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  • #61
    Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
    James: First, I'd like to say that I appreciate your contributions on this thread.

    But beef is NOT high in omega 6 fats. Beef tallow is one of the lowest omega-6 fats there is. In 100g of beef fat, there is only 3.1g of total omega-6 fats.

    Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Fat, beef tallow
    Wrong post.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
      Wrong post.
      I know this thread is about soy, but as I quoted, James brought beef into the discussion for comparison sake, claiming that it is "very high" in omega-6 fatty acids. This is not true, so I supplied information to the contrary.

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      • #63
        I think your post is actually very ignorant to the actual problem with eating soy. It goes wayyyy beyond cutting carbohydrates. I cut soy out of my diet but never had any significant amount of soy as carbohydrate in my diet. Soy is extremely toxic and contains high levels of phytoestrogen. It is not meant for human consumption. Dr. Greg Ellis has a good video on this.
        Most of the soy consumed is through soybean oil, all the restaurants cook in it. Its in all processed food, and now infant formulas!

        Check out these links
        Soy Products are Dangerous - YouTube
        Soy Products, Including Soy-Based Infant Formulas, May Be a Major Cause of All Types of Disease
        Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
        Before and after pics
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
        Primal Sucess Story
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
        Primal Journal
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

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        • #64
          Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
          I know this thread is about soy, but as I quoted, James brought beef into the discussion for comparison sake, claiming that it is "very high" in omega-6 fatty acids. This is not true, so I supplied information to the contrary.
          Nononono *L* sorry about that. I started to add articles attached to your post that didn't pertain. I deleted what I was typing and tried to save but I had to write something to be able to save the changes I made so I wrote wrong post. Sorry for the confusion.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by BennettC View Post
            I think your post is actually very ignorant to the actual problem with eating soy. It goes wayyyy beyond cutting carbohydrates.
            If you'd care to read the posts, an invitation to discuss aspects beyond carbohydrates was extended in the initial posting and those aspects have been debated for 7 pages now. Seems you're ignorant of that fact.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
              Nononono *L* sorry about that. I started to add articles attached to your post that didn't pertain. I deleted what I was typing and tried to save but I had to write something to be able to save the changes I made so I wrote wrong post. Sorry for the confusion.
              Oh ok. No worries. Sorry I misunderstood.

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              • #67
                And because my quoting experience is still very basic, and I keep deleting my replies while running back and forth between reference articles, I'll just throw a whole bunch of bones into the soup pot and let you guys sort them out, ok?

                James wrote about the Weston A. Price Foundation having a lawyer working for the Foundation on dairy issues. I believe that there is a degree of separation between that foundation, and the one he is actually president of: The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund. Legalities. Technicalities count.

                Meatingplace.com, a trade journal, has been featuring articles on how the meat industries have been petitioning the gov't to waive ethanol production goals to protect against steep price ncreases in feedstocks , notably corn and soy. Sounds like they are not competitors, but consumers.

                Meatingplace.com

                Here's another dispassionate look at actual numbers. (Heads hurt yet?)

                http://healthscience.org/index.php?o...health-science

                Few people in N.A. eat blood or organs in which estrogen is apt to be found in detectable quantities. Any beef that contained as much estrogen as soy would be very sick, very overweight animals.
                Last edited by Paysan; 08-20-2012, 12:52 PM.

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                • #68
                  Strike one for soy: It's not Primal.

                  It's a legume and, in anything other than the edamame out of the shell form, it's a processed food.

                  Strike two for soy: I don't like it. It's gross.

                  Let's see, I could have a gritty watery milk-like substance or I could drink some raw real milk.
                  I could have a grass fed burger or I could have a cardboard replica of one made out of "textured vegetable protein" and who knows what else. I could have a squidgy cheese-like substance that never melts right on my burger or maybe just have some real cheese.
                  I could have all meat sausages or I could have a tofu dog. Nuff said.
                  I could have a squidgy white flavorless substance known as tofu in my stir-fry or I could have some shrimp and scallops.

                  Strike three for soy : Possible potential breast cancer risk

                  We can debate about phytoestrogens until the free range cows come home. There are just as many studies saying it's carcinogenic and saying it's preventative against cancer, some poorly done, some scientifically sound, some obvious shills and some independent research, on both sides of the issue. Plus others that say it makes no difference. This puts it firmly in the "We Really Don't Know For Sure Yet" category in my mind.

