Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by patski View Post
    Maybe this is a dumb question, but is ketosis a necessary state to be in for someone who isn't trying to lose weight?
    Paleobird does it for her siezures. Lots of autistics do it because it helps them. Some other thread here about Parkinson's said it might help those with that condition. Of course it's helpful for diabetes. There's a somewhat nutty lady who goes by "ItstheWoo" who stays in ketosis because it helps her maintain her weight and control some of her nuttiness.

    I like how I have more energy and clarity of mind. I don't know if I will stay in ketosis exactly with such a high-fat plan, but I think I will make a better effort than in the past to keep my carbs very very low.

    By the way, you can reverse engineer the grams to find out the calories you should aim for. I think it's roughly 4 calories per gram for protein and carb and 9 for fat.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

    Comment


    • I have a question, I've been trying to get in ketosis for the first time in my life (was following Mark's macros with around 70 to 150 fats, most days around 100).
      I don't have any ketostix for the moment, but I remarked that... scuse for that, my urine smells quite strong.
      Is it a sign of it ?
      Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
      (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
        I've been in ketosis for a while now and I would agree that you just 'know' when you are there. I have a very 'contented' feel and almost feel like it's a bit of a drug. I feel extremely calm and grounded. I have no cravings. I've also found that I can eat 800-1000 calories a day and that feels like it's almost too much food. My ratios are 70/20/10.
        I started feeling this way at ~40/30/30. I've been transitioning from a pretty typical SAD to something more primal over the last 5 months, while keeping my calories pretty near 1400/day on average. Obviously, I can't really be in ketosis, but maybe my blood sugar/insulin levels are much improved anyway. I have recently been trying to push to 50/25/25 and I actually feel a little worse. A high fat meal feels like a lump in my stomach for several hours and the carb cravings I haven't felt for months are back. My only exercise is walking, so I doubt I have any special carb or protein needs. Not sure what to make of this. Oh, and lbs have been dropping off pretty steadily the whole time, thank goodness.

        Pushing fat intake has brought me to a question about cooking fatty meat. How do you account for the loss of fat in cooking? I made meatloaf cupcakes with pesto frosting, inspired by Paleobird's lovely meatloaf. Each "cupcake" had 3oz of pasture-raised beef/pork, a mini mozzarella ball filling and 2t of pesto frosting. The liquid off each while cooking was probably 3/4 water, but the rest was still a good 2t of fat lost. That's almost 10g of fat from what was supposed to be a 280 calorie cupcake. It makes me think fattier meat isn't going to be a very effective way to increase my total fat.
        50yo, 5'3"
        SW-195
        CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
        GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lissee View Post
          I think that in Primal speak, this is where you fully shift from being a sugar burner into a fat burner or become "fat adapted". Where you've used up most of your glycogen stores and now your body starts pulling energy from your fat cells. Once you've become fat adapted and lowered your glycogen stores so you're in ketosis, you don't eat anything that can trigger you to shift back to a sugar burner. For example, not eating starchy carbs or thing that turn quickly into sugar like potatoes, many fruits. You also watch the sugar content on things like Kefir and yogurt and other things, because anything that will spike your insulin, is also something that can push you out of ketosis. At least that's my understanding of it.

          So by eating healthy fats, proteins, and veggis, you keep yourself firmly in ketosis. Also, to add, in this thread, Paleobird has talked about how eating too much protein pushes her out of ketosis, so this concept is also something worth thinking about. If I understand correctly, Paleobird tries to keep her ratios to 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. this keeps her firmly in the ketosis zone.

          Hope this helps.

          Edit: For me, I know I'm in ketosis when my cravings go away. Silly, I know, but in the past few days as I've upped my fat content (and have still kept my calories down), I don't crave things like I used to. Also, I mentally feel like things have leveled out, I feel a contentedness. It's weird, I know.
          "Fat-adapted" the way Mark refers to it in his piece about the Fat Burning Beast is a milder state than permanent ketosis. It is where your metabolism is healthy enough to switch easily back and forth between fat and glucose, moving in and out of ketosis easily. In order to get to that level of health however, I think those of us that have had some metabolic damage along the way of life can benefit from at least a stretch in sustained ketosis.

