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EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

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  • I too have dropped 5 pounds since starting more of these suggestions...back to 130 this morning! Moar fat! But also...more broths, less bacon....cut out the chocolate and caffeine. Still eating nuts---but healthier choices like walnuts instead of cashews!
    Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
    http://thewoodsygal.com/

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    • I'm not exactly pushing fat, but I am on the lower carb route that I mentioned in my post earlier, and continue to add a bit of fat to my diet to meet daily caloric needs due to low appetite and my normal 'one meal a day' style of eating.

      It continues to help my brain function stay on track which pleases me immensely (and is mostly the point of this), though weight is not dropping off like flies... not what I'm expecting anyway.
      I really have come to prefer the "slow and steady" route I think.

      I did pee on a keto-strip out of curiosity today and it showed between low and low-moderate or some such... fine with me.
      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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      • Cori---mine has been really slow! But I like that...it feels more permanent this way!
        Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
        http://thewoodsygal.com/

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        • Man, this brings back memoriies! I lost about 40lbs on low carb. I plateaued for about 6 months until I decided to go extreme. I ate NOTHING but meat, fish, eggs and cheese/heavy cream for the next month and I lost 20 more pounds. Finally, I started adding the veggies back in and I stayed stable at that weight and body fat It was a bit extreme, but I'm hard headed like that and I wanted to defeat the fat, haha. Everyone here is making amazing progress and it feels so good to be a part of such a community

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          • Well, it's very early on, but this approach seems to be working for me. It's actually quite comforting because I am not a huge meat eater so it's easy for me to limit my protein and I am doing fine on the lower carb number. Fat is mostly the stuff I like best (other than starchy salty greasy carbs like potato chips and french fries which are obvs off the table). I'm down a pound this morning and feel leaner. Good stuff! My decision is to follow this macro approach for 30 days and see where that gets me. Thanks all for the great ideas!

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            • WOW just finished this thread after two days of mainlining it at work. So much great information and discussion.

              I'm happy to give this a roll to see if it budges my long fat-loss stall, but I'm a little concerned about a couple things. First, I work out a lot and don't want to lower my workout volume because I like it. I have a feeling that my endomorphic bod, after an adjustment period, is going to be perfectly happy switching to fat-burning; but I don't want my strength gains to suffer with lower protein intake. Anyone have any experience with high exercise volume and high fat/low carb/mod protein/1500-ish cals?

              Second, I'm accustomed to a cheat day once a week (am incredibly strict the other 6 days). I've been dieting and body-hacking for so long without results that I'm at the point where I really don't care to adhere 100% to any plan. But maintaining ketosis seems like something different, where if I do a cheat day once a week, it'll knock me out of ketosis and the whole thing will be a waste. Can anyone shed any light on this? Should I give it a longer period at first to get myself into ketosis, and then do a cheat day once a week? I just know myself and I know I'm never going to stop wanting my weekly beer/taco/ice cream (I don't go insane on calories--I keep cheat portions very small--but my carbs are certainly over 150g on cheat days).

              Lastly, I made Paleobird's pate from chicken livers, and have been spreading it on Fat Bread for breakfast--my new favorite thing! So awesome!

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              • Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                WOW just finished this thread after two days of mainlining it at work. So much great information and discussion.

                I'm happy to give this a roll to see if it budges my long fat-loss stall, but I'm a little concerned about a couple things. First, I work out a lot and don't want to lower my workout volume because I like it. I have a feeling that my endomorphic bod, after an adjustment period, is going to be perfectly happy switching to fat-burning; but I don't want my strength gains to suffer with lower protein intake. Anyone have any experience with high exercise volume and high fat/low carb/mod protein/1500-ish cals?

                Second, I'm accustomed to a cheat day once a week (am incredibly strict the other 6 days). I've been dieting and body-hacking for so long without results that I'm at the point where I really don't care to adhere 100% to any plan. But maintaining ketosis seems like something different, where if I do a cheat day once a week, it'll knock me out of ketosis and the whole thing will be a waste. Can anyone shed any light on this? Should I give it a longer period at first to get myself into ketosis, and then do a cheat day once a week? I just know myself and I know I'm never going to stop wanting my weekly beer/taco/ice cream (I don't go insane on calories--I keep cheat portions very small--but my carbs are certainly over 150g on cheat days).

                Lastly, I made Paleobird's pate from chicken livers, and have been spreading it on Fat Bread for breakfast--my new favorite thing! So awesome!
                I wouldn't doubt your issues are coming from that "cheat day". I don’t know your whole story, but it also sounds like you're under eating appropriate foods, possibly over-exercising and then derailing your grain-free efforts with a cheat day. If I combine grains and fats in my diet, I get…well, bigger.

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                • I wouldn't doubt your issues are coming from that "cheat day". I don’t know your whole story, but it also sounds like you're under eating appropriate foods, possibly over-exercising and then derailing your grain-free efforts with a cheat day. If I combine grains and fats in my diet, I get…well, bigger.
                  Nope. Read the thread I started the other day (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread67334.html). I've gone months eating 100% clean with no effect, and I've been Primal a long time so I have a wide base of experimentation with different diet tweaks and workout styles. I have a cheat day because I found after lots and lots of trial and error that a cheat day a week has no effect on me. And I'm exercising a lot right now because I've found it's the only thing that budges my fat-loss stall (and because I really do like it).

                  I did some research and it sounds like what I'm talking about is a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. I've actually had some meager success with carb cycling in the past. Has anyone else done the CKD? 6 days of VLC, one day of carb-up?

