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  • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
    I asked you to state specifically what you think is toxic about soy. So far all you have even got close to responding with is phytoestrogens, which are found in all plants we consume and are significantly weaker than the real estrogens in the beef you consume.
    Really? That's not the conclusion the authors of this article: Interaction of Estrogenic Chemicals and Phytoestrogens with Estrogen Receptor β . Their conclusion?
    In summary, while the estrogenic potency of industrial-derived estrogenic chemicals is very limited, the estrogenic potency of phytoestrogens is significant, especially for ERβ, and they may trigger many of the biological responses that are evoked by the physiological estrogens.

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    • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
      ...

      And again, this applies to the beef industry as well. For example, did you just see the news report last night where cows that could not even walk were being put in to the food supply in violation of the law. And where is most of that meat going? To the nations school districts. The beef industry is in business as well to make money. Is there unethical and illegal activity going on in the industry. Definitely. So how can you trust the research funded by the beef industry?
      More media hysteria. According to Meatingplace.com, the lead article this morning said: USDA sees no food safety violation apparent in Central Valley Meat video (updated). There may have been humane handling issues, but their conclusion? Quote:“Our top priority is to ensure the safety of the food Americans feed their families,” said Al Almanza, administrator of the Food Safety and Inspection Service. “We have reviewed the video and determined that, while some of the footage provided shows unacceptable treatment of cattle, it does not show anything that would compromise food safety. Therefore, we have not substantiated a food safety violation at this time. We are aggressively continuing to investigate the allegations.” Endquote

      Doesn't sound like beef funding research to me.

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      • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
        U.S. Wellness Meats is part of the beef industry that the WAPF claims to have no ties with. So now we have evidence of their ties to both the beef and dairy industries they claim to have no ties to. So what else has WAPF lied about?
        I didn't get the same opinion you did, James. In your view, then, everybody who raises a backyard cow is either part of the beef industry, or the dairy industry. "Industry" is the operative word. People who raise their own food as a protest against mass-raised CAFO meats and farmed fish are totally at odds with the industry. Wellness Meats is NOT part of the CAFO beef industry,any more than raw milk advocates are part of the dairy INDUSTRY. I think your use of the term "lies" referring to WAPF ties is both misleading and mistaken.

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        • While I like the WAPF site (particularly the stuff by chriss masterjohn), I do wish they would take down their section on Homeopathy. It hurts their credibility in my eyes.
          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

          Griff's cholesterol primer
          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
          bloodorchid is always right

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          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
            While I like the WAPF site (particularly the stuff by chriss masterjohn), I do wish they would take down their section on Homeopathy. It hurts their credibility in my eyes.
            What? Seriously? Uggggggh.
            Steph
            My Primal Meanderings

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            • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
              While I like the WAPF site (particularly the stuff by chriss masterjohn), I do wish they would take down their section on Homeopathy. It hurts their credibility in my eyes.
              Originally posted by onalark View Post
              What? Seriously? Uggggggh.
              Yeah, that's one of the things I don't like about them either but that doesn't make them the paid lackeys of the beef and dairy industries. It just makes them look a bit silly, IMO. Some of their followers are really into that stuff though and there are quite a few people around here who are too. To each their own.

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              • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                Oh nooooooos! Meat contains precursors! And glucose and fatty acids! And phospholipids! Scary! Lions and Tigers and Bears..... Oh my!
                Its these kind of stupid, childish responses that really bring threads down quickly. If you don't have anything significant to provide why don't you just stay out of it.

                The primary point being made was that many meats are pro-inflammatory, which still holds true. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

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                • Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                  All of what you said may be true (or not), but my point still stands that beef fat is not very high in omega-6 fatty acids. It is incredibly low in those.
                  And again, people are not making meals out of beef fat. We are talking about beef. And furthermore, what is a significant amount? In other words, exactly how much omega 6 fatty acids does it take to promote inflammation? The reason I bring this up is because many things have major effects on the body in trace amounts such as hormones. And meats like beef have been linked to diseases such as heart disease. Therefore, what constitutes a significant amount will depend on the amount required to have an inflammatory effect on the body. So what is that amount?

