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  • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
    Same here Trojan. I'm scouring the posts for something that says exactly what Ketosis is, how to get there, how long it takes and how you know when you're there.
    I think that in Primal speak, this is where you fully shift from being a sugar burner into a fat burner or become "fat adapted". Where you've used up most of your glycogen stores and now your body starts pulling energy from your fat cells. Once you've become fat adapted and lowered your glycogen stores so you're in ketosis, you don't eat anything that can trigger you to shift back to a sugar burner. For example, not eating starchy carbs or thing that turn quickly into sugar like potatoes, many fruits. You also watch the sugar content on things like Kefir and yogurt and other things, because anything that will spike your insulin, is also something that can push you out of ketosis. At least that's my understanding of it.

    So by eating healthy fats, proteins, and veggis, you keep yourself firmly in ketosis. Also, to add, in this thread, Paleobird has talked about how eating too much protein pushes her out of ketosis, so this concept is also something worth thinking about. If I understand correctly, Paleobird tries to keep her ratios to 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. this keeps her firmly in the ketosis zone.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit: For me, I know I'm in ketosis when my cravings go away. Silly, I know, but in the past few days as I've upped my fat content (and have still kept my calories down), I don't crave things like I used to. Also, I mentally feel like things have leveled out, I feel a contentedness. It's weird, I know.
    Last edited by lissee; 09-01-2012, 01:59 AM.

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    • Originally posted by lissee View Post
      I think that in Primal speak, this is where you fully shift from being a sugar burner into a fat burner or become "fat adapted". Where you've used up most of your glycogen stores and now your body starts pulling energy from your fat cells. Once you've become fat adapted and lowered your glycogen stores so you're in ketosis, you don't eat anything that can trigger you to shift back to a sugar burner. For example, not eating starchy carbs or thing that turn quickly into sugar like potatoes, many fruits. You also watch the sugar content on things like Kefir and yogurt and other things, because anything that will spike your insulin, is also something that can push you out of ketosis. At least that's my understanding of it.

      So by eating healthy fats, proteins, and veggis, you keep yourself firmly in ketosis. Also, to add, in this thread, Paleobird has talked about how eating too much protein pushes her out of ketosis, so this concept is also something worth thinking about. If I understand correctly, Paleobird tries to keep her ratios to 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. this keeps her firmly in the ketosis zone.

      Hope this helps.
      I eat more protein than a lot of the ketosis crowd here, but try to keep to less than 20 net carbs a day. I do a daily fast as well and eat only once a day. I probably get pushed out of ketosis at mealtime, but I am right back into it probably about six to eight hours later and have been leaning out extremely well lately. I find, in fact, that my hunger goes a little wonky if I eat less protein than I do now (probably about 30% I'd guess). Reason for this is because protein works so well to keep blood sugar levels well-regulated and in check that I feel able to go all day. I love that feeling.

      An important part of my routine is keeping caloric intake in check however. For weight maintenance, most nutrition calculators say I should be at about 1,700 calories. I try, therefore, to stick to that number or below, as best as I can. I agree with Paleobird's note that it's got to be a combination of high-fat and calories in, calories out.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        but try to keep to less than 20 net carbs a day.

        Yes I do this too. I started doing the n=1 90 day thing back in July, and have found that on average, I've been keeping my carbs between about 6-13% And it's worked well for me. Some days have been higher, but that was when I wasn't tracking net carbs (i.e. subtracting the fiber from the total carb count). Mostly I'm focused on grams of sugar since I'm highly insulin resistant and carbs, specifically sugar will spike my insulin.

        Comment


        • Thanks Lissee and Drumroll,

          That's really helpful. I'm feeling good on 50-25-25 and I thought that was brave. Clearly I have to step it up. I just put my day on Fitday and if I just swap my fruit (sad) for another 2 eggs, it changes to nearly your ratios. Have ordered the books on Amazon and frustrated that they are not here yet.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
            Thanks Lissee and Drumroll,

            That's really helpful. I'm feeling good on 50-25-25 and I thought that was brave. Clearly I have to step it up. I just put my day on Fitday and if I just swap my fruit (sad) for another 2 eggs, it changes to nearly your ratios. Have ordered the books on Amazon and frustrated that they are not here yet.
            I don't worry about the ratios as much as the hard numbers. Protein is 1 gram per pound of body weight or less so... 130 grams or less daily (sometimes it's right at the 130 mark, some days can be as low as 80). Carbs are net (total minus fiber) to equal twenty or fewer (has been as low as five grams on occasion but typically between 15 - 20 grams a day). The rest is made up of fat, with total calories to equal 1,700 or fewer.

