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My High Carb Workout Experiment

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  • #16
    I wound up having a very high carb meal for...linner? Lunch at 4 pm. It was butternut squash with a head of garlic, 1/2 lb diced chicken, 1/8 cup tomato sauce, 1/4 cup coconut milk, 1/2 onion, basil, parsley, salt & pepper. I had no idea the squash would be such a carb load. It was fabulous. And afterward, I felt like I could run a marathon. Three hours later, I walked a mile and did my taekwondo class, which was a high-energy class -- and I had a terrific time. My kicks were higher, my stretches were stretchier, and I felt stronger than I have in a while. Maybe it was because of the 80+ grams of carbs I had three hours earlier. Maybe not. But I felt (and feel) terrific. (Today will be a <150 g carb day. Rah!)
    Last edited by dragonjax; 08-22-2012, 03:26 AM.
    F, 44 years old, 111.8 lbs, 4 feet 11.5 inches (yes, that half inch matters!)

    **1st place sparring, AAU TKD regional qualifier, 2/15/15 - It's damn good to hit like a girl!**

    **First-ever 5K race 11/28/13: 37 minutes, 18+ seconds, no stopping**

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lukey View Post
      Have you watched this video?

      Fuel for Muscle Contrations gone over by Dr. Gregory Ellis - YouTube

      Dr Greg Ellis talks about the use of fatty acids instead of glycogen. He knows A LOT about this, but i myself am struggling to find more about this topic. Take a look at my thread in the primal nutrition part of the forum where some people have given their experiences. Hopefully we can get some more info on this topic as i would really like to know more!
      I think what you are refering to is Intramuscular Triglcerides (IMTG), I started a thread recently, but had no bites, there are some posted links I found, here's the thread:
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread64295.html

      I did a search here and found no references to it, both on the forum or MDA.
      I've only started reading about it, it is something that happens naturally when you do endurance training, particularly when fasted or on fat biased diet.
      Basically on a relatively fit "fat burner" our fuel sources change as we ramp up exercise, so:
      At rest or light exercise the majority of our metabolism runs on fatty acids in the blood serum and these are gradually replenished from adipose tissue, there is a small contribution from muscle glycogen and IMTG.
      As exercise ramps up to around 65%VO2max there is a major shift in the fat burning source with serum fatty acids contributing less and a massive increase from IMTG, there is also an increase in muscle glycogen being utilised as well, this is the level that endurance atheletes are at, maintaining a high steady output for more than 2 hours.
      Once the level ramps up to 85%VO2max then fatty acids from serum are pretty much stopped, IMTG use levels out and decreases somewhat and Glycogen really becomes the prime fuel.

      So IMTG is a bit like the Fat equivelent of Glycogen and once we get into that endurance level I imagine it must utilize too much oxygen to release fatty acids from Adipose tissue and IMTG is preferred as it is already present in the muscle fibres where it is required. As exercise level falls back and oxygen is more freely available, then fatty acids from adipose tissue are released again and they start to fuel the bodies processes as well as restocking IMTG stores in the muscle fibres.
      The use of MCT oil in endurance events supplies a substrate that can be directly utilized in the muscle fibres in the same way as glucose drinks, so maybe a sweet oil emulsion can supply both?
      The different muscle fibres have different roles, some have greater IMTG ability, some have greater Glycogen abilities, so maximising both sides should maximise performance as well.
      I still need to do a lot more reading to get my head around it all better, but most of the research in this is quite recent, but very relevant to what people here are interested in.
      "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PrimalTrav View Post
        I do not believe our primal ancestors did lifting near the weight and volume that a weight lifter in a gym does. Maybe dragging a carcass around, lifting some logs, but in general when I count up how much reps and sets and overall weight I do, I think what I'm doing is a very unnatural activity for the human body. In general, I believe most gym rats like myself are carrying a great amount of superfluous muscle mass. It's mainly a vanity thing, to accomodate the decidedly unprimal activity of being engrossed by what one sees in their reflection. A reflection visible outside of that produced by a rippled pond is what, 300 years old? Clear mirrors are how old? Looking at ourselves daily, hourly even, is pretty unnatural in human history. With the mental abuse that comes from high school, and the modern overemphasis on our reflection, it has created (in my mind) this strange circumstance of looking at ourselves in a mirror and moving a weight up and down in order to improve what we see in that mirror.

        I look around the gym sometimes and laugh at how hilariously impractical what we're all doing is. I may be wrong. Haha.
        I have nothing to add to the scientific side of the debate, but had to give a +1 to this.... surely it's a modern form of insanity to check out one's guns in the mirror half a dozen times a day, or to spend hours upon hours researching nutrition and lifting techniques for the sole purpose of developing mass that we literally have zero practical use for. As much as I enjoy the psychological challenge of setting/breaking new records in the gym - there are many times I've second-guessed whether there was something more I could be doing with those ~6hrs/week of my life. In fact I'm almost hoping, perhaps inappropriately, to one day come across a car on its roof/on fire/occupants inside, just to prove to myself that my leet squat/deadlift PRs have some utility!

