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EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

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  • Sorry. I had just read the topic in odds and ends and it made me exasperated.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
      Sorry. I had just read the topic in odds and ends and it made me exasperated.
      Me too, for different reasons maybe--it seemed like a blatant intent to stir up the Carb War thing once again. I'm not convinced at all that long-term ketosis is the best choice for everyone (although it's clearly working for some and more power to them), but at the same time, the whole 80-10-10 thing was purely inflammatory in intent. Nothing like lobbing a troll-bomb into a community to see how the war shakes out.
      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

      Owly's Journal

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      • Originally posted by Owly View Post
        Me too, for different reasons maybe--it seemed like a blatant intent to stir up the Carb War thing once again. I'm not convinced at all that long-term ketosis is the best choice for everyone (although it's clearly working for some and more power to them), but at the same time, the whole 80-10-10 thing was purely inflammatory in intent. Nothing like lobbing a troll-bomb into a community to see how the war shakes out.
        it's a bloody irrelevance.

        And it's not something that someone in an institution of higher education interested in human evolution, and in the truth for its own sake, would bother with for an instant.

        Posting it here shows bad manners, too. And probably that tells one something about vegans. I've no intention of reading that thread and responding to it, because it doesn't actually deserve a response.

        I wouldn't get exercised about it, and if it's causing you to be unnecessarily rude to sbhikes, then it's spreading the ill-will it aimed to.

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        • Originally posted by Lewis View Post
          it's a bloody irrelevance.

          And it's not something that someone in an institution of higher education interested in human evolution, and in the truth for its own sake, would bother with for an instant.

          Posting it here shows bad manners, too. And probably that tells one something about vegans. I've no intention of reading that thread and responding to it, because it doesn't actually deserve a response.

          I wouldn't get exercised about it, and if it's causing you to be unnecessarily rude to sbhikes, then it's spreading the ill-will it aimed to.
          I didn't get the sense that sbhikes felt I was being rude (or she would likely not have apologized), nor do I feel that a polite "hey, that's unnecessary" is rude either. Maybe you should allow us to work out our differences instead of jumping into things when we are perfectly capable of resolving our disagreement ourselves, as we have successfully done in the past. I respect sbhikes and hope that she feels the same way about me.

          Also, I was not the one who was upset and responding to that post or who brought her responses to it into this thread. So perhaps you should re-read the above conversation before making assumptions about what is going on and why. My response to sbhikes following her apology was in empathy for how irritating it can be to have trolls post things like that but to also note that it was meant to create strife in the community and that arguing over it was producing exactly the result the troll intended.
          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

          Owly's Journal

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          • Originally posted by jakeb View Post
            Bacon, my chocolate-heroin equivalent methadone.
            Yep. The trick is to get off the original drug without getting hooked on the transitional one.

            Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
            i was being facetious. 1/2 cup of cooked white rice is about 22 net carbs. i'm working right now to stay under 20. that means no more grains of any sort. i am down another 1/2 pound today. losing 2 pounds in just a few days is lightning fast for me. i feel almost giddy about it, lol.
            Oh Yeah, we got that. I 'm so glad you are seeing good results.

            Originally posted by healthy11 View Post
            What I'm finding fascinating is that my PMS and cravings and terrible mood disorders that go along with it are really under control. My PMS lasts a good 10 days every month and causes a lot of problems in my relationship. So far this month my boyfriend hasn't even noticed. I am about 4-5 days away from my period... this could be a miracle!
            I really think Grokelle would never have had such problems.

            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            I'm really angry at all you people finding relief from your illnesses and your diseases and restoring your health. How can this possibly be healthy? You must eat potatoes and fruit or I will blow myself up with rage!
            Hehehe!

            Originally posted by Owly View Post
            How is this productive? I'm glad you feel good on VLC. That doesn't change the fact that some of us don't. Being obnoxious either way just factionalizes people and means that we don't share useful information or perspectives on paleo/primal eating beyond our relative carb counts.
            SHE WAS KIDDING! Relax, Owly. She was doing a parody of the folks who push higher carb like "Everyone Must Do This. Now."

            Originally posted by Lewis View Post
            Please don't crack jokes, sbhikes.<puts on stern face>This is no laughing matter, you know.
            It was funny.....

            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            Sorry. I had just read the topic in odds and ends and it made me exasperated.
            Yeah, I agree.

            Originally posted by Owly View Post
            Me too, for different reasons maybe--it seemed like a blatant intent to stir up the Carb War thing once again. I'm not convinced at all that long-term ketosis is the best choice for everyone (although it's clearly working for some and more power to them), but at the same time, the whole 80-10-10 thing was purely inflammatory in intent. Nothing like lobbing a troll-bomb into a community to see how the war shakes out.
            Yep, shit stirring at its finest. First of all it's trying to polarize things into the extremes. Either you are his 80/10/10 carb heavy or you are some kind of deluded keto-head. There are all kinds of things in between that work for different people.