                  Also keep in mind that there are still other precursors for inflammatory arachidonic acid in beef that also have to be considered.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                    . And meats like beef have been linked to diseases such as heart disease. Therefore, what constitutes a significant amount will depend on the amount required to have an inflammatory effect on the body. So what is that amount?

                    Also keep in mind that there are still other precursors for inflammatory arachidonic acid in beef that also have to be considered.

                    Grain fed beef, hormone enhanced beef, processed beef have been linked to heart disease, natural grass feed beef...no.

                    So in other words the same people who think soy is good, who think grains are good, who poison our livestock (and us) with grain and hormone enhanced beef have created that link.
                    Last edited by Dirlot; 08-24-2012, 10:25 PM.
                    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                    PS
                    Don't forget to play!

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                    • Give it up James. A pro-soy, anti-beef campaign just doesn't work really well on a Primal site. You will have to find other forums for the soy industry lobby to pay you to post on.

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                      • Soy is also SHITE for the kidneys (very high oxalates)... I'll be sticking to cod fish in my miso soup.
                        Yeah, I know the Miso part is a "cheat"... but replacing the tofu part is definitely healthier!

                        I'm hanging my head as I limit myself to a couple of bowls per year.
                        *Edit- Yes, ANOTHER thing I have to give up.
                        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                          Soy is also SHITE for the kidneys (very high oxalates)... I'll be sticking to cod fish in my miso soup.
                          Yeah, I know the Miso part is a "cheat"... but replacing the tofu part is definitely healthier!

                          I'm hanging my head as I limit myself to a couple of bowls per year.
                          *Edit- Yes, ANOTHER thing I have to give up.
                          You could also cook up some eggs frittata style and then cut it into chunks for the soup. I think the egg would soak up the broth flavor nicely.
                          I only have one kidney (born that way) so I like to take good care of it. Good to know about soy and oxalates.

                          Comment


                          • The fermenting does not do away with the oxalates... there fore the Miso is as suspect as the tofu in this case... as are the other fermented products like soy sauce/tamari/tempeh.

                            In the case of tempeh and textured soy protein like "soy burgers" the oxalate leves are huge... as it becomes concentrated.

                            I'm sure for average folks with normal healthy kidneys, no big deal, drink lots of water and all...
                            But with me on TWO meds which are both known for independently turning peoples kidneys into stone factories... and causing actual damage.
                            Put both meds into one body and...
                            I'll just stick the diet... and skip the soy most of the time.
                            I'll save it for special indulgences.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by onalark View Post
                              What? Seriously? Uggggggh.
                              I don't understand your post, sorry.

                              You didn't know that WAPF promotes homeopathy? Or you can't understand my opposition to homeopathy?
                              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                              Griff's cholesterol primer
                              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                              bloodorchid is always right

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                                And again, people are not making meals out of beef fat. We are talking about beef. And furthermore, what is a significant amount? In other words, exactly how much omega 6 fatty acids does it take to promote inflammation? The reason I bring this up is because many things have major effects on the body in trace amounts such as hormones. And meats like beef have been linked to diseases such as heart disease. Therefore, what constitutes a significant amount will depend on the amount required to have an inflammatory effect on the body. So what is that amount?

                                Also keep in mind that there are still other precursors for inflammatory arachidonic acid in beef that also have to be considered.
                                No, mot people are not making meals out of beef fat (Knifegill, I know you do include tallow in your diet most days and that is awesome). But this fat is the same that is in the muscle meat that most people are eating. My only point, which you still seem to be ignoring, is that beef is very low in omega-6 fats, not "very high" as you claimed. Soybean oil is very high in omega-6 fats. Yes, edamame and most other soy products are fairly low in total fat, but let's take a look.

                                Since you seem hung up on me using beef fat instead of meat, let's use another example:

                                A 236g ribeye steak has 625 calories and 1 gram of omega-6 fats.
                                Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Beef, rib, eye, small end (ribs 10-12), separable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat, choice, cooked, broiled [ribeye]

                                A 180g serving of boiled green soybeans has 254 calories and 4.7g of omega-6 fats.
                                Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Soybeans, green, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt

                                So, for about half the calories, you're getting twice as much omega-6 from soybeans. Which one is high in omega-6? I can't tell, James. I need your superior scientific skills to help me figure this one out.
                                Last edited by yodiewan; 08-25-2012, 06:45 AM.

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