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Oh, no. Health Care passes. Glad I'm Primal.

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  • #31
    1



    I have to admit that I'm torn on the idea. I feel we should strive for what's best for us. But, I have friends who are small business owners who have no or a limited insurance plan. And I watch them struggle when something goes wrong.

    For me, it's not an issue. I work for a corporation that provides benefits at a cost. Is gov't run insurance better than privately run? I'm not sure. But like someone said earlier above, the gov't just gonna do what the private industry is already doing.

    Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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    • #32
      1



      Because that's how the flow chart for EVERY law ends if you don't obey.

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      • #33
        1



        Regarding the above posted 'largest woman alive'... no doubt we were paying for her already. In fact, we are paying for any number of people who don't have health care, so I personally don't see the big deal about this bill.

        Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
        Current weight: 199
        Goal: 145

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        • #34
          1



          But this one is seriously easy to obey. And beneficial to the greater good (the more people that pay in, the lower the cost for everyone). It's just like paying taxes. Sure, it's not fair, but it's a system that works for the most part, and provides vital services for the public.

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          • #35
            1



            I don't care. I'd like to, but I've been priced out of the market.


            And I don't care how "easy" it is to obey.

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            • #36
              1



              Well aren't you a rebel then.


              Personally, i'd like to know that if one of my kids gets hurt, i can get them the care needed without worrying about losing my house too. I couldn't do that yesterday, but i can be a little more optimistic about it today.

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              • #37
                1



                Being from Canada, I'm not sure I understand what the debate is all about. Although our system is not perfect, and has been erroded in the past 20 years (a lot of the tax money that use to pay for the system came from industrial and environmental taxes that have now been removed due to trade agreements and coorporate "favoritism"), I still know that if I get seriously hurt, it won't cost me a dime.


                I've had 2 or 3 accidents that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars in the US, and after doing the math (including reduced federal taxes), I would not be able to afford private insurance - and I have university degrees, so this goes for many people.


                In no way shape or form does the Canadian government control what I eat and what I can buy. Considering that local produce and meat is becoming more available, it's hard to imagine the governement getting their hands dirty in such small operations.


                Also, our system allows for much poorer families to have access to health care. Unfortunately, a lot of people abuse of the system and it is now very inefficient. Colds, sniffles, broken nails, split ends - people seem to take advantage of the system.


                In the end, knowing that if I get a serious desease such as Cancer, my "socialist" country will take care of me and I'll have a fighting chance.


                Canada is losing it's "socialist" identity and it is very upsetting to a lot of people. A lucrative oil "boom" out west has favoured a privatized system while the rest of the country suffers from the consequences.


                I can only hope we regain some of the spirit that made us a great country in the past - even though we've always had our faults, just like any other country.


                Cheers!


                J

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                • #38
                  1



                  PrimalJ, question.

                  A main concern I have is that if I do get 'Cancer', will the government do 'everything possible' to cure me or will I receive minimal care and a 'standard' line of care for my particular 'cancer need'? Or will I still be able to see specialists and try new 'cures' out to see if they may work on me?


                  My biggest fear with govt run insurance is experiencing what I got in the military. A cattle call and all of us being treated the same.


                  Genuine questions. Please don't think I'm being sarcastic.


                  thx

                  jenella

                  Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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                  • #39
                    1



                    Thank you for giving us a peek at the other side, PrimalJ. I've heard some complaints from Canadians about individual issues, but even those that have had to fight for certain things are glad to have the safety net that the system provides in general.


                    I think there are a lot of conservative/Republican scare tactics going around, and it's sending people into a panic over something that just isn't a bad thing.

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                    • #40
                      1



                      PrimalJ, what we're talking about over here in the US is fear, plain and simple. Fear of something different. Fear that our 'best way' is maybe not the best after all. Fear of change. The sheer hysteria over this bill tells me it is fear.


                      We've been brainwashed since the McCarthy era to equate Socialism with Communism. The big enemy. We've been brainwashed to think Capitalism equates to moral superiority, when it is simply a different way of looking at our ourselves.

                      Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
                      Current weight: 199
                      Goal: 145

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                      • #41
                        1



                        I am absolutely thrilled. My son turns 22 in August. He doesn't have a job yet, but he is doing volunteer work at a bird rescue center. We were seriously worried about him not being covered by our health insurance anymore.

