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EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

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  • Lots of people get high heart rates when under stress, no big deal, but if you are exercising at a moderate perceived rate of exertion BUT your heart rate is really high, then it might be worth getting checked over. I would say that in all out sprints, 190bpm is not necessarily unexpected at your age.

    You need to perhaps work at a a much lower intensity and see what the HR does.

    the Borg Scale is the general scale for perceived exertion rate, and although it was formed using 20 year olds (with an estimated max HR of 200), it works from 6-20 with correlating heart rates.

    So, if you go for a hike, and estimate your exertion level at 12 out of 20, you would expect to see a heart rate of 120ish, working out at an exertion level that feels like a 19/20 (to you), 190 bpm would be the expected HR.

    Give it a go, work at really a comfortable pace where it feels like a 12/20 and see if the HR correlates roughly. If you are feeling it is easy, but your HR is 170, then you might want to look into it further.

    The other option is that you have a very poor aerobic base, and almost any moderate level of exercise sends your HR through the roof.

    Another thing. If you warm up slowly for 15 mins or so as part of the session, building HR slowly, you will not experience sudden HR spikes, and your HR should be a lot more under control

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    • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
      Hey girls, It's 220 minus your age for max heart rate. Don't get too hung up on this. You're reading CW which we all know is dangerous. Heart rate monitors are great for making you move faster when you realise you're just cruising at 110 but that's all. Go with how you feel. To challenge the burn body fat wisdom it's still all about calories in and calories out. I don't remember the exact numbers because I gave up being a slave to it a long time ago but if you go at a rate than burns 50% fat as fuel and an hour burns 250 calories that's 125 calories in fat. If you work hard and burn 700 calories and you drop to 25 % fat burning you burn 175 calories in fat. It's always been the case that change takes effort. There's an awful lot of fat people in the gym walking or cycling slow. The lean fit ones are moving fast and lifting heavy.
      220 - age is CW. Maffetone method is much much lower than that and serves a different purpose. By "fat burning" he means activating the same machinery that ketosis or very low carb activates.
      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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      • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
        I agree...and an awful lot of people don't work nearly hard enough. You need to work out your own common sense as well. 180 - my age 130 for a maximum heart rate would be daft given that I frequently work at 170+.
        No, you do not understand the Maffetone method. You are working out way too high. You are shutting off the internal processes that build good aerobic fitness and instead are relying upon anaerobic fitness.

        I wore the heart rate monitor today on my bike ride to work. I am finding that my MAF heart rate is a very comfortable rate, yet still feels like I'm getting a decent workout. I found it very hard to stay below going up hills and hard to not dip too low on the flats. I do have to work a bit on the flats to stay in my range, so this is what I think it'll be effective. It's still work, not just coasting.

        I think this Maffetone method really explains why anytime I've tried to use bike riding for fitness I've only gained weight and worn myself out or even gotten injured. I tend to ride way too hard and put way too much stress on myself. That stress, according to Maffetone, not only shuts off the whole aerobic fitness thing but also contributes to metabolic/cortisol problems and inflammation. Oh hell yeah do I know a lot about exercise-induced inflammation. I usually look like a bubble after I do any long duration exercise. I think this slowing down thing is going to make me much more effective at getting fit.

        Sorry to change the subject from eating MOAR fat. I can try to change it back...

        This is the start of week three of my return to low carb, high fat. I think I've crossed another threshold where now I eat fewer meals and when I get to dinner time I am really looking forward to a nice big meal, but after I eat it, I'm uncomfortably full. Even if the dinner is mostly salad. My eyes are way bigger than my stomach.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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        • No, no problem about the thread detour into training methods. This is interesting info. The Maffetone method does seem to be more in line with PB principles.

          Yep, MOAR fat makes two meals a day easy. I've slid towards one real meal (dinner) plus a fat-snack at lunchtime (something like an avocado or some cheese).

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
            I agree...and an awful lot of people don't work nearly hard enough. You need to work out your own common sense as well. 180 - my age 130 for a maximum heart rate would be daft given that I frequently work at 170+.
            As sbhikes notes, you are misinterpreting the use of the Maffetone equation. 180-age is not max heart rate, but the top end of heart rate to stay in an aerobic, fat burning zone. This is not much different than move slowly ala Sisson. Mark defines that as <= 75% of max heart rate.

            For me at 54, my MAF rate is 180-54= 126.

            Using conventional mrh calcs and going to 75%: 220-54= 166 x 75% = 124.5

            So I can use a max heart rate of 126 ala Maffetone for the bulk of my move slow or 124.5 ala Sisson. Basically consistent with each other.

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            • And I would add that when Maffetone uses the words "fat-burning zone" he doesn't necessarily mean it the same way that CW tends to make it sound, like some magic zone of weight loss. It's not so much "this is the range where you will lose the most weight" as "this is the range that supports the metabolic pathways that use body fat for limitless energy rather than the ones that use liver and muscle glycogen, which are more limited."