          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
          An important part of my routine is keeping caloric intake in check however. For weight maintenance, most nutrition calculators say I should be at about 1,700 calories. I try, therefore, to stick to that number or below, as best as I can. I agree with Paleobird's note that it's got to be a combination of high-fat and calories in, calories out.
          Yes. Thank you. It is not as simple as EAT MOAR FAT!

          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
          I don't worry about the ratios as much as the hard numbers. Protein is 1 gram per pound of body weight or less so... 130 grams or less daily (sometimes it's right at the 130 mark, some days can be as low as 80). Carbs are net (total minus fiber) to equal twenty or fewer (has been as low as five grams on occasion but typically between 15 - 20 grams a day). The rest is made up of fat, with total calories to equal 1,700 or fewer.
          I'm coming to believe that this is a valid point.

          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
          .....the recent trend in the ketogenic community is not to worry about any fiber you consume. This allows one to take in greater amounts of veggies daily and not go over the twenty gram mark.
          Yes. Greater amounts of veggies not only make the palate happy, they keep people from getting nutritional deficiencies which cause things like hair falling out which then get blamed on the keto.

          Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
          I've been in ketosis for a while now and I would agree that you just 'know' when you are there. I have a very 'contented' feel and almost feel like it's a bit of a drug. I feel extremely calm and grounded. I have no cravings. I've also found that I can eat 800-1000 calories a day and that feels like it's almost too much food. My ratios are 70/20/10. I'm currently not eating fruit and a minimal amount of dairy and abstaining from alcohol as I'm trying to drop my last 10 lbs. I've also noticed that my body temp has risen slightly: I feel warmer. This warmth is noticeable as I'm tall, and generally feel cold (I'm the one always wearing a sweater in the summer). Ketosis is a very nice place to be and unless there are any downsides, I intend to stay here as long as possible/ louisa
          A very nice place to be indeed. 70/20/10 is about what I've been hitting too.

          Originally posted by patski View Post
          Yup, I sure do. I had a blood sample taken and about 200 foods tested. Egg white and yolks came back as being highly allergic in the AVOID section. What a bummer Dairy, gluten, kale, turmeric, brewers yeast and a bunch of others are all in the 'moderate' allergen section. I miss my greek yogurt
          Maybe this is a dumb question, but is ketosis a necessary state to be in for someone who isn't trying to lose weight?
          Have you tried labne kefir cheese? All the probiotics and tangy taste of greek yoghurt but with more fat and less milk solids. Might not trip your allergy triggers so much. No, ketosis is not "necessary" (see above about "Fat Burning Beast") but it is fun.

          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
          Paleobird does it for her siezures. Lots of autistics do it because it helps them. Some other thread here about Parkinson's said it might help those with that condition. Of course it's helpful for diabetes. There's a somewhat nutty lady who goes by "ItstheWoo" who stays in ketosis because it helps her maintain her weight and control some of her nuttiness.

          I like how I have more energy and clarity of mind. I don't know if I will stay in ketosis exactly with such a high-fat plan, but I think I will make a better effort than in the past to keep my carbs very very low.

          By the way, you can reverse engineer the grams to find out the calories you should aim for. I think it's roughly 4 calories per gram for protein and carb and 9 for fat.
          Yes those are the right numbers. And yes, if ketosis can help with such a wide variety of medical conditions, kinda makes you think that maybe it is a healthy way to go, no?

          Originally posted by Daydreamer View Post
          I have a question, I've been trying to get in ketosis for the first time in my life (was following Mark's macros with around 70 to 150 fats, most days around 100).
          I don't have any ketostix for the moment, but I remarked that... scuse for that, my urine smells quite strong.
          Is it a sign of it ?
          That may have to do more with hydration than the actual ketosis. Being in Keto makes your body excrete a lot of excess fluids and so you have to be careful to drink enough water and make sure you have enough salt in your diet.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LauraSB View Post
            I started feeling this way at ~40/30/30. I've been transitioning from a pretty typical SAD to something more primal over the last 5 months, while keeping my calories pretty near 1400/day on average. Obviously, I can't really be in ketosis, but maybe my blood sugar/insulin levels are much improved anyway. I have recently been trying to push to 50/25/25 and I actually feel a little worse. A high fat meal feels like a lump in my stomach for several hours and the carb cravings I haven't felt for months are back. My only exercise is walking, so I doubt I have any special carb or protein needs. Not sure what to make of this. Oh, and lbs have been dropping off pretty steadily the whole time, thank goodness.

