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EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

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  • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    If it's any consolation, I used to hate fat. The texture, the idea, etc. Luckily for me, it was a learned dislike. My parents had taught me it was bad, and once I learned otherwise I was able to rehab my taste buds. At first it was just nuts and avocado and fish. Slowly I added in cooking oils, and fatty steaks and bacon, and today I could probably scarf down a jiggling mound of most any (most, not just ANY) fat. I still can't stand a bare spoonful of coconut oil.
    I hope things change for me and I can eat fat without gagging. If I chew and swallow really fast I can do fattier bacon now than I could 2 months ago when I started the Primal WOE. Cooking oils and fats I have no issue with, neither distributed fat in say, steak (liquid or small streaks), but big chunks...ew. Not happenin'. I'm open to this changing, but so far I still don't like it. An upside is that I brush my teeth a lot more now.
    5' 9" 47 YO F
    PB start June 2, 2012
    Pre PB SW = 180 (no scale at home, Mom's scale January - 153lbs!)
    Current deadlift 245 lbs, squat 165 lbs, bench press 135 lbs


    PB Journal

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    • Well yeah I'd agree -- but maybe 30g of carbs wasn't sufficiently low to put them all in ketosis. I mean n=1, right? ; p
      As I understand it, the general advice for getting into ketosis is <20.
      Oh, my lord, that's cruel. I mean, 30 means you count celery sticks and spinach leaves, 20 g with low protein too is really living off the coconut oil.
      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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      • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        It lasted only 6 weeks. And I don't see anywhere where it says in the abstract what calories they were required to eat.

        Also, we've been discussing way more than just how much weight we lose. We've been talking about the energy we feel, the mental acuity we have, the physical stamina for aerobic exercise (and if we haven't said anything like that, let me tell you I just went jogging for the first time in months and felt incredible, absolute unlimited energy, and at noon in the hot sun before I had my breakfast). Or how about the feelings of well-being many of us have, the steady-state mood, the tendency to smile more and feel kinder toward others, less grouchy. Or what about not having any seizuIres? Or the freedom from cravings and the flexibility to miss a meal unexpectedly and not freak out or white-knuckle through it until we can get to some food. These things are important, too.

        This is not just about weight loss or who can lose the most weight the fastest. This is about feeling great and if needed, losing weight without suffering.
        Not all of us need to be in full-on ketosis for a lot of those benefits, though. Fat-adapted/metabolically flexible, yes, but not necessarily all-out keto.
        If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive. --Audre Lorde

        Owly's Journal

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        • My n=1, so far, I have lost more weight on higher calories (very top of my range) and higher carbs, lower fats, moderate protein. Like 200+ (net carbs was probably more like 150) But I was coming off of SAD, so anything was going to be an improvement. I like being fuller on less now - fewer calories, fewer carbs but my protein is higher than this ketosis thread is suggesting, so I am willing to give it a go.

          But my question to that study, is how close is everyone being apples to apples? I have read men might lose more/faster than women, I have read it is easier when you start & have lots to lose (like my experience) and I have read as you get closer to goal it is harder to lose. So I just wonder what kind of a playing field everyone was on when they started.

          It just seems to me that it would be hard to compare apples to apples, even in a controlled study. I know my n=1, there are just so many variables even when I try to pin point something. I try to change just one thing at a time, but try as I may, there always seems to be another factor to consider.

          But maybe that isn't important in a study like this, I don't know but seems like it would make some difference. I didnt read the study, so maybe that was outlined.
          Last edited by gopintos; 08-29-2012, 01:46 PM.
          65lbs gone and counting!!

          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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          • [QUOTE=sbhikes;940618

            This is not just about weight loss or who can lose the most weight the fastest. This is about feeling great and if needed, losing weight without suffering.[/QUOTE]

            This is how I feel too! Even clearer than before when I went paleo. The energy and freedom from cravings is awesome. It is difficult for me to get enough food and limit the protein though. I am re reading Nora Gedgaudas as well to get more insight.

            I also can feel my body composition changing. I am definitely retaining more muscle. I am wearing clothes that only fit me at 135 before and I am at 150 and I have a lot more definition than I had. I don't look emaciated like I did when I initially lost most of my weight. I am much warmer as well.

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            • I obviously can't quote!!! Sorry!!!

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              • Originally posted by June68 View Post
                I hope things change for me and I can eat fat without gagging.
                I'm the same way... can't stand the chunks of fat on the edge of steak, or strips of fat on, say, procuttio [sp?].
                You'll get used to the greasy fat on your lips, but as for spongy fat that your teeth cant break up... nope. Ground beef and chicken thighs are a good place to start.

                I don't quite understand ketosis and don't feel the need to be there.
                5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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                • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                  But my question to that study, is how close is everyone being apples to apples? I have read men might lose more/faster than women, I have read it is easier when you start & have lots to lose (like my experience) and I have read as you get closer to goal it is harder to lose. So I just wonder what kind of a playing field everyone was on when they started.
                  Participants (n = 20) were stratified by age, sex, and BMI and randomly assigned to 1 of 2 experimental diets: the ketogenic LC (KLC) diet or the low-fat, nonketogenic LC (NLC) diet.

