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So after reading marks post about coffee today, i have a query.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    Try Crio Bru instead. It's roasted ground cacao nibs that you brew like coffee. More antioxidants, lower acidity. Just a sugestion
    The pH of coffee barely even puts it in the acidic range... not sure why you're pinning it as some high acidity evil.

    Originally posted by JamesS View Post
    I guess everyone does not realize that you can run hot water through any plant. And drinking the water after doing so with many plants can make one ill or kill them.
    Saying that there exists plants that can kill you has nothing to do with coffee. The same plants that will kill you will kill you whether you eat them in a nice yummy looking primal salad or grind them up and put them in the evil anti-primal Starbucks deathspresso machine.

    Originally posted by JamesS View Post
    And let's not forget all the antinutrients in coffee such as its high oxalic acid content and polyphenols to name a few. The caffeine that raises uric acid, the protease inhibitors and phytoestrogens that anti-soy proponents claim are toxic, etc.
    These same chemicals are in plenty of foods we eat. And I dare say when you eat those foods you get a lot more of it than you do a from a few cups of coffee. I don't know about others but I don't go eating a bowl of coffee beans. I'd probably die of a heart attack before rushing back here to say I told you so. Coffee is pretty much 99% water (yes I just made that up). Oh yeah by the way, water will kill you too if you drink too much of it!

    Originally posted by JamesS View Post
    But the real irony of your post is the fact that caffeine crashes the adrenals. Since the adrenals produce our anti-stress hormones crashing your adrenals with all that caffeine can cause people to lash out in anger over small things like someone posting research studies on the adverse effects of coffee.
    I'm not sure whether you're joking or serious, but I sure as heck can vouch for the crankiness of people who haven't had their coffee

    Don't get me wrong, I think it's silly to promote it as "healthy", but I also don't see it as some horrible thing that will kill you. And whoever mentioned cancer, let's play a game: You name a food, I'll find an article linking that food to cancer.
    -Chuck

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    • #32
      For every article you find about why coffee is bad, you can find one about why it is good. And just because Mark says it's primal, doesn't mean it's good for you. He also says he puts a pinch of sugar in it, yes SUGAR! But he also says he only drinks a cup of it a day. I follow Mark because he is practical. He considers the pros/cons, and tries to eat as close to perfect as possible but is also realistic about our needs in this day and age and makes the necessary compromises. Maybe it's not truly primal from a hunter gatherer perspective, but it's not going to kill you, doesn't have any negative health impacts for most people, and life is meant to be lived and enjoyed so why not?

      It's really going to depend on your health, situation, consumption, ect. to determine whether coffee is going to have a negative impact on you or not. I have given up coffee before for months and was just fine, I started drinking it again because I really like it. I love the taste and I feel a noticeable improvement in my mood, and am just much happier when I have a cup of coffee. But I drink it in moderation and don't rely on it to get me through the day. If you have a cup or two a day and don't rely on, then I don't see the harm in that. If you're drinking half a pot just to get through the day, you may want to consider cutting it out for a while then phasing it back in at much lower doses. Just like many foods, coffee can be an acceptable and healthy addition to your diet, but it can be abused like a drug and have similar negative effects so just be smart about it and don't sweat that morning cup.
      Last edited by elektro; 08-16-2012, 07:02 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
        Dr. Bork Bork, I adore you in all of your well informed cleverness! I just ordered one of each of their six flavors!

        Yay! Don't expect the same punch as joe, but do expect a hot, rich, invigorating flavor. For a real treat, splurge on the Crio Beans. They're like crack. I love 'em!
        Crio Beans - Crio Brü

        I've only tried a few of the original flavors (Cavalla & one other that I don't see on the site and can't remember the name of). I could never get the flavor right for my tastes in my crazy little aeropress, buuuuut... a dessert shop just opened over by Grace's preschool and they serve Crio. They have all the flavors, so I intend to work my way through! The owner even accepted some of my suggestions for flavors and upcoming holiday stuff.