            Pushing fat intake has brought me to a question about cooking fatty meat. How do you account for the loss of fat in cooking? I made meatloaf cupcakes with pesto frosting, inspired by Paleobird's lovely meatloaf. Each "cupcake" had 3oz of pasture-raised beef/pork, a mini mozzarella ball filling and 2t of pesto frosting. The liquid off each while cooking was probably 3/4 water, but the rest was still a good 2t of fat lost. That's almost 10g of fat from what was supposed to be a 280 calorie cupcake. It makes me think fattier meat isn't going to be a very effective way to increase my total fat.
            Oooh those cupcakes sound wonderful. Good idea. The way you account for what cooks off is pour it over what is on the plate and eat it. lick the juices off the plate *before* giving it to the dog.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              "Fat-adapted" the way Mark refers to it in his piece about the Fat Burning Beast is a milder state than permanent ketosis. It is where your metabolism is healthy enough to switch easily back and forth between fat and glucose, moving in and out of ketosis easily. In order to get to that level of health however, I think those of us that have had some metabolic damage along the way of life can benefit from at least a stretch in sustained ketosis.

              Oooo, yes, that's what I meant. Ketosis is that extra step past the fat-adapted/fat burner type of being. And I like your point about "metabolic damage", I certainly am trying to recover from that.

              Comment


              • I'm sure it depends on the person and the food but if I eat roughly 70/20/10 are we talking days or weeks before ketosis?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Daydreamer View Post
                  my urine smells quite strong.
                  Is it a sign of it ?
                  The first time I did this I went through a period of time where my urine smelled quite strong. Like fingernail polish remover. My breath was pretty bad, too and there was a bad taste in my mouth. I would also smell like acetone when I took a shower. This happens to me after a super long, strenuous hike even way back when I was on the SAD, too. Which is further confirmation of what I have read recently that metabolic flexibility is both a result of and a sign of physical fitness. Even on the SAD I could switch to fat burning, but it took a hell of a lot of exercise to do it.

                  This time around I didn't go through a stage with smelly acetone urine and bad breath or bad taste in my mouth.

                  I have decided to eat way more salads this week. Everything was so beckoning at the farmer's market. If it sways my fat calories down and my carb calories up, so be it. Ever since I made it over back to the dark side of ketosis, I am just so in the mood to run. I will use up those carb calories when I go running.

                  I'm like opposite-lady. Give me carbs and I want to lay down and sleep. Take them away and I am bursting with energy.

                  That meatloaf cupcake idea sounds so cute! Oh man, brainstorm! I just bought a whole bunch of stuff to make various pestos and freeze them. How about lamb meatloaf with pistachio mint pesto?
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
                    I have no idea what a shovel glove is but it's great to talk to some ladies from different parts of the globe with common goals. You guys are a bit further ahead than me. I'm currently 176 lb having lost 16 lb. I'm 5'6" and I'm lifting heavy weights so 147lbs is probably my goal. I've been eating a bowl of fruit for breakfast, having reluctantly given up my porridge so I am going to give have that up tomorrow and have a really clean week and check back with you guys if you don't mind. Hopefully I will have recieved my books by then. I have 32 qualifications to do with health and fitness so I am having a complete paradigm shift.

                    I came to this from watching a programme called Eat, fast and live longer. Well worth a watch if you're interested in fasting and it's relation to health and longevity.
                    Congrats on the 16 lbs! That's fabulous so far. Keep up the good work. Am hoping that your books get to you soon!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
                      I've been in ketosis for a while now and I would agree that you just 'know' when you are there. I have a very 'contented' feel and almost feel like it's a bit of a drug. I feel extremely calm and grounded. I have no cravings.
                      Nice to know that I'm not alone in this and that it sounds like it's a normal ketosis thing.

