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EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

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  • what do you define as a lot of water? the only morning i felt heaps better was when i had been out and drank prob a whole liter of water on my own. i've been trying to have a glass of water by my desk all day to make sure i keep drinking but it is hard. it's not a habit i have anymore.

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    • Happy days - it's the second day that I've had most of my pre-dinner intake from coconut oil in drinks. OMG - I finally had my first cup of stock. What a difference! I added CO to it, to keep the fat intake up, but as soon as I got a whiff of the salt I was smitten. My energy was getting lower, but this boosted me right back up. Phinney and Volek recommend a couple of cups a day of this stuff, and I'm totally on board with it!
      Started Feb 18 2011

      Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

      Journalling here

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      • i am going to try to get some free range pork bones when i am in town next as i can drink pork broth. i am sorta so so about the other types. what type of stock did you have Jac? when you say added CO, did you just add a spoon so it melted on top?

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        • Originally posted by seaweed View Post
          i am going to try to get some free range pork bones when i am in town next as i can drink pork broth. i am sorta so so about the other types. what type of stock did you have Jac? when you say added CO, did you just add a spoon so it melted on top?
          I'm using vegeta commercial stock - it does have some nasties in it, so I'll try making my own this weekend. I didn't credit the difference some serious salt intake would make, so I put off making it. Dumb mistake!! Phinney and Volek recommend 2 stock cubes a day dissolved in hot water, and I'm following their recommendations now.

          Yes, I added probably 2 teaspoons of coconut oil to it, and just kept stirring as I drank. I think butter would probably taste better, but I can't do dairy.

          Seaweed, your post reminded me of how I felt last week (zone of misery, indeed). I persisted until my energy and mood were so low I thought I was getting depressed again. Paying more attention to the science of what I want to do has pulled me out of it over the last 2 days. Hang in there!
          Started Feb 18 2011

          Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

          Journalling here

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          • ooh i have some rapunzel vege bouillion powder! i googled and it is zero carb and 40% sodium. i could drink that until i get some bones.

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            • Originally posted by seaweed View Post
              ooh i have some rapunzel vege bouillion powder! i googled and it is zero carb and 40% sodium. i could drink that until i get some bones.
              I just searched my kindle to find the specific recommendations from Phinney and Volek. It's

              "Practically speaking, the easiest way to get this sodium is to buy standard bouillon cubes and consume 2 per day. They are cheap, compact, last months without refrigeration, and hot water is easily found. A more traditional path is to make your own meat or vegetable broth containing 1 teaspoon of salt per quart."

              I'll be getting into that!
              Started Feb 18 2011

              Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

              Journalling here

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              • i find it depends on what bones i make the broth with as to how palatable it seems without adding it to something. i love pork bones boiled up so i can drink pork broth. chicken, lamb, beef and fish i have to put in things like soups. i have been making japanese curry of recent which is just meat, broth, a few veges and spices with fat which has been a good way to get broth in without having to have soup. i wonder if you put the salt in once you've made the broth or while you are making it? i usually just make mine with bones, water and a splash of cider vingar.

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                • Can I ask how people get their fat intake up to 70%.
                  I am half way through a whole 30 and figure when I am finished that I will transition across to eating moar fat.
                  thanks
                  link to my journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread97129.html

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                  • Originally posted by jacmac View Post
                    Can I ask how people get their fat intake up to 70%.
                    I am half way through a whole 30 and figure when I am finished that I will transition across to eating moar fat.
                    thanks
                    I've been making lots of custard (egg + enough cream/coconut milk to fill the cup, whisk together, add a little stevia, vanilla extract, etc., bake in a water bath until just set) and lots of coconut oil bark (melt coconut oil, mix in cocoa powder, stevia, vanilla extract, etc., put in mold in the freezer). Alternatively you can just drink cream and coconut milk, which I also do. I think you almost have to supplement additional fat to have enough calories to stay ketogenic without getting too much protein. Here is an example from Dr. Peter Attia:
                    What I actually eat The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

                    Keep in mind that Dr. Attia exercises a lot (like 1+ every day) so his calorie needs are pretty high. But it's still good to see an example of someone eating a highly ketogenic diet to know what to shoot for. Notice that he uses cream and butter pretty much every day.

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                    • So, I did not do carb-up this weekend. I did not count macros, but I did not have any tubers or fruit. I probably was higher than 30 g, but anyway, I think I did pretty good. The result of not carbing up over the weekend was gaining... -1.6 lbs.

                      I guess, something finally clicked off in the system, and I dropped 3 lbs from the last week.

                      Now, the notes: I feel much better. Hunger is nowhere near the 'regular'. I had breakfast on Sunday (2 eggs, ~ 1/2 cup egg whites and touch of cheese) and went lifting for an hour, run my normal 20 min intervals after that, shopped came home and went to the amusement park with my folks totally forgetting post workout meal. We came home about 2 pm, and that's when I was eating a bit of pate while cooking meatzza. Then I had a slice of meatzza piled with onions, mushrooms, peppers, tomatoes - and did not need dinner, just some chopped cabbage and a couple of bowl of coconut milk/creamed coconut & a few nuts just for funzies. Satiation is almost immediate on the low volumes of food. I chopped up a whole cantaloupe for my folks without experiencing adverse reaction, I drove in a car holding the core of my daughter's fresh unfinished apple that smelled like hells and did not feel like eating it. Well, it's good for now, let's hope it lasts.

