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  • I just remembered that both Anabolic and Cyclic Kethonic Diet both counted net carbs, not total. I assume that fibre does not mess with entering ketosis. Which means I did get in the targeted interval yesterday by the tiny margin.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • Originally posted by Lewis View Post
      Both directions. Interesting.
      That's a reasonable enough thought. But NASA is interested in this sort of stuff, and so are many top sports people. I'm not convinced it's not of interest.
      I remain firmly agnostic about this in theory. In practice there is just no way I am getting in an ice bath, just not happenin'.

      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      Net vs total includes the difference in fibre. The question we should be asking is
      a) does fibre interfere with ketosis (since ketosis is the desired outcome)
      b) is eating more fibrous vegetables is more beneficial to health in general, because the net gives you more veggies on your plate, sometimes significantly more. For example, cabbage is 43% fibre, so you can eat 40% more cabbage if you count net vs total for no significant increase in caloric value.
      c) if totals are counted, do you include carbs from not-plant foods into the count then, or are they ketonically-neutral (i.e. eggs, cheese, liver) - again that expands your room for vegetables by freeing up carbs: my three eggs today gave me 2 grams carbs, and if I do not count it, I can have 2 cups of spinach in addition to eggs without tripping carb limit. 2 grams is significant from the allocation of 25 g, making up 8% of the daily carb intake allowable, & eggs and spinach is more fun on the plate than pure eggs.
      a) Good question. I would think fiber slows down the absorption of food and so would mitigate any blood sugar spike from carbs thus being beneficial to staying in fat burning mode

      b) Yes. More veggies on the plate is a good thing for both sanity and health reasons. More variety. More vitamins/minerals.

      c) I think we have to be consistent whichever system we choose. Even Atkins counts carbs in all foods, just net carbs.

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      • That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
        That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.
        "Continue being a man and you will be excellent. Pussy will rain from the sky. " - Legbiter
        Couldn't resist immortalizing this quote.

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        • Originally posted by paleobird View Post
          i remain firmly agnostic about this in theory. In practice there is just no way i am getting in an ice bath, just not happenin'.
          lol.

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          • Originally posted by Picaro View Post
            That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
            That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.
            Who's this? Jan Kwasniewski? You people Down Under have the only reliable English-language online information, AFAIK:

            Australian Homo Optimus Society Homepage

            0.5 to 0.8 in grams of the protein figure in grams it seems. But the general figure given by most low-carb people of less than 50 g of carbs a day would do as well as anything.

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            • Originally posted by Leida View Post
              I just remembered that both Anabolic and Cyclic Kethonic Diet both counted net carbs, not total. I assume that fibre does not mess with entering ketosis. Which means I did get in the targeted interval yesterday by the tiny margin.
              Yeah I think I am going to switch over to the net carbs method and see how it goes for a while.

              Originally posted by Picaro View Post
              That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
              That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.
              I have read several articles about Dr JK's work, all claiming to be authoritative that vary widely in the actual numbers. I have read from .5 to .8 for the carb multiplier and anything from 2 to 3.5 for the fat. I can't read Polish and I don't want to pay for the translated work of a guy who thinks bread is a good carb source so I haven't bought his book.

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              • The Homo Optimus link says .5 carbs is an initial level for obese folk, then .8 ongoing.

                I've seen the pics, Paleobird, and you don't qualify for .5......
                "Continue being a man and you will be excellent. Pussy will rain from the sky. " - Legbiter
                Couldn't resist immortalizing this quote.

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                • Originally posted by Leida View Post
                  (i.e. eggs, cheese, liver) - again that expands your room for vegetables by freeing up carbs: my three eggs today gave me 2 grams carbs, and if I do not count it...
                  Maybe my tracker is wonky but I dont have carbs in my eggs, but if I did, those are the kind of carbs that count for your total. JMO Only the fiber is subtracted off to get net. Oh, how weird is that. I just typed in 3 eggs, and I did get 1.8grams. I guess with less than 1 gram it doesnt register. Interesting. That is kind of important, especially if you have one here, one there over the course of a day. It also doesnt say that it has any fiber, nor any sugar. But when I added 3 eggs to my tracker, it was just a flat 2 grams added to both total AND net.

                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Yeah I think I am going to switch over to the net carbs method and see how it goes for a while.
                  Did I read you use SP? I have my SP tracker set to track my net carbs. So at the very bottom of the page, it lists the weekly progress with a daily break down of nutrients including both carbs and net carbs. Very handy.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                  • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                    Did I read you use SP? I have my SP tracker set to track my net carbs. So at the very bottom of the page, it lists the weekly progress with a daily break down of nutrients including both carbs and net carbs. Very handy.
                    Yes. I was just trying to figure out how to switch it from total to net. How do you do that? Of course I will have to re-enter some of my favories that I have only entered TC not NC data for.

