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Vegatarian and being primal?

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  • Vegatarian and being primal?

    I was vegetarian for a long time, but decided that I do miss meat at times so I include it in my diet here and there. Just wondering how the primal elitists feel about vegetarians/vegans, do you think they are doomed in life? I know some vegetarians/vegans and they are in impeccable health, and they live on grains, pasta, legumes, beans, etc. One important and alarming issue I have seen on this forum is people who never had high cholesterol problems, now have them. I have never meet a vegetarian with high cholesterol. Just wondering if they are any primal vegetarians out there?

  • #2
    How is high cholesterol a problem?
    Crohn's, doing SCD

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
      How is high cholesterol a problem?
      Quite akin to taking the blue pill or the red pill....one leads to truth, but the other is quite comfortable and considered the normal accepted range.

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      • #4
        Take the red pill!
        Female, age 51, 5' 9"
        SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

        Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
        2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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        • #5
          For one thing, without eating fish, vegetarians don't get any anti-inflammatory omega 3's to fight off all of the inflammatory omega 6's so there's a major heart attack risk, as well as the other things inflammation does to you. Also, depending on what you specifically eat, you may not get all of your essential amino acids or have an imbalance of them and end up with a deficiency. By cutting out meat, you also miss out on all of the fat soluble vitamins and heart healthy monounsaturated fat. You can also end up with deficiencies in minerals like iron, magnesium, calcium, potassium because of all of the phytates you're eating in the grains and legumes. So yeah, vegetarians are pretty much f***ed. They won't drop dead instantly but over time, all of the deficiencies will take their toll and something will go wrong.

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          • #6
            You can do it as a vegetarian eating eggs and some high fat dairy, and being a pescatarian would be even better.

            As a strict vegan? No way.

            And I'm with Knifegill - why is high cholesterol an issue? I'd be more worried about low cholesterol and high triglycerides.
            Durp.

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            • #7
              My cholesterol when I was a vegetarian had my doctor threatening statins even though I was in my 20s. And I was a pescatarian vegetarian. I have no idea if my high meat diet has made it worse, though.

              Sometimes I really miss beans, lentils and tahini. I might have a big huge vegetarian dinner some day as a cheat meal.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                I might have a big huge vegetarian dinner some day as a cheat meal.
                Years ago, did you ever think you'd be saying something like this?
                Durp.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Barefoot Gentile View Post
                  I was vegetarian for a long time, but decided that I do miss meat at times so I include it in my diet here and there. Just wondering how the primal elitists feel about vegetarians/vegans, do you think they are doomed in life? I know some vegetarians/vegans and they are in impeccable health, and they live on grains, pasta, legumes, beans, etc. One important and alarming issue I have seen on this forum is people who never had high cholesterol problems, now have them. I have never meet a vegetarian with high cholesterol. Just wondering if they are any primal vegetarians out there?
                  Yes there are Primal vegetarians out there, and opinion is divided as to the merits of it. A quick use of the forum search function should reveal many lengthy and interesting discussions on this. Here's one for starters. I can't think of any specific names of forum vegetarians, but I'm sure they'll pop up in due course. And then it depends on your definition of vegetarian. I know people who call themselves vegetarian but eat fish. I've never understood that one.

                  As for cholesterol, you'd be best off reading Mark's posts on cholesterol (or the section in the PB book). A lot of people here don't think high cholesterol is a problem, and they're probably right (depending on the type of cholesterol). It's considered one of the great fallacies of CW that high cholesterol = about to drop dead, and low cholesterol = no heart attack.

                  I'd be careful about saying that you know lots of vegans/vegetarians that are in impeccable health. Do you really know what's going on inside their arteries in terms of plaque build up and inflammation? So many people die far earlier than they should - and how many times do you hear "I don't understand. He/she was a vegetarian and used to run 6-miles five times a week" or something similar. I hear it too often to not think that there's more at play than total cholesterol readings.
                  Last edited by Englishman in Oz; 08-18-2012, 09:57 PM.
                  My Journal: Englishman In Oz, Skinny to Muscle in a Primal Way

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                  • #10
                    yes, it's entirely possible and there are vegetarian primals.

                    you can eat meat once a day or once a month or whatever you want. no bigs.

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                    • #11
                      What is high cholesterol?
                      Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
                      READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

                      Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food. Anthony Bourdain

                      and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

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                      • #12
                        I was veggie and had high cholesterol.

                        Has anyone pointed you to the Cholesterol primer? http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread4723.html?

                        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        Sometimes I really miss beans, lentils and tahini. I might have a big huge vegetarian dinner some day as a cheat meal.
                        lol.
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

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                        • #13
                          To the OP, I think that vegetarians can eat very healthily depending on what 'flavour' they are (there are lots of high quality fish and egg protein sources out there). Vegans can be ok too as long as they supplement B12 (although that is a big one). I think it's hard to criticise vegans for needing to take supplements when a lot of people on here are taking dietary supplements.

                          Once you scratch the skin of a primal/paleo/vege/vegan person, I think that there are a lot more similarities than differences. All of them care about what they eat, presumably think that processed and industrially produced food is bad for you, etc etc. It's just that some veggies have a moral dimension to their choice of dietary restriction, which seems like it's not necessarily aligned with best nutrition (because if it was, you could make the argument solely on the grounds of nutrition, without emotional/moral appeals).
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

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                          • #14
                            I think some people do very well on a vegetarian diet! I was a vegetarian for a few years (for ethical reasons, too!) I basically stopped a few months ago and became pescetarian, and then started primal and went whole hog and started eating meat again. I didn't really WANT to eat meat, but I actually feel better, I have lost a bit of weight AND my hair's stopped falling out so much!! It's amazing how little I lose when I brush it these days . (This is very exciting as I'd had quite a few major shedding episodes, and even when I wasn't shedding I seemed to lose a lot of hair, and it was getting very thin and stringy... if things continue the way they are in 4 or so years my hair will look good again ).

                            Hair may not be something major BUT to me it's an indication that things weren't 100% right in my body... I can't say why, as the diet I ate seemed to be very good... but it is said that when your health suffers, things like hair and nails are the first to go, so I can only assume that internally things were not as good as they could be. I had no MAJOR health issues at all (at least none I know about!) but the fact that my hair has stopped falling suggests my body is suddenly getting something it NEEDS that I missed out on as a vegetarian. And, really, the most major difference in my diet is that I now eat meat!

                            That being said, I know vegans with thick, luscious hair... I just think, we're not all the same, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for another!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Englishman in Oz View Post

                              I'd be careful about saying that you know lots of vegans/vegetarians that are in impeccable health. Do you really know what's going on inside their arteries in terms of plaque build up and inflammation? So many people die far earlier than they should - and how many times do you hear "I don't understand. He/she was a vegetarian and used to run 6-miles five times a week" or something similar. I hear it too often to not think that there's more at play than total cholesterol readings.
                              You could say the same about primal eaters, no?

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