                  Given the above two strikes, it's not Primal and I don't like it anyway, why should I take a risk that maybe the research on the cancer danger side turns out to be true? Anecdotal, I know, but I ate a lot of soy growing up with 70's health freak parents and continued to do so until I got breast cancer at 45. Now I choose to err on the side of caution for my own personal safety.

                  So that's three strikes. Soy, you're out of my diet.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post

                    Strike two for soy: I don't like it. It's gross.

                    Let's see, I could have a gritty watery milk-like substance or I could drink some raw real milk.
                    I could have a grass fed burger or I could have a cardboard replica of one made out of "textured vegetable protein" and who knows what else. I could have a squidgy cheese-like substance that never melts right on my burger or maybe just have some real cheese.
                    I could have all meat sausages or I could have a tofu dog. Nuff said.
                    I could have a squidgy white flavorless substance known as tofu in my stir-fry or I could have some shrimp and scallops.
                    Ahahahahahahahaha! Yeah.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Strike two for soy: I don't like it. It's gross.

                      Let's see, I could have a gritty watery milk-like substance or I could drink some raw real milk.[/B]
                      I feel somewhat offended by this because I hate how people on Primal continue to bash soy because it tastes bad to them. You may think that real, fresh soy milk may taste gritty and watery, but I think it tastes delicious. I honestly grew up drinking it, and not as much cow's milk, so I am accustomed to the taste. I think cow's milk tastes weird. Stop hating!

                      Although those faux products Americans create out of soy are disgusting, I do agree.
                      My chocolatey Primal journey

                      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
                        I feel somewhat offended by this because I hate how people on Primal continue to bash soy because it tastes bad to them. You may think that real, fresh soy milk may taste gritty and watery, but I think it tastes delicious. I honestly grew up drinking it, and not as much cow's milk, so I am accustomed to the taste. I think cow's milk tastes weird. Stop hating!

                        Although those faux products Americans create out of soy are disgusting, I do agree.
                        I said I didn't like soy milk. You said you didn't like cow milk. But my statement is "hating" and yours isn't? Chill. No need to be offended. Just opinions all around.

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                        • #72
                          I think maybe she was kidding. I'd call soy milk a faux product too.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Piscator View Post
                            I think maybe she was kidding. I'd call soy milk a faux product too.
                            Other than edamame, I don't see how any soy products qualify as whole real foods, what Primal is supposed to be about. Even Mark says he eats some edamame occasionally and now and then has some fermented soy products such as tempeh. I think each person has to make their own judgement call about this. I don't feel anything lacking in a soy free diet personally.

                            So, for me, the question really isn't ,"Why not eat soy", it's "Why?" It doesn't give me anything nutritionally that I can't find in a better tasting form, IMO, from animal sources. Why take the risk that it may be carcinogenic for a tofu dog?
                            Last edited by Paleobird; 08-20-2012, 02:19 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Other than edamame, I don't see how any soy products qualify as whole real foods, what Primal is supposed to be about. Even Mark says he eats some edamame occasionally and now and then has some fermented soy products such as tempeh. I think each person has to make their own judgement call about this. I don't feel anything lacking in a soy free diet personally.

                              So, for me, the question really isn't ,"Why not eat soy", it's "Why?" It doesn't give me anything nutritionally that I can't find in a better tasting form, IMO, from animal sources. Why take the risk that it may be carcinogenic for a tofu dog?
                              Well said!!!

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                Strike one for soy: It's not Primal.

                                Anecdotal, I know, but I ate a lot of soy growing up with 70's health freak parents and continued to do so until I got breast cancer at 45. Now I choose to err on the side of caution for my own personal safety.
                                Reminds me of the experience my sister and brother-in-law had on the "Farm" a commune in Tennessee during the late 60s and 70s. They embraced vegetarianism and grew their own soy. They ate plenty of seasonal vegetables but their primary source of protein was Soy. They were always sick, tired and run down. Their son developed cancer and died, they moved off the Farm started eating meat and have recently embraced a Paleo style diet and are a vibrant healthy family. They swear that soy was the cause of their constant battle with illness and possibly their son's death. Very anecdotal but it makes you think.
                                Last edited by canuck416; 08-20-2012, 03:13 PM.
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