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                    • Originally posted by Picaro View Post
                      I've seen the pics, Paleobird, and you don't qualify for .5......
                      We're all flattering her. Better stop it or it'll go to her head.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Yes. I was just trying to figure out how to switch it from total to net. How do you do that? Of course I will have to re-enter some of my favories that I have only entered TC not NC data for.
                        Couple different ways but you want to end up on the nutrition set up page. One way is on your nutrition tracking page, under the Date, is Tracker Options. Then select change diet settings. Then "add another nutrient to track", you should see Carbs (for Low-carb diet) option there.

                        When you entered your own foods, if you entered the fiber, it will do it's magic for you.
                        65lbs gone and counting!!

                        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                        • Originally posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
                          Exactly Gempdix! I always thought this ideal weight never took into consideration the composition of people. I am 5 feet and I kid you not will look extremely skinny at 125 pounds. I wear size 2/4 and size 4/6 pants when I weigh 135. I am pretty big boned and naturally have muscles but also hourglassy with HUGE boobs (32DD) and A$$. BUt at 125 I will have like rock solid flat abs and small legs and arms but will still have the boobs and butt. I am fine with that. I am not sure what was the standard for the weight assumptions but it definitely did not take into consideration diversity.
                          I believe you, because I have always been one of those people who looks 10-20 lighter than I weigh.

                          At 150, I am currently sitting at 116 pounds of lean body mass, as last measured by my trainer a few weeks ago. So ya figure, add 20% of that for a decently lean female physique and that works out to 139.2 pounds - squarely at my 140 pound goal.

                          What I don't understand is, how at this size I can fit in size 4 at many clothing stores? What do all these petite little chicks who are 5'4" and say, 115-120 pounds do? Shop in the children's section? I think the vanity sizing is ridiculous here in the US - when I buy clothing in Europe it equates to a size 8, which I think is more like the old 8 used to be over here.
                          "For the great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived, and dishonest—but the myth—persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic ... we enjoy the comfort of opinions without the discomfort of thought."
                          ---John F. Kennedy

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                          • Dr. Eades on Protein Power always recommended net carbs so that's what I've always gone with. I think Mark figured it was too confusing for people to look at the carb breakdown on food labels so he went with gross carbs. Which means his carb curve is even more strict than it appears if you have a net carb point of view by default.

                            Wow, trying to figure out my ideal weight is very confusing. If I use my height in cm (160) - 110, I get 50 kilos. If I use 160 -100, I get 60 kilos. The difference in pounds is 110 for the first one and 132 for the second one. That's quite an ENORMOUS range. Plus I'm 133 right now. Definitely not HSIS. Okay S, but not Hot S.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                            • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                              Couple different ways but you want to end up on the nutrition set up page. One way is on your nutrition tracking page, under the Date, is Tracker Options. Then select change diet settings. Then "add another nutrient to track", you should see Carbs (for Low-carb diet) option there.

                              When you entered your own foods, if you entered the fiber, it will do it's magic for you.
                              Thanks! Now I just have to enter the fiber. Oh well, more numbers to geek out with.

                              Originally posted by gempdx44 View Post
                              What I don't understand is, how at this size I can fit in size 4 at many clothing stores? What do all these petite little chicks who are 5'4" and say, 115-120 pounds do? Shop in the children's section? I think the vanity sizing is ridiculous here in the US - when I buy clothing in Europe it equates to a size 8, which I think is more like the old 8 used to be over here.
                              The one brand that I find to be consistent is Levi Strauss. I wore a size six at 145 lbs back in high school (that was a loooooong time ago) and I'm back to same weight and size now.

                              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                              Dr. Eades on Protein Power always recommended net carbs so that's what I've always gone with. I think Mark figured it was too confusing for people to look at the carb breakdown on food labels so he went with gross carbs. Which means his carb curve is even more strict than it appears if you have a net carb point of view by default.

                              Wow, trying to figure out my ideal weight is very confusing. If I use my height in cm (160) - 110, I get 50 kilos. If I use 160 -100, I get 60 kilos. The difference in pounds is 110 for the first one and 132 for the second one. That's quite an ENORMOUS range. Plus I'm 133 right now. Definitely not HSIS. Okay S, but not Hot S.
                              Yeah, I think the net carbs are looking like the better choice. More avocados allowed.
                              For you at 5'3", I would split the difference between the 110 and 132 and go with the old 100 lbs plus five for each of your 3 inches above 5' so you would be shooting for 115 which is 52 point some odd kilos so you could figure HSIS as 53.

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                              • Originally posted by gempdx44 View Post
                                I believe you, because I have always been one of those people who looks 10-20 lighter than I weigh.

                                At 150, I am currently sitting at 116 pounds of lean body mass, as last measured by my trainer a few weeks ago. So ya figure, add 20% of that for a decently lean female physique and that works out to 139.2 pounds - squarely at my 140 pound goal.

                                What I don't understand is, how at this size I can fit in size 4 at many clothing stores? What do all these petite little chicks who are 5'4" and say, 115-120 pounds do? Shop in the children's section? I think the vanity sizing is ridiculous here in the US - when I buy clothing in Europe it equates to a size 8, which I think is more like the old 8 used to be over here.
                                WHAT, seriously? I am 5'4", 150, and a size 10, kind of close to size 8. How much do you deadlift?
                                My chocolatey Primal journey

                                Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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