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  • #91
    i sort of miss sweet potato fries, but not enough to jeopardize my steady weight loss
    Have you ever tried eggplant or zucchini made into fires?

    Sounds like you need to really commit to a complete extraction of your sweet tooth by staying in keto for at least three weeks solid.
    I did 40 days, and that's when depression hit me. I am wondering if I can try to fake it till I make it. But every time I handle fruit for my folks, it's like a torture.

    Is quark/soft home-made cheese Okay for staying in ketosis or is it no dairy? Here is nutrinfo on non-fat version. I assume that from full-fat milk, it will just be more calories from fat:

    Calories: 70 calories
    Fat: 0 g
    Cholesterol: 5 mg
    Sodium: 70 mg
    Carbs: 4 g
    Protein: 13 g
    Last edited by Leida; 08-29-2012, 12:28 PM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #92
      THANK YOU, PALEOBIRD!!!! for starting this thread. I have been trying to transition to this higher fat, moderate protein and low carb thing for the past 2 weeks. Its going great - I lost 3 pounds last week! and I'm feeling much more energetic. This thread cleared up a few of my questions and answered a few I didn't know I had!

      After looking back over my logs I have not quite got to the target I have set for myself - but now that I have a clear understanding I have adjusted my macro goals accordingly! I expect to see the weight dropping!

      Thanks for all your great input!
      1. Love ME no matter what noises are screaming at me, or who is trying to tear me down.
      2. Eat to heal
      3. Move to live
      4. Embrace today
      5. Live with intention
      6. Respect my body
      7. Cultivate joy
      8. Find my passion
      9. Meditate on peace in my soul

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Leida View Post
        Salmon, on another hand is my weapon of choice. I can eat salmon by the pound. I make salmon head soup, and eat the fatty parts from the head.

        I always loved liver, but I do not interpret it as fatty, not sure why.
        Salmon is a staple in my house. Liver is fatty for me because I usually eat it as pate' which has a lot of cream and butter in the mix.

        Originally posted by Lewis View Post
        Two hour (!) interview of Steve Phinney by .... Jimmy 85% fat Moore:
        23: Long-Term Stalls & Weight Gain Even On A Well-Formulated Low-Carb Diet | Dr. Stephen Phinney | Jimmy Moore Presents: Ask The Low-Carb Experts
        Dr. Jay Wortman's interest in traditional First Nations diets.)

        The "safe starches" thing can be put on one side -- inasmuch as while it upsets a lot of people in the paleosphere, it's going against "official paleo" anyway. But official paleo is still fairly high-fruit friendly and is high rather than moderate protein. Professor Cordain's figures on protein suggest anything up to about 30% of total calories as protein (and up to 40% carbs). (That's based on calculations and estimates based on reported animal and plant food ratios in the diets of contemporary hunter-gatherers.)
        Thanks for the links, Lewis. Yes the whole safe starch thing is all well and good if you are describing foods that you can live off of without causing harm to your body (as long as it is already functioning optimally). Notice how all the safe starch proponents tend to be younger fit and male and have never been anything else?

        The problem about basing anything on data from modern HGs is that, as pointed out on Archevore, they are people living on the margins of where and how to survive. Generalizing from them is iffy at best.

        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        Wow, I feel fantastic. I really did turn the corner. It took about two weeks. It's almost noon and I haven't had my breakfast yet. Just coffee with cream and some bone broth. I feel energetic, laser-focused, strong as an ox and I'm thinking I might go running and have my breakfast after that.

        Seriously why on earth did I ever listen to all that "eat more potatoes" nonsense?? It totally took away all the amazing stuff I got when I first went down this whole paleo path. And like a frog in a pot of boiling water, I didn't even notice it happening.
        Yay!!!

        Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
        Yes, Marks' recent post about insulin resistance calms my mind about staying keto. If all my micronutrient needs are being met, and I feel great, and my thyroid is happy, etc., I have no reason to need sweet potatoes. Though I do know it helps my abs pop out. Maybe the glycogen load actually makes muscles bigger? Health over looking good, though. I'd rather feel good than look like a carved statue and feel dizzy.
        The glycogen load makes for water retention in the muscles. Puffiness.