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                  • I can't personally address the effect on exercise volume or quality, as my own exercise is (badly) affected by my work schedule (it's "dynamic"). However, I have been consciously trying to adhere to a diet which will keep me in nutritional ketosis - and if you are interested in this, I strongly recommend both of the Phinney and Volek books. The first is more explanatory of the entire phenomenon, and the second focuses on athletic performance. In addition, Peter Attia reports that, after a transition period, his workouts are not affected in the intensity he can deliver, though the energy source for that has shifted markedly (see his personal transformation series).

                    Due to discussions in the family and my own experience, I'm simply using the urine test strips rather than a blood meter (with expensive strips) to track ketosis. As a first point, I agree with Paleobird that I can tell from a sense of physical well being and energy stability both when I'm in it, and, at a very coarse level, how much I am in it. I did have a semi-cheat day last Wed, having a lunch at a local restaurant with family while we discussed some pending matters. I had a large Cobb salad and cup of tomato basil soup (quite creamy) - and my ketones on the strip dropped from strong (~80) right down to small (~15) and took about 48 hours to recover.

                    So that to me tends to indicate that a carby cheat day would set me back a lot - but YMMV always applies. I would find a way to measure your ketosis, and then experiment. P&V report that in their clinical experience, it takes ~2 weeks for the body to begin producing ketones, although obviously you will burn fat when there's no glucose in the neighborhood. I would anticipate you'd go right back to burning fat after handling the glucose load from your cheat, but ketone production would probably never really kick in if you cheat once per week. Only you can find out how your body will respond, though.

                    And I'd be curious to see what happens - do let us know.

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                    • Hi all -I'm fairly new to attempting to be in ketosis, and I love this approach. I had a couple of questions i'm hoping someone might be able to help with. First is with regard to protein. I had a special paleo dinner party cooked by some people yesterday that happened to have loads of protein and not as much fat available, so my protein for the day went pretty high, like 150 grams (with around 62-28-10). Based on my HSIS numbers from further up, I'm trying to shoot for around 1500 calories with 70-20-10 percentage ratios of fat-protein-carbs, with about 60 grams as my protein ceiling and around 30 grams for carbs, with the rest from fat. I'm wondering whether an abnormally high protein day will have a negative effect on ketosis like an abnormally high carb day might. Obviously there's nothing to do about it at this point, but I'm curious for the future.

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                      • Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                        Nope. Read the thread I started the other day (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread67334.html). I've gone months eating 100% clean with no effect, and I've been Primal a long time so I have a wide base of experimentation with different diet tweaks and workout styles. I have a cheat day because I found after lots and lots of trial and error that a cheat day a week has no effect on me. And I'm exercising a lot right now because I've found it's the only thing that budges my fat-loss stall (and because I really do like it).

                        I did some research and it sounds like what I'm talking about is a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. I've actually had some meager success with carb cycling in the past. Has anyone else done the CKD? 6 days of VLC, one day of carb-up?
                        Hey Heatseeker! This is what I currently do. I am like you and have to have my wine at least once every 8 to 10 days or I just can't stick. I looove sushi and also the thought of going a long time without it makes me sad. So I adopted a modified CKD. When I go VLC for 6 days and then have my sushi and wine as my end of week cheat. I eat as much sushi and rice to my heart's content and by Sunday I am normally back in Ketosis. So far so good. I am still losing continuously and now wear a size 4 top which when I started was more a size 8. Anywho, for me personally, it is definitely doable.

                        As long as you were in ketosis for an extended period, carbing up on a meal or even day will only kick you out for 1-2 days. This is my n=1 (caveat)

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                        • When I go VLC for 6 days and then have my sushi and wine as my end of week cheat. I eat as much sushi and rice to my heart's content and by Sunday I am normally back in Ketosis.
                          Awesome. Obviously my mileage may vary, but it's good to know that some people have success with this. And yeah, my cheat day foods are actually not insane junk food; usually it's sushi, tacos (corn tortillas), full-fat gelato, some wine or beer. I'm lucky in that I wasn't raised on processed food and really don't like it. But for sanity's sake and for workout performance's sake, I really need a carby day once a week.

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                          • Okay, I stuck for about 30 days, but I carbed up this weekend. The low level fatigue & slightly sick feeling never went away on high fat low carb, and the food restrictions in addition to the low volume of food are not easy to handle. It felt like eating 'substances' all the time, rather than food (in other words, butter, coconut oil, cocnut milk). It was very easy to overeat because and my weight loss quickly stalls after the water weight dropped. It did not help that I was sick and had to start eating yogurt after surgery that is a no-no, but the dairy & not being able to train for a week did the trick, and the weight came right back up. The weight lifting performance dropped significantly at the same body weight. In the beginning the DOMS were hard to handle but it went away after about 2 weeks.

                            Sustained ketosis doesn't change the hunger, but changes the nature of hunger. Instead of an intense hunger pangs and distracted state on a higher protein/lower fat diet you get accumulating fatigue and a lethargy. Both states are easier to handle than the insane high carb grain fueled hunger when you are really and truly collapsing and go mental.

                            After the carb up, I feel more like a human and more energetic (hey, I am also recovering). All and all, I think carb down/carb up cycle is easier to handle than the sustained ketosis, but a sustained ketosis is something I will use as a solution when I am trying to hold a lost weight in conjunction with non-performance improving workout schedule.

                            Thank you for coaching me through the sustained ketosis, I will put it as another tool into my toolbox.

                            Right now I will concentrate on running UD2.0 until I can finally drop the summer fat layer and then try sustained ketosis to hold the low point.
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                            • Holy eff, this is hard! How do you guys not OD on protein?! I only had one small portion of meat today and my protein is 15g over my goal.

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                              • Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                                Holy eff, this is hard! How do you guys not OD on protein?! I only had one small portion of meat today and my protein is 15g over my goal.
                                That doesn't sound right. Are you measuring actual protein grams, or the total weight of your protein food? Big difference.
                                I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.

                                Oscar Wilde

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