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  • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    After a considerable period of adaptation, though, it seems the sodium can be dialed back. I was using salt for a long time and (thought it really saved my hide at first) my BP ended up around 155/90-ish in time, so I started taking magnesium and potassium instead and only get sodium from food instead of adding it. Now my BP is back to 120/70-ish and I feel great.

    Now I get most of my sodium from bacon and sauerkraut. Ohhhhh, yes. Yes I DO!
    Fair comment. I haven't found the need to use bouillon like others, or even much supplemental salt. But I do use some, and others have reported it making a very large difference. Obviously, it would only apply when going into ketosis, and dealing with natriuresis -- Natriuresis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    • Homemade mascarpone:
      Homemade Mascarpone and Broiled Peaches | Not Without Salt

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      • Originally posted by Quies View Post
        For the people who have made Free the Animal Fat Bread, have you tried making it in any other form than a loaf? While I have never really liked bread in general, fat bread garlic knots sound very good. I'm just wondering if the bread would hold up to cooking in that kind of shape.
        I doubt it would be shape-able enough to make knots, but I've made Fat Bread Muffins and really enjoyed them. In the next day or two I plan to try a batch with a bit of cheese and diced jalapeno in the hopes of getting something reminiscent of the old cornbread I used to enjoy so much.

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        • Originally posted by Isabel1989 View Post
          Hi paleobird and everyone, do anyone of u guys have this problem that I had?

          I have been constantly tracking my diet since I started primal, and my usual calories intake is around 1200cal and fat intake is around 50-60% (mainly from nuts, fresh milk and cheese), 30% protein (from milk cottage cheese and lean meat), and 10% carbo (which is around 40g of total carbo and mainly from the fresh milk I drank). Exercising wise I usually do jogs, tennis weight lifting. Ultimately I aim to achieve a calorie deficit.

          When I am on this type of diet, I actually notice that I am losing weight but at the same time gaining body fat? I actually look fatter even though I lost around 2kg in 1 month. Is there something wrong with my body or it's just my imagination?
          Not actually seeing you, there is no way for me to know this.

          Originally posted by Shelli View Post
          I've been eating this way for a week now and am feeling really good. My lovely almost-21 year old daughter who likes to torture herself when she loses weight just called and asked me if I'd unofficially particpate in some 90-day Food Patrol challenge with her. I told her I wasn't willing to change what I was doing right now, but I'll be her accountability buddy and I'll participate doing the good fat/mod protein/lower carbs thing. I hope the Food Patrol isn't some CW nonsense.
          The Food Patrol is going to kick in the door and confiscate your bacon and kerrygold and replace it with tofurky and margarine.

          Originally posted by PureFunctionalFitness View Post
          Out of interest, what are you basing that calorie intake on, seems remarkably low, well below your basal metabolic rate I would guess.
          Again, we are only guessing without more stats like height, weight, and age.

          Originally posted by Annlee View Post
          I notice two things - a lot of dairy (with lactose, which seems to be quite insulinogenic) and possibly quite a bit of O-6 (nuts - depending on how much of them, and which nuts - O-6 content is quite variable there). The net of this is that you may be persisting in a low-level inflammatory state, which is preventing the lean out I would expect at that intake and output level. Poor man's version is that your body perceives stress (inflammation) and therefore hangs on to fat, and that is exacerbated by the insulin release from the lactose.
          Yes. This is a good guess. A lot of people are not massively intolerant to dairy digestively, but it can still cause a systemic, low level, chronic inflammation. I've found I do fine if i stick to the high end of the fat spectrum in dairy where the milk solids are lower like mascarpone.

          Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
          After a considerable period of adaptation, though, it seems the sodium can be dialed back. I was using salt for a long time and (thought it really saved my hide at first) my BP ended up around 155/90-ish in time, so I started taking magnesium and potassium instead and only get sodium from food instead of adding it. Now my BP is back to 120/70-ish and I feel great.
          Now I get most of my sodium from bacon and sauerkraut. Ohhhhh, yes. Yes I DO!
          Originally posted by Annlee View Post
          Fair comment. I haven't found the need to use bouillon like others, or even much supplemental salt. But I do use some, and others have reported it making a very large difference. Obviously, it would only apply when going into ketosis, and dealing with natriuresis -- Natriuresis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          Interesting. So the extra sodium need is transitional.

          Originally posted by healthy11 View Post
          I think I love you.

          Originally posted by Takuan.Daikon View Post
          I doubt it would be shape-able enough to make knots, but I've made Fat Bread Muffins and really enjoyed them. In the next day or two I plan to try a batch with a bit of cheese and diced jalapeno in the hopes of getting something reminiscent of the old cornbread I used to enjoy so much.
          Ooooh. Someone was making meatballs on the recipe board with those little mozzarella balls baked inside. One of those inside a fat bread muffin would rock.

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          • I mentioned the fat bread muffin idea to my husband, and his eyes lit up.

            "With sausage gravy over them. That would be wonderful!"

            Okay... this might be a winner...

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            • I just watched this really interesting lecture on youtube talking about a ketogenic diet. It was very strait forward, and really layed out the basics. So if there are any newbies out there to a Ketogenic Primal way of eating, this is a good basis to work from. (Posted below). (Of course, the Dr. isn't primal, so it goes without saying that you should still avoid grains & processed crap.)

              On an interesting note. The Dr. told the group to drink a cup of bullion twice a day (not if you had heard problems or hypertension) to help the body transition to a ketogenic way of eating more easily. He instructed them to do this for the first two weeks. Kind of goes along with what Knifegill & Annlee mentioned.


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              • Paleobird, my daughter moved out of the house and in with her boyfriend while I was in the States in April....(little stinker she is) so the Food Patrol ain't gettin' anywhere near my house! There'd be some sort of revolution if I had to serve tofurkey. And rightly so!

                My friends' son did this last year and combined it with intense gym and really did well...but he suffered. I had a conversation with his lovely English grandma about the whole process and she said "Imagine....vegetables with NO GRAVY." That's what it was all about. Deprivation.

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                • Originally posted by lissee View Post
                  I just watched this really interesting lecture on youtube talking about a ketogenic diet. It was very strait forward, and really layed out the basics. So if there are any newbies out there to a Ketogenic Primal way of eating, this is a good basis to work from. (Posted below). (Of course, the Dr. isn't primal, so it goes without saying that you should still avoid grains & processed crap.)

                  On an interesting note. The Dr. told the group to drink a cup of bullion twice a day (not if you had heard problems or hypertension) to help the body transition to a ketogenic way of eating more easily. He instructed them to do this for the first two weeks. Kind of goes along with what Knifegill & Annlee mentioned.
                  That was a very good basic primer on the subject if you just ignore the part about diet sodas and sugar free jello (ew). One thing that I think this video kind of touches on too lightly though is the whole idea of portion control. It just says eat as much as you want but stop when you are no longer hungry. If you jsut keep the carbs down, the rest happens all by itself. Well, as many on this forum have found out the hard way, myself included, it is Very possible to overeat even on low carb high fat foods particularly when your satiety/hunger signaling mechanisms are in less than optimal working order.

                  Originally posted by Shelli View Post
                  Paleobird, my daughter moved out of the house and in with her boyfriend while I was in the States in April....(little stinker she is) so the Food Patrol ain't gettin' anywhere near my house! There'd be some sort of revolution if I had to serve tofurkey. And rightly so!

                  My friends' son did this last year and combined it with intense gym and really did well...but he suffered. I had a conversation with his lovely English grandma about the whole process and she said "Imagine....vegetables with NO GRAVY." That's what it was all about. Deprivation.
                  Some people have the idea that if there is no deprivation going on, it can't possibly be doing any good.

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                  • So with the fat bread muffins, do you change the cooking time or anything? I'll probably look around for some of those mini muffin pans, it will be a lot easier to portion that way.