                      Comment


                      • I love this thread! Reading about all of you and your discoveries, weight loss, health benefits, well, it's just wonderful!
                        A Woman's Place Is In The Revolution.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
                          I'm sure it depends on the person and the food but if I eat roughly 70/20/10 are we talking days or weeks before ketosis?
                          Phinney and Volek and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living say it takes about two weeks minimum. It has a lot to do with your level of insulin and leptin resistance/sensitivity.

                          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          The first time I did this I went through a period of time where my urine smelled quite strong. Like fingernail polish remover. My breath was pretty bad, too and there was a bad taste in my mouth. I would also smell like acetone when I took a shower. This happens to me after a super long, strenuous hike even way back when I was on the SAD, too. Which is further confirmation of what I have read recently that metabolic flexibility is both a result of and a sign of physical fitness. Even on the SAD I could switch to fat burning, but it took a hell of a lot of exercise to do it.

                          This time around I didn't go through a stage with smelly acetone urine and bad breath or bad taste in my mouth.

                          I have decided to eat way more salads this week. Everything was so beckoning at the farmer's market. If it sways my fat calories down and my carb calories up, so be it. Ever since I made it over back to the dark side of ketosis, I am just so in the mood to run. I will use up those carb calories when I go running.

                          I'm like opposite-lady. Give me carbs and I want to lay down and sleep. Take them away and I am bursting with energy.

                          That meatloaf cupcake idea sounds so cute! Oh man, brainstorm! I just bought a whole bunch of stuff to make various pestos and freeze them. How about lamb meatloaf with pistachio mint pesto?
                          I have had the "keto breath" before and yes, acetone is a byproduct of metabolizing ketone bodies for fuel, so I suppose this could be in the urine as well.
                          I was at the farmer's market today too. I got some gorgeous sashimi grade salmon and asparagus which are going to be dinner tonight. I keep getting brainstorm ideas like that too that just bounce into my head from somewhere. I really think ketosis clears up your neural pathways and lets the neural impulses flow unimpeded. Feels like it is making me smarter. OK, not smarter maybe but just thinking more clearly.

                          Comment


                          • Maybe this was a coincidence but a couple mornings ago when we woke up my husband said he'd had very vivid dreams about things from his childhood like camping trips he'd been on out west when he was 7-10 years old. This is the man who seldom remembers his dreams and he never has vivid dreams about his childhood. The day before we had eaten much more fat than usual, Particularly heavy cream. The last thing he'd eaten was a few strawberries and a big pile of homemade whipped cream. Has eating high fat foods ever affected your ability to dream and remember your dreams?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                              The first time I did this I went through a period of time where my urine smelled quite strong. Like fingernail polish remover. My breath was pretty bad, too and there was a bad taste in my mouth. I would also smell like acetone when I took a shower. This happens to me after a super long, strenuous hike even way back when I was on the SAD, too. Which is further confirmation of what I have read recently that metabolic flexibility is both a result of and a sign of physical fitness. Even on the SAD I could switch to fat burning, but it took a hell of a lot of exercise to do it.....This time around I didn't go through a stage with smelly acetone urine and bad breath or bad taste in my mouth.


                              I'm like opposite-lady. Give me carbs and I want to lay down and sleep. Take them away and I am bursting with energy.
                              I was that way also. I dont notice it so much anymore, so either I am not there, or I just don't notice. Still strong urine smell though, I take a number of supplements also, that might have something to do with that. But I don't notice the other stuff anymore. I figure I probaby go in and out, but I really don't know. I say I dont know because while my net carbs are usually under 50, this higher protein might have thrown a wrench in it, I dont know. I only have a few days of that being higher also. I think even when it is higher, it is still within an acceptable range, just topping out. I feel good and am steady losing so it's all good I guess. My 24 hour fast days, I am sure help out.

                              I am learning that carbs zonk me out also. I try to limit it to supper but still working on that.
                              65lbs gone and counting!!

                              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                              Comment


                              • Ironic that something that is supposed to be our body's preferred energy source seems to do nothing but make a good many of us sleepy, eh?
                                "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X