, they both cost about the same and come in the same size package."
          Ever tried picking up a stick and chasing a wild goat down to exhaustion and then killing an animal that doesn't want to be killed, it aint all that easy, just because you choose to hunt doesnt mean it's always successful.
          There is too much emphasis on meat, it was important, but it wasn't everything, the reason our bodies are so well adapted to managing glucose is because at certain times of the year it was a significant part of our energy intake other times it would have been meat, fat, organs, bones etc., so it's about "metabolic flexability" as someone wrote elswhere.
          I agree that if we only ate meat we wouldn't be here today. The human body is very versatile and we could live off a number of different things. The point is the majority of the diet was meat, when they had meat they didn't even bother eat fruits and tuber, ect. You have obviously never gone into the wild and tried to source roots and berries, This takes a tremendous amount of time and energy and these things arn't just in season and available ALL THE TIME. Sure you can go into store and buy watermelon year round now, but it doesn't work like that in the wild. It was a rare find. I myself was in the woods yesterday, there was a stream full of trout and I walked right up on a deer. I also noticed some wild muscadines. I found one single muscadine, two more i saw had already been eaten by something else. Hopefully you start to get the picture. Maybe if you actually looked at some of the diet compositions of these people(native american,eskimo, inuit, ect), you would understand that majority of the diet was meat and in some cases exclusively meat. When reading the book "The Fat of the Land", discovered the eskimo diet was in fact exclusively meat. Eskimo actually means eater of raw meat. Berries were available a few weeks during summer, interesting enough they weren't even eating berries untill the white men arrived. We've been eating meat for over 2 million years, we evolved on meat and fat, and it was the preferred food. In the book, Steffanson recalls vegetable matter eaten twice in his 10 year exploration of the Artic. Once in the form of tea leaves, and once in the form of moss. Both times the vegetation was soaked in whale oil. He also noted that one man refused the vegetable and drank his whale oil in a cup. This is a very eye opening book and I would recommend it to everyone. It shows through the medical supervision of a one year examination of Stefanson and his colleague Anderson on an exclusive meat diet, they were in very good health and their health actually improved during the year. Studies of the bone structures of the eskimos also show these people to be free of heart disease and other modern disease we get now for that matter. They had extremely healthy bones even though there was a lack of calcium.

          Sure you can run your body off any kind of junk you put in it, just take a look around you. I personally have two vegetarian roomates who eat loads of grains, fruits, vegetation, nuts, ect. and their health suffers obviously. If your eating 300 grams of carbohydrate a day and you feel it is the optimal the to run your body is on a plant based raw diet, perhaps you should leave the primal movement and join the raw foodist movement. They will welcome you with open arms. All these people want to talk about is living on a plant based diet, they don't want to hear about all of the dangers of glucose. And to get back on the original subject, fruit absolutely slows weight loss if it isn't restricted. I'm not saying it inhibits it, it drastically slows it and you would be better off avoiding it and most other carbohydrates for that matter. Why would I even want to eat something with fiber in it if my body can't even digest it? We don't have the enzymes to break down plant cellulose. We just don't have it, period. These are not personal opinons, these are scientific facts.

          I am talking about the optimal way to run the body, and its by avoiding glucose and glycation through the low carbohydrate diet. This is one of the basics of the primal blueprint, to eat a carbohydrate restricted diet. Mark certainly does not advocate eating 300 grams of carb a day, or 200, or 150 for that matter.


          "The Fat of the land" free ebook
          http://highsteaks.com/the-fat-of-the...stefansson.pdf

          Clinical study of Steffanson and Anderson
          Two Brave Men Who Ate Nothing But Meat for an Entire Year

          Great video on the imprtance of dietart fiber
          Dietary Fiber covered by Dr. Greg Ellis - YouTube

          Video on the dangers of glucose
          Glucose Binds to Your Body Proteins Forming Glycated Proteins - YouTube
          Glycation Causes Most Diseases by Dr. Greg Ellis - YouTube

          Much more information are available through Dr. Ellis's videos, blog, and books. And you'll see as Ellis explains, you may not be have too many problems now but as you age, you will age rapidly with disease. Hope this information helps you guys, I know this was absolutely life changing information for me. I was personally an obese child. Scaled in at 216 pounds at the ripe old age of 15. I now look better, feel better, and am now 18 years old at a healthy health of 165 pounds. I also have gained a fairly significant amount of muscle mass for the amount of time I have been training and eating a carbohydrate restricted diet. I should also note that my first experiment with the paleolithic diet was Loren Cordains extremely flawed version. I too ate around 300 grams of carbohydrate a day on this diet, mostly in the form of fruit and was absolutely terrified by fat. I still lost 20 pounds within 2 months, but then I hit the wall. I finished my weight loss with primal blueprint and Dr. Ellis's recommendations, I lost the weight more rapidly and gained muscle mass while doing it. None of which Loren Cordain could have helped me with because I wasn't told to restrict carbohydrates or calories for that matter. I personally consume about 60- 80 grams of carbohydrate a day in the form of raw milk. The rest of my caloric intake is filled by eggs from my local farmer and plenty of meat and fat!
          Last edited by BennettC; 08-30-2012, 09:15 AM.
          Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
          Before and after pics
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
          Primal Sucess Story
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
          Primal Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            I've been eating 2 entire watermelons a week for the past 2 months. If you're skipping out on fruit, I feel sorry for you.