                    Making chicken bone broth, can you just take bones from cooked chicken to use? Do you need to break the bones open?
                    Primal Journal

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                    • I have been snarfing the salads lately. Can't get enough. Probably over my low carb threshold with the beets and tomatoes on my salads. I have not been tracking calories or macros. Maybe I will resume. I thought I was starting to lose again but I guess I was wrong. I sometimes wonder if even if the food you eat is low in calories, like salad, if you overeat and end up full does being full also make you fat?
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • Originally posted by Quies View Post
                        So with the fat bread muffins, do you change the cooking time or anything? I'll probably look around for some of those mini muffin pans, it will be a lot easier to portion that way.
                        Making chicken bone broth, can you just take bones from cooked chicken to use? Do you need to break the bones open?
                        Find the optimal time by trial and (hopefully not too much) error and report back.
                        Breaking the bones open makes the broth richer in mmmmmmarrow.

                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        I have been snarfing the salads lately. Can't get enough. Probably over my low carb threshold with the beets and tomatoes on my salads. I have not been tracking calories or macros. Maybe I will resume. I thought I was starting to lose again but I guess I was wrong. I sometimes wonder if even if the food you eat is low in calories, like salad, if you overeat and end up full does being full also make you fat?
                        There is an interesting series of posts on the Hyperlipid site called "Whose Fat is it Anyway?" Peter is talking about the zillions of microbes that inhabit our digestive systems and eat the fibrous stuff we can't use. When the microbes are deprived of their cellulose, they send out a signaling chemical called FIAF or Fasting Induced Adipose Factor which tells the body to burn some fat for them to eat since there's no cellulose in this damn restaurant. As long as we keep feeding the microbes salads, they don't send out the word to burn fat. Interesting reading.

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                        • I think I'm getting to know my new best friend, Ketosis. It's hard to describe, sort of a lightness, a warmth in my body, no need to sleep in the day even after a late night, and while I haven't got what others have described as "laser-like focus," my dreams are more, um, organized? Longer, more coherent, less crazy. I'm not seeing the scale change, but I seem to be losing a bit of sub-cutaneous fat.

                          One thing that I've noticed: I've suspected dairy and I don't really get along, but I eat butter and cheese and high-fat yogurt. I started feeling quite achy and my teeth became sensitive again. At first I thought it was "detoxification" as fat was being burned, but I'm not sure that really happens. Then I thought, since I've bumped up the dairy considerably to get enough fat, maybe it's really bothering me. I've cut back on the dairy, and it seems to have resolved. Another food group gone. I must live on liver and lettuce, it seems.

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                          • Sanas, have you tried it with just keeping butter (or possibly ghee) in the mix minus the other dairy stuff? You might be able to get away with this given that there are very little milk solids involved. Butter makes getting to keto levels of fat much easier.

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                            • I'm doing this without much dairy. A little raw cheese every other week is about it. I know I don't need the cheese, but since I seem to tolerate the raw cheese, and I REALLY love cheese - I'm allowing it. I'm using mostly coconut milk, coconut oil, tallow, eggs, avocado, bacon, organ meats and poultry and fish, and some leafy greens for good measure.

                              I've given up on keto-stix because even when I'm dropping body fat fast, have stinky-tones and no appetite, I pee negative to trace at best.

                              Just saying, power to you, you can do this without dairy.
                              Crohn's, doing SCD

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                              • About the ketostix, you are probably so well fat adapted at this point that they are not really that reliable any more. They are a good metric as you are first getting into keto, but later you become so good at burning the ketones that there are not that many being flushed out. You fat burning beast, you.

                                Yes, to do this without any dairy would involve a lot of coconut but it could definitely be done. Is it possible to make coconut milk cheese? Must google.........

                                ETA: I found this on a vegan site but we won't hold that against them. http://sweetroots.blogspot.com/2012/...onut-milk.html
                                Last edited by Paleobird; 09-09-2012, 10:55 PM.

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