            I do worry about becoming overly insulin resistant from long-term ketosis (see Mark's recent post about that), so I give myself a carb-up day about once every two weeks or so, but after that, it's right back to the daily fast and ketogenic diet. I think that the daily fast helps me get back to the ketogenic state quicker after my carb-ups as well.
            Last edited by Drumroll; 09-01-2012, 02:36 AM.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lissee View Post
              Yes I do this too. I started doing the n=1 90 day thing back in July, and have found that on average, I've been keeping my carbs between about 6-13% And it's worked well for me. Some days have been higher, but that was when I wasn't tracking net carbs (i.e. subtracting the fiber from the total carb count). Mostly I'm focused on grams of sugar since I'm highly insulin resistant and carbs, specifically sugar will spike my insulin.
              See my post below to get my feelings on ratios vs. hard numbers.

              Sugars in all forms, glucose, fructose, dextrose, whatever the name, are what I watch out for as well. I'm not at all insulin resistant, but I like the feeling of being able to lose fat in the ketogenic state, which I do.

              I definitely do not worry about fiber though since it's impact on blood sugar is essentially negligible. Atkins (and Mark too) have said you should count ALL carbs, but the recent trend in the ketogenic community is not to worry about any fiber you consume. This allows one to take in greater amounts of veggies daily and not go over the twenty gram mark.
              Last edited by Drumroll; 09-01-2012, 02:45 AM.
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                I do worry about becoming overly insulin resistant from long-term ketosis (see Mark's recent post about that), so I give myself a carb-up day about once every two weeks or so,
                And thanks Dotty On a side note, it's kind of nice to find a couple of people to chat with who are awake at the same time as me. So thanks to you and Drumroll.

                So, re: Drumroll's comment about carbing up, I'm still figuring out what works for me (I was was traveling in China and got the flu, so I was out of commission for a couple of weeks, and am now just getting back into the flow of things...) but before i went to China, I was tracking every little thing. I had 125 grams of raspberries once a week, 3 squares of chocolate on Fridays (no I didn't plan it that way) 125 grams of blueberries once, and then on Saturday's I'd go get stir fry and eat with that 1/2 c of white rice. I think the fruit I had and the rice really helped. It seemed to work for me, and I didn't intentionally "carp up" per se, but I kind of felt like my body needed it.

                I think that as you continue along you'll find out what works best for you and eventually you'll be able to develop a kind of intuitive eating. Our bodies are a lot smarter than we think, and if we can learn to listen to its signals then we'll be a lot better off.

                Heading to the store now, am on the hunt for a sledge hammer so I can do "shovelglove" Wish me luck. Not quite sure where I'm going to find one here in Vienna...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lissee View Post
                  I think that as you continue along you'll find out what works best for you and eventually you'll be able to develop a kind of intuitive eating. Our bodies are a lot smarter than we think, and if we can learn to listen to its signals then we'll be a lot better off.
                  Oh I agree. I typically do not even need to track my numbers any more. I have learned from getting used to eating primally, what various food combinations tend to add up to the numbers I am looking for. I like to have a few "go-to" meals that I can toss in in any given moment, if I am questioning the numbers and think I may be messing up the ketosis thing for any reason.

                  Typically, I eat between 15 - 20 net carbs, 80 - 130 grams of protein, and 90 - 130 grams of fat and 1,700 or fewer calories on any given day. If I am out of that range for whatever reason, or I think my meal may take me out, THEN I may break out chronometer and crunch some numbers. But I've become so intuitively good at eyeballing it that I rarely need to worry about this anymore, and that is a great feeling. I know I can count my calories and my macro numbers without having to really track everything strictly like some people do, with a journal or using chronometer or FitDay on a daily basis.
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lissee View Post