            Fruit > oil.

            Fruit is a real, whole food. Oil is a man-made, processed food with ever-varying degrees of refinement and quality, and often from a questionable source (see: black market olive oil, varying quality of butter and environmental impacts of coconut and palm oil).

            I'm guessing few people have qualms using oil for cooking or salads. Fruit is superior to oil in pretty much every way, shape and form, yet it gets a bad rap. I'll never understand it. A much smarter way to judge your food is to compare nutrition-per-calorie, not carbohydrate content. I challenge you to compare the least nutritious fruits to the most nutritious oils on a calorie-per-calorie basis.
            Wow I really can't even begin to address this dumb and ignorant post. I will say that I stick to saturated animal fat. The only vegetable oil I use is coconut and sunflower on my skin. Yet again we have been consuming saturated animal fat for over 2 million years now. It is arguably more natural than the high sugar, genetically modified, "whole fruit" you are praising. I'll tell you like the rest of em, enjoy your glycated proteins.
            Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
            Before and after pics
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
            Primal Sucess Story
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
            Primal Journal
            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

            Comment


            • #36
              Using Steffason and the inuit as reasoning that an all meat diet is optimal. Lol.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by BennettC View Post
                Wow I really can't even begin to address this dumb and ignorant post. I will say that I stick to saturated animal fat. The only vegetable oil I use is coconut and sunflower on my skin. Yet again we have been consuming saturated animal fat for over 2 million years now. It is arguably more natural than the high sugar, genetically modified, "whole fruit" you are praising. I'll tell you like the rest of em, enjoy your glycated proteins.
                Easy there, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but there is a lot more to it.
                There are definately cultures who existed wholly on animal products for sustenance, but that doesnt mean it's what we actually evolved on, Australopithicas was 4 million years of our evolution and they were just little fella's and they were most likely gatherers and scavangers, one step away from chimps, the meat eating didn't really come seriously until we got to Homo Habilis, the tool maker, at about 2.4 mya, and then we progressed through stages to homosapiens. which is only the last 200,000 years and we oly left Africa somewhere between 100,000-70,000 ya.
                During most of this time our environment was mostly semi tropical, so it is likely that plant foods would have formed a significant part of our diet.
                The other factor you need to consider is we are genetically lazy, to conserve energy for when it is really required, so if fruits were available, then picking fruit was easier than chasing an antelope.
                Human gut flora is capable of digesting 98% of solouble fibre and up to 50% of insolouble fibre and contrary to what Dr Ellis says, they do not just form gas & toxic byproducts, they actually release Short Chain fatty acids which are absorbed by our intestine and provide a valuable contribution to our energy needs. There is an entire spectrum of diet choices, Vegan & Carnivore are the two extremes of human diet, but the healthiest position is likely somewhere in the middle.
                You have obviously come a long way in your process and found a good place for yourself, but don't fall into the trap of knowing everything, there will always be more to learn.
                "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Explain what is so funny about this? what information or studies to you have to offer?
                  Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                  Before and after pics
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                  Primal Sucess Story
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                  Primal Journal
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Omni View Post
                    Easy there, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but there is a lot more to it.
                    There are definately cultures who existed wholly on animal products for sustenance, but that doesnt mean it's what we actually evolved on, Australopithicas was 4 million years of our evolution and they were just little fella's and they were most likely gatherers and scavangers, one step away from chimps, the meat eating didn't really come seriously until we got to Homo Habilis, the tool maker, at about 2.4 mya, and then we progressed through stages to homosapiens. which is only the last 200,000 years and we oly left Africa somewhere between 100,000-70,000 ya.
                    During most of this time our environment was mostly semi tropical, so it is likely that plant foods would have formed a significant part of our diet.
                    The other factor you need to consider is we are genetically lazy, to conserve energy for when it is really required, so if fruits were available, then picking fruit was easier than chasing an antelope.
                    Human gut flora is capable of digesting 98% of solouble fibre and up to 50% of insolouble fibre and contrary to what Dr Ellis says, they do not just form gas & toxic byproducts, they actually release Short Chain fatty acids which are absorbed by our intestine and provide a valuable contribution to our energy needs. There is an entire spectrum of diet choices, Vegan & Carnivore are the two extremes of human diet, but the healthiest position is likely somewhere in the middle.
                    You have obviously come a long way in your process and found a good place for yourself, but don't fall into the trap of knowing everything, there will always be more to learn.
                    Thanks, I have thoroughly enjoy the educated debate. I myself am not a full out carnivore like say Charles Washington and his followers over at zero carb. I tried that diet and it simply just didnt work for me, not to mention it is much more expensive. I find I just do really well on dairy, and yes I had been off of it for a 3 month period and went back on with absolutely no problems. I also enjoy things that are available right now such as the muscadines and local tomatoes. These things are comfort foods that remind me of my childhood. My mimi had me eating tomatoes at a very early age lol. I eat these things only when they are in season and strive to base my diet around meat and fat. I also was very interested in improving my exercise performance this way and have had great results. I also would like to apologize if I came off as a know it all. I feel extremely passionate about this information and am trying to make sure other people hear these things. I also agree that in the early stages our diet including a higher percentage of vegetation and the adaption to eating a meat based diet had to have been very rough on our ancestors. As climates got colder and less vegetation was available they had no choice but to adapt.
                    Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                    Before and after pics
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                    Primal Sucess Story
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                    Primal Journal
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BennettC View Post
                      Thanks, I have thoroughly enjoy the educated debate. I myself am not a full out carnivore like say Charles Washington and his followers over at zero carb. I tried that diet and it simply just didnt work for me, not to mention it is much more expensive. I find I just do really well on dairy, and yes I had been off of it for a 3 month period and went back on with absolutely no problems. I also enjoy things that are available right now such as the muscadines and local tomatoes. These things are comfort foods that remind me of my childhood. My mimi had me eating tomatoes at a very early age lol. I eat these things only when they are in season and strive to base my diet around meat and fat. I also was very interested in improving my exercise performance this way and have had great results. I also would like to apologize if I came off as a know it all. I feel extremely passionate about this information and am trying to make sure other people hear these things. I also agree that in the early stages our diet including a higher percentage of vegetation and the adaption to eating a meat based diet had to have been very rough on our ancestors. As climates got colder and less vegetation was available they had no choice but to adapt.
                      I've been digging at this topic for quite a while and the deeper I go the more questions I unearth, it's all good fun.
                      "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BennettC View Post
                        Wow I really can't even begin to address this dumb and ignorant post. I will say that I stick to saturated animal fat. The only vegetable oil I use is coconut and sunflower on my skin. Yet again we have been consuming saturated animal fat for over 2 million years now. It is arguably more natural than the high sugar, genetically modified, "whole fruit" you are praising. I'll tell you like the rest of em, enjoy your glycated proteins.
                        Is this a joke? Human beings have been eating fruit a lot longer than ruminant meat, and oils are a fairly recent man-made creation. It's a foodlike product, not a whole food. Fruit is actual real food. But actually forming an argument would take effort, so I can understand why you chose not to.