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        • #19
          I don't feel that there's anything wrong with eating carbs to fuel intense workouts, and for a recovery meal afterwards.
          What works for me is having most of my carbs around my workouts and keeping them relatively low in meals that aren't around a workout.
          I feel that I benefit from both approaches.

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          • #20
            or to spend hours upon hours researching nutrition and lifting techniques for the sole purpose of developing mass that we literally have zero practical use for
            Speak for yourself! I lift to get stronger so I can better enjoy my sport/recreational activities (principally cycling) but it also helps when I'm loading/unloading heavy things at work. There are many other benefits too: improved cardiovascular function, posture, bone density, no back/knee problems, etc. not to mention metabolic benefits such as insulin sensitivity.

            There's a lot more to lifting than just "big guns"! As you said, it's hardly primal but I think that just shows how ridiculous the constant WWGD? attitude is anyway.

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            • #21
              I literally did this exact same thing with my diet. I eliminated the bacon, excess fatty red meat, some butter and some coconut oil. For fats i now resort to leaner red meat, eggs, avocado, olive oil, some butter, and alot of fish oil supp. I should eat more fish though. I was really sick of the high fat - low carb - carb load after workout plus my weight loss stalled so i'm going to try this approach now. Fat will most likely fall in the 40-60g a day range, which is more the adaquate.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stumprrp View Post
                I literally did this exact same thing with my diet. I eliminated the bacon, excess fatty red meat, some butter and some coconut oil. For fats i now resort to leaner red meat, eggs, avocado, olive oil, some butter, and alot of fish oil supp. I should eat more fish though. I was really sick of the high fat - low carb - carb load after workout plus my weight loss stalled so i'm going to try this approach now. Fat will most likely fall in the 40-60g a day range, which is more the adaquate.
                Yeah I would go for real fish over too much fish oil. I've been going through lots of wild sardines from Wild Planet (caught in California) because they taste amazing and are packed with o3's - would rather get it that way.
                I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                • #23
                  Love me some sardines, but i couldnt eat them everyday. I take 3g fish oil in the AM and 3g before bed, so its not that much.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by zilog View Post
                    Speak for yourself! I lift to get stronger so I can better enjoy my sport/recreational activities (principally cycling) but it also helps when I'm loading/unloading heavy things at work. There are many other benefits too: improved cardiovascular function, posture, bone density, no back/knee problems, etc. not to mention metabolic benefits such as insulin sensitivity.

                    There's a lot more to lifting than just "big guns"! As you said, it's hardly primal but I think that just shows how ridiculous the constant WWGD? attitude is anyway.
                    Perhaps, but how often and for how long do you believe you have to focus on resistance training to see these benefits? I lift 1x/week with 5 compound movements all to failure and am done in under 20 minutes. I don't think the WWGD is ridiculous in the least when you consider over training as being detrimental to health.

                    If I used a volume approach and focused on carb reloads could I eek out slightly better gains? Maybe, but at what cost? From my experience there are at least two very real costs. Time and repetitive stress injuries.

                    Some people have not reached a state of maxed out physical potential or they just love to exercise. I say have at it! If you have never pushed yourself to those levels then it is a worth wile mental toughness exercise. Personally I maxed out my strength/weight and focused on every level of athleticism possible as a wrestler through college. I'm not interested in the time, pain, and ill health that comes as a consequence to that level of training anymore. So again .....it's all about your personal growth and current goals.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      I'm not interested in the time, pain, and ill health that comes as a consequence to that level of training anymore.
                      CNS overload and elevated cortisol (over-training in the Primal world and somewhat inaccurate anyway) are terms so regularly thrown around in these forums but the reality is that it isn't easy to accomplish. Properly designed exercise programs can be intensely performed for years without this happening.

                      When I see folks (not singling you out) talk about not sprinting twice in a week -for example- as they fear they'll have elevated cortisol and lose all their weight loss gains, it makes me facepalm.
                      http://stackingplates.com/

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                      • #26
                        Nah, I went on a bit of a middle ager "I can get in good nuff shape this way rant." I agree that "over training" is probably thrown around a lot more than it actually occurs.

                        When I talk about over training in my past I mean doing morning runs then afternoon 1hr technique followed by 45 minutes live bouts followed by a 3 mile run followed by evening lifting session. And all while cutting weight for the next bout. It's doable. And some people probably have a real genetic capacity for this sort of work load. Actually I kind of did myself considering how long I lasted (16 years is pretty good, only 3 of which at that intensity).

                        I'm sure you know just as well as anyone that there are thousands of gifted individuals that never made it to the NFL simply due to their bodies not holding up under the pressures of training and competing in the long haul. Again quite different than thinking 2 sprint session will stall weight loss.

                        Don't mean to project my past and current experiences and goals on others.

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                        • #27
                          ^ Good post.
                          http://stackingplates.com/

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