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                        • #42
                          1



                          Katt, I think you're right. It's fear, but it's not just the natural fear of something new. People who presently can milk the insurance and medical industries have taken every possible opportunity and spent millions and millions of dollars to augment and spread that fear for political gain and to keep their huge salaries. They truly will balk at nothing. "Death panels" ready to kill granny, when presently insurance companies already ration care and have whole departments of people to go back through records with a fine tooth comb as soon as anyone gets seriously ill, to deny payments. Take the thousands and thousands in premiums for decades as long as they are well, and then deny payment and toss them aside as soon as they look like being an expense.


                          If that isn't a death panel, I can't imagine what is.


                          Kryz, if we could just get the government to stop subsidizing wheat, corn, and soy, which has driven many many small farmers and ranchers and grass-fed dairy farmers out of business (unfairly, by subsidizing cheap grain for feed) we might have a chance of being able to pay for ordinary necessary care, like for accidents, prenatal care, hospital care in epidemics, and the like. At present, we're drowning in auto-immune diseases and obesity and diabetes which our government has subsidized by paying people to grow too much cheap corn.


                          "King Corn", an excellent documentary. I believe Netflix carries it.


                          It seems to me that if we wish to be citizens of a great country which believes in working for the common good, our path is clear: (1) stay Primal so our own health will not be part of the national burden (2) buy local, buy grassfed animal products, and keep your money local, too (credit unions instead of major banks) (and stay out of debt, it fuels the worst abuses in the financial sector, paying high interest) (3) write Congress and the White House over and over again about the insanity of subsidizing corn, wheat, soybeans, feed lots which pollute water with waste and breed antibiotic-resistant bacteria, while providing unhealthy food.


                          And if we pay a few percent of our income to assure that everyone gets basic care without going bankrupt, consider the alternatives. We cannot compete in the world market because our costs of production are too high, and one of the biggest is a for-profit and inefficient health care system which has enriched a few of its executives at the expense of everyone else. As individuals, our average health is so poor that we cannot afford treatment without going bankrupt and losing our homes. This is an inherently wasteful system. Bankruptcy wastes tons of money, plus leaving homes empty to be vandalized and go to pieces, while too many people don't even have a roof over their heads.


                          Strange that some people worry about every damned thing the government asks and does, good or bad, yet they turn a blind eye to what corporations and big business and Wall Street do. To me they are two sides of the same corrupt coin. Just like not every company is run by a devil incarnate, so every government agency is not worthless and autocratic.


                          We have to keep after government and regulate business and especially the financial sector. This cannot be done once and then forgotten about. Clever and unscrupulous people are working night and day to make loopholes and game the system. It's an ongoing process turning government back to working for the common good, and to regulate companies so they don't eat the middle class alive.


                          To a certain extent, we get the government we deserve.

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                          • #43
                            1



                            I'm glad that our dysfunctional congress was actually able to get something on the agenda passed. Even if the bill is questionable, it's good to know our political system isn't entirely incapable.


                            That being said, free market health insurance with healthy competition is important, and I'm honestly not qualified to assess whether this bill will move us closer to that state or further away from it. I strongly hope for the former.


                            The big thing that scares me is the growing sense of entitlement in this country. Americans have certain rights, but I never agreed with the argument that Americans have some inherent "right" to medical care. People continue to obliviously neglect their health (sadly in many cases they just don't know any better) and then expect expensive treatment when they get sick.


                            Health insurance is important obviously. If I were to get hit by a car on my bike and I didn't have health insurance I would be screwed. But it only works if the risk to premium ratio is correct. If more people with health insurance file claims...that's more money that insurance companies have to spend, and their rates must rise to cover that expense -- simple economics.


                            It will be really interesting to see how this pans out.

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                            • #44
                              1



                              http://c4ss.org/content/2037


                              Top-down, central planning doesn't work. And it's morally wrong.

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                              • #45
                                1



                                Oh, so you think I'm "rebelling" just to rebel for its own sake?


                                A law against eating bananas on Sunday is counterproductive and morally wrong. I wouldn't "rebel" against that, because I don't eat bananas.


                                This matters to me every bit as much as it does to you.

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