        Originally posted by quelsen View Post
        i sort of miss sweet potato fries, but not enough to jeopardize my steady weight loss
        Amen.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Leida View Post
          Have you ever tried eggplant or zucchini made into fires?



          I did 40 days, and that's when depression hit me. I am wondering if I can try to fake it till I make it. But every time I handle fruit for my folks, it's like a torture.

          Is quark/soft home-made cheese Okay for staying in ketosis or is it no dairy? Here is nutrinfo on non-fat version. I assume that from full-fat milk, it will just be more calories from fat:

          Calories: 70 calories
          Fat: 0 g
          Cholesterol: 5 mg
          Sodium: 70 mg
          Carbs: 4 g
          Protein: 13 g
          Go for the highest fat dairy you can find. A sip of raw HWC will help turn off the fruit attack alarm.

          Comment


          • #95
            So, if I add cream (say the Double Cream even) to quark like the Germans do, it should be good? I just prefer quark because I make it myself as opposite to cheese someone else makes?
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              If the question is what works while making you feel invincible, the answer is ketosis.
              Except it isn't.

              In a study done by Johnston et al, participants were randomly divided into two groups and assigned to either a ketogenic low carb (KLC) or non-ketogenic low carb (NLC) diet. Intakes were strictly controlled (all food was provided by the lab which is a rarity in these types of studies), as was activity to ensure that any effects were dietary driven.

              The NLC group not only collectively lost more weight but the KLC diet group actually had a subject drop out due to a heart arrhythmia. It could be coincidental but the group as a whole also had increased inflammatory markers across the board as compared to the NLC group. The NLC group was also scored subjectively higher in emotion, mood state, and energy levels. What made this even more remarkable is that the NLC group even had slightly lower PRO intake which makes these results more impressive in my opinion since PRO intake is normally the great equalizer

              CITES
              Johnstone CS, et al. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 May:83(5):1055-61
              http://stackingplates.com/

              Comment


              • #97
                Interestingly, I haven't needed to be full-on keto to stay metabolically flexible, but I don't eat excess carbs either. I think you can avoid becoming sugar dependent if you have a healthy metabolism that can handle carbs without setting off binging or other issues *and* you do not regularly consume carbs beyond what will replenish glycogen stores (so that you don't begin to burn sugar preferentially to clear the excess from circulation). Doing this seems to allow me to use fat as fuel when needed while still eating moderate quantities of carbohydrates.
                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                Owly's Journal

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
                  Except it isn't.

                  In a study done by Johnston et al, participants were randomly divided into two groups and assigned to either a ketogenic low carb (KLC) or non-ketogenic low carb (NLC) diet. Intakes were strictly controlled (all food was provided by the lab which is a rarity in these types of studies), as was activity to ensure that any effects were dietary driven.

                  The NLC group not only collectively lost more weight but the KLC diet group actually had a subject drop out due to a heart arrhythmia. It could be coincidental but the group as a whole also had increased inflammatory markers across the board as compared to the NLC group. The NLC group was also scored subjectively higher in emotion, mood state, and energy levels. What made this even more remarkable is that the NLC group even had slightly lower PRO intake which makes these results more impressive in my opinion since PRO intake is normally the great equalizer

                  CITES
                  Johnstone CS, et al. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 May:83(5):1055-61
                  But it's not necessarily the case that the participants on the KLC were actually in ketosis, and that the NLC participants stayed out of ketosis, right?

                  ETA:
                  And is 40% really 'low-carb' ?
                  Last edited by sjmc; 08-29-2012, 12:48 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    The problem about basing anything on data from modern HGs is that, as pointed out on Archevore, they are people living on the margins of where and how to survive. Generalizing from them is iffy at best.
                    Actually, I think I made the same point about modern hunter-gatherers and marginal land here on this board a long time ago and before "archevore" did on his site. But i don't bother with his site any more. I'm surprised you do since you seem a full-blown keto-girl and, AFAIK, he's gone carb-monster. :-)

                    As for Cordain, I think he was using what means he had, and obviously there are, and he was aware that there were, a number of assumptions embedded in that. Maybe it was a useful exercise anyway? I wouldn't eat 30% protein, but I'm not going to knock him for trying to get a figure.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Leida View Post
                      June, I am very much in the same boat. I gradually learned to increase fat intake over the 2 years. Pork and bacon... I still can't stand it on most occasions. So I just don't eat it.