                    Edit: For me, I know I'm in ketosis when my cravings go away. Silly, I know, but in the past few days as I've upped my fat content (and have still kept my calories down), I don't crave things like I used to. Also, I mentally feel like things have leveled out, I feel a contentedness. It's weird, I know.
                    I've been in ketosis for a while now and I would agree that you just 'know' when you are there. I have a very 'contented' feel and almost feel like it's a bit of a drug. I feel extremely calm and grounded. I have no cravings. I've also found that I can eat 800-1000 calories a day and that feels like it's almost too much food. My ratios are 70/20/10. I'm currently not eating fruit and a minimal amount of dairy and abstaining from alcohol as I'm trying to drop my last 10 lbs. I've also noticed that my body temp has risen slightly: I feel warmer. This warmth is noticeable as I'm tall, and generally feel cold (I'm the one always wearing a sweater in the summer). Ketosis is a very nice place to be and unless there are any downsides, I intend to stay here as long as possible/ louisa
                    ----------------------------------------
                    F, 48, 5'10"
                    Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                    Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                    Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                      I don't worry about the ratios as much as the hard numbers.
                      Right. I shoot for the grams and calories per day, but then I look at the % graph just to see how it all played out in terms of % overall with my calories. 100 grams of fat could be a high % if the total calories were 1000 or not enough if the total calories were 3000 so it does make a difference.
                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                      Comment


                      • I am really enjoying this thread. Very informative. My husband and I changed to Primal eating in January. He has lost 28 pounds and is at goal weight. I have lost 35-40. I didn't weigh myself when I started. I need to lose another 15 or so. I have never tracked calories or macros. Weight loss has slowed from 2-3 pounds a week to about 1 pound a week. I don't shoot for constant ketosis but my appetite is regulated and I have no cravings, so I'm content with that. I have been thinking I may need to reduce protein and up fat to pick up the weight loss pace and then I found this thread.

                        I downloaded SparkPeople which says I should be eating 1550 or less calories per day to lose 2 pounds a week. From playing with the calorie calculator the last couple days, I'm guessing I've been closer to 1800-2000 since January and still losing. The last two days I exceeded the 1550. So it may be a good test to eat as always and see if I still lose 1-2 pounds a week regardless if their 1550 recommendation.

                        Some of you don't seem to be eating very many calories per day, like 1200-1500 which I find interesting. I hope I don't need to eat less than 1500 as that doesn't seem like much at all!

                        I haven't been doing any exercise except walking from January to the end of June. Now I am doing an exercise system called T-Tapp, developed by Teresa Tapp, based on physical therapy spinal alignment principles, lymphatic system
                        Cleansing, and it also is designed to help regulate hormones. Workouts are 15-45 minutes. Most that I do are 15-20 minutes. I have lost a Lot of inches despite not losing much weight in two months. My back feels much better and stronger. This seems to be a great compliment to the primal diet as it follows the less is more exercise philosophy. They also have a forum and while they don't eat primally, there are some primal/paleo people there and many of the rest are into eating healthy fats, organic foods, coconut oil, and have a knowledge of non-conventional health matters. If this might be a help to anyone here, I highly recommend T-Tapp. I am not one who will ever go to a gym, and with this program I don't need to.
                        Last edited by Miss Understood; 09-01-2012, 05:19 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          Maybe you have an egg intolerance issue?
                          Yup, I sure do. I had a blood sample taken and about 200 foods tested. Egg white and yolks came back as being highly allergic in the AVOID section. What a bummer Dairy, gluten, kale, turmeric, brewers yeast and a bunch of others are all in the 'moderate' allergen section. I miss my greek yogurt

                          Maybe this is a dumb question, but is ketosis a necessary state to be in for someone who isn't trying to lose weight?
                          Last edited by patski; 09-01-2012, 05:44 AM.
                          A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                          Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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                          • Originally posted by lissee View Post
                            And thanks Dotty On a side note, it's kind of nice to find a couple of people to chat with who are awake at the same time as me. So thanks to you and Drumroll.

                            Heading to the store now, am on the hunt for a sledge hammer so I can do "shovelglove" Wish me luck. Not quite sure where I'm going to find one here in Vienna...
                            I have no idea what a shovel glove is but it's great to talk to some ladies from different parts of the globe with common goals. You guys are a bit further ahead than me. I'm currently 176 lb having lost 16 lb. I'm 5'6" and I'm lifting heavy weights so 147lbs is probably my goal. I've been eating a bowl of fruit for breakfast, having reluctantly given up my porridge so I am going to give have that up tomorrow and have a really clean week and check back with you guys if you don't mind. Hopefully I will have recieved my books by then. I have 32 qualifications to do with health and fitness so I am having a complete paradigm shift.