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            • Originally posted by Lewis View Post
              So what's the current thinking on daily protein allowance for women?

              I know what seems right for me, but I'm a six-foot male.

              My friend, Lucy, was asking me how much I thought she needed and I was a bit stumped. She's an older lady, if it makes any difference.
              For what it's worth - My age=60, gender=F, 5'1" (155cm), CW 138 (63kg) - and I'm trying for <1g/kg body weight

              It ain't easy. One half pound hamburger (90% lean, which is what my husband likes) is those 63g.

              Phinney and Volek recommend .6-1.0g/pound lean body mass, with where you go in that range to be determined empirically by each individual based on unique metabolic needs and behaviors.

              One problem I have with that approach is knowing what my LBM is today. Instead, I'm taking a goal weight and goal body comp target, and deriving my intended LBM. In my case, I'll take a goal weight of 120, LBM of 100 ... and that gives me a range of 60-100 g protein/day under Phinney and Volek's range.

              Empirically, I find less than 60 hard and more than 105 makes no difference. But that's me. Her mileage will vary.

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              • Originally posted by Annlee View Post
                Phinney and Volek recommend .6-1.0g/pound lean body mass, with where you go in that range to be determined empirically by each individual based on unique metabolic needs and behaviors.
                Yeah, I don't know what her lean bodymass would be. But she is quite short.

                She's Ethiopian, and quite a bit older than you.

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                • Yep, it seems like every expert out there has got a formula. I've been trying to find a synthesis of all of them that works for me.

                  Mark says .7-1 g protein per lb LBM (but he's aiming for "fat-adapted" not really ketosis)

                  Phinney and Volek say .6-1 g per lb LBM (IIRC they only recommend the high end for highly athletic people)

                  Dr. Jan Kwasniewski says Ideal Weight in kilos +/- 10% =# of grams of protein.

                  I think in all of these, the rub is determining what really is your LBM or "Ideal" weight.

                  If I weigh 150 and have about 20%body fat, that makes my LBM 120
                  So by Mark's formula using the low end of the range I get 84 grams of protein.
                  By Phinny/Volek I get 72 (again figuring at the low end of the range)
                  By Dr. JK's formula of height in cm-100 my ideal weight is 78kg so my protein would be between 70 and 86
                  If I figure Dr. JK's formula by what *I* think is my ideal weight 145lbs=67kg, protein is between 60 and 74

                  So. I have boiled all this down to something that works IRL for me and come up with a top end of 75g/day.
                  I keep carbs sub 50 and Have been doing that pretty easily, usually hitting around 30.

                  With 75x4=300 calories of protein
                  Plus 50x4=200 calories of carbs
                  I have about 1000 calories a day of fat 1000/9 = 111 grams
                  For a total of 1500 calories a day

                  This is do-able. I'm not hungry and I feel great. If I wanted to go for weight loss, I could push it down to 1200/day but that is not really my priority right now. Neurological health is.

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                  • Ya'all are making me excited for VLC again. Something to come back to when I'm not incubating.
                    Steph
                    My Primal Meanderings

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                    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Yep, it seems like every expert out there has got a formula. I've been trying to find a synthesis of all of them that works for me.
                      Truth to tell, I'm not even sure about her height:

                      "Lucy's" body height and relative leg le... [Z Morphol Anthropol. 1992] - PubMed - NCBI

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                      • Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                        She's Ethiopian, and quite a bit older than you.
                        Quite a bit older.
                        Durp.

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                        • Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                          Oh, cute, Lewis. Your elderly Ethiopian friend, Lucy

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                          • Just in case no one asked yet, does MOAR stand for something? I thought it was a spelling mistake (no big deal), but others in this thread are repeating it, so now I am wondering....
                            Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                            SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                            Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                            2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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                            • Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
                              Just in case no one asked yet, does MOAR stand for something? I thought it was a spelling mistake (no big deal), but others in this thread are repeating it, so now I am wondering....
                              It's an internet meme that kind of puts emphasis on the word. Some people say it is a combo of "more" and "roar"

                              When I first started out it was like a chant to a drum circle beat around here "Eat more fat!, Eat more fat!" and then the safe starch thing happened and things kind of went to the opposite extreme for a while. It's interesting to watch trends like that over time.

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                              • Re protein for females: I think everyone can use the various plans to give them a range to explore. But each of us must explore what works best for our peculiar bodies and personalities.

                                That's true, by the way, for carbs, too - I really need to stay below 40g/day. And I find that going for zero carb and not worrying about a couple of onesies and twosies during the day works well.

                                And I wondered at the time about the name Lucy and that particular geographic origin - but there are enough females out there needing some sort of entry point I looked past it. Besides, she ain't that much shorter than me. And I wear my age well.

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