              Since low carb and ketosis are means to turn on and support the metabolic pathways that use body fat for energy rather than liver and muscle glycogen, I am using the Maffetone method to further support that effort.

              Maffetone also discusses carbohydrates a lot. He sees a lot of people who are carbohydrate intolerant. Every person needs to find the level of carbohydrates that are okay for them. For some people it may be very low. I believe it is rather low for me.

              The Maffetone method gives me hope that I can be as physically active as I want to be, even make improvements and take on new activities that I've only ever failed at before, and at the same time, pursue a level of carb intake that is supportive to my best health AND my best performance.

              It's such a subtle concept to try to express. I hope I've done so here.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • I am going to have to look into Maffetone more. His concept of carb tolerance is interesting, and I definitely think that might explain why some of us feel so much better at a higher carb intake while others are better on less. I've never had the issues he describes as carb intolerance symptoms, but reading that helped me understand the issues other people might be facing. I might see if the library has his book.
                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                Owly's Journal

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                • You can find lots of his info free on his website. Here's his two-week test. He talks a little about carb intolerance here.
                  Phil Maffetone, www.philmaffetone.com - 2 Week Test
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    Every person needs to find the level of carbohydrates that are okay for them. For some people it may be very low. I believe it is rather low for me.
                    I have yet to figure it out for myself. I am usually in a range of like 30 - 75 net. So I never really know how much time it takes to feel the affects. A day, a week? etc. I guess I need to aim at a week or more at the same number (or close) and then use a new number a different week? Or maybe a month?

                    Seems like when I think I have narrowed something down, I realize that Oh.. it could have also been because of this or this. ugggh

                    I am such a work in progress.
                    65lbs gone and counting!!

                    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                      You can find lots of his info free on his website. Here's his two-week test. He talks a little about carb intolerance here.
                      Phil Maffetone, www.philmaffetone.com - 2 Week Test
                      Hmm I posted too soon. This may have my answer. Thanks!
                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                      Comment


                      • Yes, that's the bit I read about the carb intolerance, which is what made me curious since I don't get those symptoms.
                        “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                        Owly's Journal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          And I would add that when Maffetone uses the words "fat-burning zone" he doesn't necessarily mean it the same way that CW tends to make it sound, like some magic zone of weight loss. It's not so much "this is the range where you will lose the most weight" as "this is the range that supports the metabolic pathways that use body fat for limitless energy rather than the ones that use liver and muscle glycogen, which are more limited."

                          Since low carb and ketosis are means to turn on and support the metabolic pathways that use body fat for energy rather than liver and muscle glycogen, I am using the Maffetone method to further support that effort.

                          Maffetone also discusses carbohydrates a lot. He sees a lot of people who are carbohydrate intolerant. Every person needs to find the level of carbohydrates that are okay for them. For some people it may be very low. I believe it is rather low for me.
                          Yes the carbs/ketosis and low level exercise to burn fat rather than glycogen do go hand in hand. Speaking of which, I'm going to get out for a walk today. Really I am.

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                          • Just chipping in to say Thanks, paleobird. Been following this for a couple of days and this thread is like the missing link in my head. It's making more sense now.. super cool. I appreciate your expertise & all the great links that ppl have added along the way. You rock my face off! I added more fat to my break-fast and found I wasn't "munchy" after my meal, super cool. I hope more folks chime in..

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Owly View Post
                              Yes, that's the bit I read about the carb intolerance, which is what made me curious since I don't get those symptoms.
                              Yal I dont know that I do, or just shrug it off as something else.

                              After this fast would be a good time to experiment, huh? Just add in one carby thing at a time? I realize most things are multi-taskers, but I could add back in my yogurt & see what happens, etc. Trouble is, I don't like just yogurt, it needs a banana or blueberries or nut butter or something, and I usually alternate those things each day, thus the trouble of narrowing it down. So maybe I should make a conscious effort to pay attention to it and limit those things introduced back in?
                              65lbs gone and counting!!

                              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                              Comment


                              • Dear posters of this thread.
                                I want to thank all of you for making me want to try real Low Carb/High Fat Paleo.

                                I've never felt so good about food in my life, it's absolutely amazing.
                                I began with a fast, when I introduced some "bulletproof" coffee/green tea with Coconut Oil, that lasted around 38 hours, and then began to eat something like 60 to 65 % Fats, 30 % Proteins, and 5 to 10% Carbs.
                                Went for many walks and felt absolutely amazing, peaceful...

                                Even if I'm glycogen depleted, I look much better, I feel much less inflamed, less bloated, my gut seems to be happy and I feel good about food.

                                Hope I won't have adverse effects of being in ketosis for too long since I'm just a young 19 yo man who needs to re-grow muscles after a severe hypogonadism, but I feel very very good doing that...

                                Just a question, even if one glass of Kombucha is around 14 kcal, like 4 grams of carbs, is it possible to feel slightly "strange" after drinking it ? Like a short carb high... It's been quite often now.
                                Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
                                (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

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