                            I came to this from watching a programme called Eat, fast and live longer. Well worth a watch if you're interested in fasting and it's relation to health and longevity.
                            Last edited by Dotty Byrd; 09-01-2012, 05:45 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Miss Understood View Post
                              I am really enjoying this thread. Very informative. My husband and I changed to Primal eating in January. He has lost 28 pounds and is at goal weight. I have lost 35-40. I didn't weigh myself when I started. I need to lose another 15 or so. I have never tracked calories or macros. Weight loss has slowed from 2-3 pounds a week to about 1 pound a week. I don't shoot for constant ketosis but my appetite is regulated and I have no cravings, so I'm content with that. I have been thinking I may need to reduce protein and up fat to pick up the weight loss pace and then I found this thread.

                              I downloaded SparkPeople which says I should be eating 1550 or less calories per day to lose 2 pounds a week. From playing with the calorie calculator the last couple days, I'm guessing I've been closer to 1800-2000 since January and still losing. The last two days I exceeded the 1550. So it may be a good test to eat as always and see if I still lose 1-2 pounds a week regardless if their 1550 recommendation.

                              Some of you don't seem to be eating very many calories per day, like 1200-1500 which I find interesting. I hope I don't need to eat less than 1500 as that doesn't seem like much at all!

                              I haven't been doing any exercise except walking from January to the end of June. Now I am doing an exercise system called T-Tapp, developed by Teresa Tapp, based on physical therapy spinal alignment principles, lymphatic system
                              Cleansing, and it also is designed to help regulate hormones. Workouts are 15-45 minutes. Most that I do are 15-20 minutes. I have lost a Lot of inches despite not losing much weight in two months. My back feels much better and stronger. This seems to be a great compliment to the primal diet as it follows the less is more exercise philosophy. They also have a forum and while they don't eat primally, there are some primal/paleo people there and many of the rest are into eating healthy fats, organic foods, coconut oil, and have a knowledge of non-conventional health matters. If this might be a help to anyone here, I highly recommend T-Tapp. I am not one who will ever go to a gym, and with this program I don't need to.
                              I've heard a lot of good things about T-Tapp... do you purchase the $80 DVD and follow that video? Is that how it works?

                              I am really feeling the benefits of going higher fat lower carb, too! Brought me back to what I did when I started eating this way and what worked. This forum threw me off track for awhile with upping my carbs which led me to cravings, skin breakouts, mood problems, bloated stomach, and no weight loss. I'm back to feeling good and losing. I weighed 139 yesterday and have been waiting to see the scale be back below 140 for 2 years! Yeah! I hope this will get me to my goal of 125!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by healthy11 View Post
                                I've heard a lot of good things about T-Tapp... do you purchase the $80 DVD and follow that video? Is that how it works?

                                I am really feeling the benefits of going higher fat lower carb, too! Brought me back to what I did when I started eating this way and what worked. This forum threw me off track for awhile with upping my carbs which led me to cravings, skin breakouts, mood problems, bloated stomach, and no weight loss. I'm back to feeling good and losing. I weighed 139 yesterday and have been waiting to see the scale be back below 140 for 2 years! Yeah! I hope this will get me to my goal of 125!
                                There are a number of different DVDs. You don't need to spend $80. I have a few and most have been around $30.00. She has some "try before you buy" exercises for free on her website, and you can find some free samples on YouTube. Ultimately Basic+ or one of the regular workouts will give you the best results since she has a reason to do various movements in a particular order. While experimenting for a couple weeks with the free exercises I lost 6 3/4 total inches ranging from bust to calves. Losses have slowed after a couple months but I am still toning and slimming. This was the missing piece to my health goals. I have a couple bad shoulders and can't raise my arms over my head and hip mobility is not great. I had been afraid to exercise because I used to have lower back and sciatic pain. Now I am not afraid to exercise and this method is rehabbing my joints. Teresa has had a spinal injury herself so is very aware of the proper ways to move and protect the spine. I really like the science behind her workouts, especially the lymphatic system emphasis. Many people have reported improved health in the same ways that going Primal has done for me: less inflammation and arthritis, regulating hormones, better appetite control, etc. I'm hoping Primal and T-Tapp will be like a double whammy for my health!

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