                      Salmon, on another hand is my weapon of choice. I can eat salmon by the pound. I make salmon head soup, and eat the fatty parts from the head.

                      I won't eat avocado on its own, but I put a quarter of it in a green smoothie/gazpacho. Then I just taste light creaminess not the overwhelming fat content.

                      There is one recipe I like with butter, and that's brown butter zucchini with some nut thrown in and on wild mushrooms.

                      I also found that I love dry roasted chicken, while other types of cooking chicken in skin make me gag. Dry roasted, crispy skin with no added fat is pretty palatable.

                      I always loved liver, but I do not interpret it as fatty, not sure why.

                      With coconut, chilled milk, I got used to it, and chopped creamed coconut tastes like candy to me now that no sweet flavors are allowed. Salt on coconut oil makes it palatable. And, well, hunger is a good spice too. I now use coconut oil to miss lunches. Very good for figuring out if you are really hungry or not.

                      Luckily, I have never had problems with cheese, but it will take some trying to eat full-fat quark instead of skim milk quark, not sure I can take it.
                      Leida, are your taste buds typical of Russians? I find that my boyfriend has the exact same taste preferences, and was wondering if it was a cultural thing.
                      My chocolatey Primal journey

                      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                      • Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                        But it's not necessarily the case that the participants on the KLC were actually in ketosis, and that the NLC participants stayed out of ketosis, right?

                        ETA:
                        And is 40% really 'low-carb' ?
                        No, the KLC group was designed to be in ketosis for the duration of the study (~30G/CHOs daily).

                        The NLC group consumed ~150G/CHOs which would still be within Primal Blueprint recommendations. Although, the fact that the higher CHO group lost more weight and had better subjective/objective markers must be even more frustrating to staunch Keto/VLC advocates.
                        http://stackingplates.com/

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
                          No, the KLC group was designed to be in ketosis for the duration of the study (~30G/CHOs daily).

                          The NLC group consumed ~150G/CHOs which would still be within Primal Blueprint recommendations. Although, the fact that the higher CHO group lost more weight and had better subjective/objective markers must be even more frustrating to staunch Keto/VLC advocates.
                          Well yeah I'd agree -- but maybe 30g of carbs wasn't sufficiently low to put them all in ketosis. I mean n=1, right? ; p
                          As I understand it, the general advice for getting into ketosis is <20.

                          Comment


                          • Did this study last a few months, or closer to a year?
                            Crohn's, doing SCD

                            Comment


                            • It lasted only 6 weeks. And I don't see anywhere where it says in the abstract what calories they were required to eat.

                              Also, we've been discussing way more than just how much weight we lose. We've been talking about the energy we feel, the mental acuity we have, the physical stamina for aerobic exercise (and if we haven't said anything like that, let me tell you I just went jogging for the first time in months and felt incredible, absolute unlimited energy, and at noon in the hot sun before I had my breakfast). Or how about the feelings of well-being many of us have, the steady-state mood, the tendency to smile more and feel kinder toward others, less grouchy. Or what about not having any seizures? Or the freedom from cravings and the flexibility to miss a meal unexpectedly and not freak out or white-knuckle through it until we can get to some food. These things are important, too.

                              This is not just about weight loss or who can lose the most weight the fastest. This is about feeling great and if needed, losing weight without suffering.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • Leida, are your taste buds typical of Russians? I find that my boyfriend has the exact same taste preferences, and was wondering if it was a cultural thing.
                                I have no idea Maybe we are of a similar age and similar area and ate similar foods when growing up. I guess we do not have the same squeamishness when it comes to using the whole animal & foraging the forest for whatever it yields (like I found the fear with which my co-workers treated a gorgeous red cap bolet mushroom I picked in a pristine forest when we were on the field trip hilarious), so the eyeball in the salmon head doesn't stand in the way of enjoying it, and stuff.

                                With pork, I think it is probably my personal thing, though I admit to loving holodetz (which is an ultimate bone broth made from pork feet, hocks etc that is allowed to set to be solid, LOL!), and most Russian probably would, while my Canadian husband took a bite and was out for life from eating it. Now when I make a dish, I keep it frozen, cutting a piece at a time because nobody could possibly eat a whole holodetz. Lol. Maybe Knifegill can!
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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