                      On the negative side, recover takes longer and I feel much more sore after the training. Steam room is closed for maintenance, so I do not know when I can check if the steam can help me recover.

                      Cheers, keeping fingers crossed that I can have another good week of no damaging foods.
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                      • Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                        Here is an example from Dr. Peter Attia:
                        What I actually eat The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

                        Keep in mind that Dr. Attia exercises a lot (like 1+ every day) so his calorie needs are pretty high. But it's still good to see an example of someone eating a highly ketogenic diet to know what to shoot for. Notice that he uses cream and butter pretty much every day.
                        And cheese! You do have to be careful with cheese portions, but I find it very helpful and enjoyable when eating this way if you can. I've been eating cheese everyday and have lost 5-7 lbs this month!
                        Last edited by healthy11; 09-17-2012, 05:30 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                          I've been making lots of custard (egg + enough cream/coconut milk to fill the cup, whisk together, add a little stevia, vanilla extract, etc., bake in a water bath until just set) and lots of coconut oil bark (melt coconut oil, mix in cocoa powder, stevia, vanilla extract, etc., put in mold in the freezer). Alternatively you can just drink cream and coconut milk, which I also do. I think you almost have to supplement additional fat to have enough calories to stay ketogenic without getting too much protein. Here is an example from Dr. Peter Attia:
                          What I actually eat The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

                          Keep in mind that Dr. Attia exercises a lot (like 1+ every day) so his calorie needs are pretty high. But it's still good to see an example of someone eating a highly ketogenic diet to know what to shoot for. Notice that he uses cream and butter pretty much every day.
                          Thank you for this link...I've begun reading his blog as well now! Great information and his writing is very clear. I love the idea of an 'Eating Academy'...

                          I'm still working on ways to include more fat in my diet. My body is accepting it better now so I'm increasing. I also ordered some organic coconut cream which I eat by the spoonful. I'll get it, and I'm seeing results whilst I address issues.
                          A Woman's Place Is In The Revolution.

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                          • Oh, forgot to add, I found the way to stop idolizing fruit that works for my twisted mind. Well, first I do my homework examining my cravings for fruit and realizing that 99% of it is the yearning to recapture the childhood feeling of happiness and vacations and summer before everything went haywire. But the best is that I imagine that all the fruit in the house is made of WAX! Yep, those perfect fakes they sell in house decorating store. Yippee! Did the trick.
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                            • Ketosis is finally kicking in! My breath smells funky, and I am having that appetite blunting. Yay! I am loving this idea of tossing the egg white (well, giving it to kids or hubby) and eating the yolk. I have even figured out how to successfully fry a 'two yolk' egg without breaking either of them. Workout performance still is decreased, but from reading Eating Academy that seems to take a while to adjust, but then ends up being better.

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                              • Originally posted by Jac View Post
                                I just searched my kindle to find the specific recommendations from Phinney and Volek. It's

                                "Practically speaking, the easiest way to get this sodium is to buy standard bouillon cubes and consume 2 per day. They are cheap, compact, last months without refrigeration, and hot water is easily found. A more traditional path is to make your own meat or vegetable broth containing 1 teaspoon of salt per quart."

                                I'll be getting into that!


                                WYLER'S, FLAVOR BOUILLON, CUBES, CHICKEN
                                INGREDIENTS: Salt, Sugar, Mechanically Separated Cooked Ground Chicken Meat, Sodium Bicarbonate, Monosodium Glutamate, Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten, Corn Maltodextrin, Onion Powder, Chicken Fat, Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten Protein, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil and Partially Hydrogenated Cottonseed Oil, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Water, Garlic Powder, Disodium Inosinate and Disodium Guanylate, Dextrose, Cooked Chicken Powder, Natural Chicken Flavor, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Calcium Silicate, Gelatin, Soy Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Turmeric, Corn Syrup Solids, Spice, Modified Cornstarch, Silicon Dioxide, Diacetyl (Flavor), Artificial Flavor, Tricalcium Phosphate, Alpha Tocopherols (Antioxidant), Corn Oil, BHA (Preservative), Propyl Gallate, Citric Acid, BHT (Preservative).
                                be very careful with commercial soup base and bouillon products. the above product, quite standard in american stores, is not something i would touch with a 20-foot pole.

                                i do make my own beef and chicken broths, but make LOTS at once that i portion, reduce and freeze. this way i can have a bit almost everyday, but only make it every 6 months or so. often i will make it the base of a meal, either with eggs or bits of meat in there, some greens and hot sauce. i keep the animal fact intact that congeals on top of the broth as it cools and add a chunk of that to the pot.

                                regular consumption of this has had a dramatic improvement on my overall health.

                                Broth is Beautiful - Weston A Price Foundation
                                As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                                Ernest Hemingway

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