                        Gotta love the extremists.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                          I'm a 5'4, 33 year old woman. I started eating low-fat paleo to deal with a neurological issue. I ate a TON of fruit daily - my typical breakfast was a huge bowl of fruit, basically as much as I could eat in a sitting. I also ate a lot of lean protein, cooked with no oil. Over a few months, I went from 120lbs to 106lbs eating so much fruit (but no grains or starches).

                          As soon as I cut out the fruit. lowered protein, and upped my fat content, I started packing on fat. It didn't take long to get right back to where I'd started out, which on paper seems okay, but since I'm a pear-shape, my belly and thighs really didn't look good.

                          Now, I may be a freak of nature, but I've never been able to lose more than a few pounds (likely water weight) using low carb. Low fat, for me, is the only thing that works.

                          So personally, I'd say add some fruit, and lower the fat a bit to compensate and see what happens. If what you're currently doing isn't working anymore, you've got nothing to lose by changing things up a bit - you can always go back if you want.


                          This is exactly what is happening to me. Why does this happen??? They say hit ketosis and the weight melts off!!! Not for me!!!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by kiwigal View Post
                            This is exactly what is happening to me. Why does this happen??? They say hit ketosis and the weight melts off!!! Not for me!!!
                            calories control everything. fat is much more calorie dense
                            Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                            Before and after pics
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                            Primal Sucess Story
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                            Primal Journal
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Owly View Post
                              Some of us can quite comfortably lose fat and eat fruit. It's not an either/or proposition for everyone.
                              Agreed.
                              I eat a lot of fruit also, and have been able to lose weight pretty easily.
                              But my activity level is quite high, and I don't know if I would be able to lose weight while eating fruit if I were sedentary.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by counterpuncher View Post
                                Agreed.
                                I eat a lot of fruit also, and have been able to lose weight pretty easily.
                                But my activity level is quite high, and I don't know if I would be able to lose weight while eating fruit if I were sedentary.
                                Sure you would if your calorie intake decreases in kind with your activity level. You can only lose weight if you take in less energy than you expend - you need a calorie deficit. Generally, exercise makes you hungrier and you eat more. If your hunger mechanism is reliable and you eat with your stomach and not your eyes, your food intake should decrease. The problem is people get used to making a certain quantity of food for themselves, then something happens and we become less active but we still serve ourselves the same portion because we're just used to doing it. We eat with our eyes - you probably bring a container of food to work every day for lunch. If your activity level drops, will you decrease the container size? Most won't out of habit. When I take time off from the gym I have to make a conscious effort to put less food into my stomach. I'm so used to eating the same things over and over again it takes real effort to break the habit of scooping the same portions on my plate.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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