                  During the 6-wk feeding trial, all food and beverages were provided to participants, who remained sedentary. Hot lunches were prepared and served to participants Monday through Friday at the test site. Breakfast, dinner, and weekend meals were prepared and packaged for participants to take home. After the 6-wk trial, participants were instructed to continue following their diet plan (KLC or NLC) on their own for 4 wk. A registered dietitian discussed the diet details with each participant and provided daily meal plans and recipes for these 4 wk.

                  This is pretty well designed; short of being a ward based study. It also would have been nice to have a washout period followed by a crossover.

                  More-so than weight loss, the part that should be seriously considered by those wanting to "just go Keto" is this written by the research team...

                  "...because ketogenic diets have been associated with adverse metabolic events including elevated LDL and cardiac complications."

                  CITES
                  Larosa JC, Fry AG, Muesing R, Rosing DR. Effects of high-protein, low-carbohydrate dieting on plasma lipoproteins and body weight. J Am Diet Assoc 1980;77:264–70.
                  Best TH, Franz DN, Gilbert DL, Nelson DP, Epstein MR. Cardiac complications in pediatric patients on the ketogenic diet. Neurology 2000;54:2328–30
                  Stevens A, Robinson DP, Turpin J, Groshong T, Tobias JK. Sudden cardiac death of an adolescent during dieting. South Med J 2002;95:1047–9.
                  Last edited by StackingPlates; 08-29-2012, 02:01 PM.
                  http://stackingplates.com/

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                  • I think I will start with the unlimied non-starchy veggies and up to 1/2 cup of blueberries a day, no carb-ups kindda plan, and see if I can stay in the no artificial hunger state without having to limit veggie intake to 4 oz of cabbage and 2 cups of spinach (I calculated it for today, and that amount of veggies took me to the sky-high 24 g of carbs).
                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                    Comment


                    • Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?
                        Right on girl!
                        SBF% 20.5
                        CBF% 20.0
                        Goal....14%

                        Muscle weighs more than fat and scales are evil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?
                          wow---amen! +1!
                          Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
                          http://thewoodsygal.com/

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                          • My Gawd, they are right! Ketogenic diets are bad and will kill you--many studies prove it:

                            Atkins Diet can increase cancer risk : The Canadian National Newspaper

                            "...High protein diet gurus usually claim they know the truth and that all other doctors and scientists are wrong. They promote the idea that their recommended diet is healthy. They would have their devotees believe there is a worldwide conspiracy, including more than 3,500 scientific studies, involving more than 15,000 research scientists, reporting a relationship between the consumption of meats, poultry, eggs, and dairy products, with heart disease, cancer, kidney failure, constipation, gallstones, diverticulosis, and hemorrhoids, just to name a few...

                            ...These Atkins side effects and dangers and other high protein diets have to be considered, within the context of the results obtainable with my Eat To Live program, an approach designed to reverse heart disease as one dramatically loses weight."

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                            • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                              My Gawd, they are right! Ketogenic diets are bad and will kill you--many studies prove it:

                              Atkins Diet can increase cancer risk : The Canadian National Newspaper

                              "...High protein diet gurus usually claim they know the truth and that all other doctors and scientists are wrong. They promote the idea that their recommended diet is healthy. They would have their devotees believe there is a worldwide conspiracy, including more than 3,500 scientific studies, involving more than 15,000 research scientists, reporting a relationship between the consumption of meats, poultry, eggs, and dairy products, with heart disease, cancer, kidney failure, constipation, gallstones, diverticulosis, and hemorrhoids, just to name a few...

                              ...These Atkins side effects and dangers and other high protein diets have to be considered, within the context of the results obtainable with my Eat To Live program, an approach designed to reverse heart disease as one dramatically loses weight."
                              A relationship? Ooh, how definitive! We all know how valuable those associative studies are. And that list of ailments? How are those not the ailments of people on the standard American diet?
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • OK, I'm back on board with ketosis

                                N=20, 6 weeks, completely different outcome than study posted by Stacking Dishes

                                A Ketogenic Diet Favorably Affects Serum Biomarkers for Cardiovascular Disease in Normal-Weight Men

                                CONCLUSION: Numerous studies now suggest that high-carbohydrate diets can raise TAG levels, create small, dense LDL particles, and reduce HDL cholesterol (i.e., atherogenic dyslipidemia)a combination along with insulin resistance, that has been termed syndrome X (42,43). Syndrome X is postulated to be resistance to insulin-mediated glucose disposal by muscle (44), 30% of adult males and 10% to 15% of postmenopausal women have this particular syndrome X profile, which is associated with several-fold increase in heart disease risk. Replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate appears to accentuate insulin concentrations and the atherogenic dyslipidemia associated with syndrome X (44,45). The ketogenic diet in this study resulted in favorable responses in fasting TAG, postprandial lipemia, HDL-C, LDL particle size, and insulin levels in healthy normolipidemic men. Although the duration of the diet was short (6 wk), these data suggest that a ketogenic diet does not have an adverse effect on accepted biochemical risk factors for CVD and improves those associated with syndrome X.

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