        Remember, if you end up not liking it, you can still use it to top desserts and munch on cuz it's just cacao nibs!
        --Trish (Bork)
        TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
        http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
        FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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        • #34
          Dr. BB, if there are any other unusual items like Crio that comes to your mind, please, if you don't mind, can you list them here? I can't tell you how excited I am to try this (and my 93 year old Dad & 9 year old son are looking forward to trying it, too!)
          SW: 243
          CW: 177
          Goal: Health

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          • #35
            Originally posted by JamesS View Post
            Since the adrenals produce our anti-stress hormones crashing your adrenals with all that caffeine can cause people to lash out in anger over small things like someone posting research studies on the adverse effects of coffee.
            lol. Interesting use of logic...!
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

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            • #36
              Actually, I adore coffee, but in the last few weeks I've noticed that I'm losing my taste for it... Has this happened to anyone else while on Primal?
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

              Comment


              • #37
                Coffee quality varies greatly. Coffee is also packed full of mycotoxins. David Asprey talks a lot about this on his BulletproofExec site.

                Recently it's been found that the molecular structure of coffee is similar to gluten. If you ate gluten intolerant, it'd be best to stay away.

                I rarely drink coffee. I don't have the best reaction to it.
                A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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                • #38
                  Also: dear James, Yerba mate doesn't contain caffeine but a similar substance. Mateen? I do t know the spelling. It doesn't give you jitters or make you crash.

                  I love, love, LOVE Yerba mate!
                  A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                  Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

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                  • #39
                    I think this is what you are talking about, Patski. from this site :http://www.latinmerchant.com/yerba_mate_information.asp

                    Ingredients/Composition of Yerba Maté:

                    Despite claims to the contrary, Yerba maté does contain caffeine although the level is relatively low compared to coffee or tea. Yerba maté also contains significant amounts of vitamins and minerals and other chemicals of note such as theobromine and theophylline.

                    Mate contains xanthines, which are alkaloids in the same family as caffeine, theophylline, and theobromine, well-known stimulants also found in coffee and chocolate. Sellers of mate products often claim that the primary active xanthine in mate is "mateine", which they say is similar to caffeine but with fewer of its negative effects.

                    Mate contains numerous vitamins and minerals. There is the usual array of resins, fiber, volatile oil, and tannins that characterize many plant substances. And there is also carotene; vitamins A. C, E, B-1, B-2 and B-complex; riboflavin; nicotinic acid; pantothenic acid; biotin; magnesium; calcium; iron; sodium; potassium; manganese; silicon; phosphates; sulfur; hydrochloric acid; chlorophyll; choline; and inositol. In 1964 one group of investigators from the Pasteur Institute and the Paris Scientific Society concluded that Mate contains practically all of the vitamins necessary to sustain life.

                    In addition to the regular nutrients, Mate contains a substance belonging to a specialized class of chemical compounds called xanthines. Though only small amounts of these substances occur in Mate, their presence has generated a huge amount of attention. The primary xanthine in Yerba Mate is called Mateine. Mateine appears to possess the best combination of xanthine properties possible. For example, like other xanthines, it stimulates the central nervous system; but unlike most, it is not habituating or addicting. Likewise, unlike caffeine, it induces better, not worse, attributes of sleep. It is a mild, not a strong, diuretic, as are many xanthines. It relaxes peripheral blood vessels, thereby reducing blood pressure, without the strong effects on the medulla oblongata (end part of the brain connecting to the spine) and heart exhibited by some xanthines. We also know that it improves psychomotor performance without the typical xanthine-induced depressant after effects.

                    Researchers at the Free Hygienic Institute of Hamburg, Germany, concluded that even if there were caffeine in Mate, the amount would be so tiny that it would take 100 tea bags of Mate in a 6-ounce cup of water to equal the caffeine in a 6-ounce serving of regular coffee. Consequently, the active principle in Yerba Mate is not caffeine!
                    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-17-2012, 02:08 PM. Reason: add link

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                    • #40
                      Coffee has many great benefits. See link below.

                      Ray Peat Forum - Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen
                      Last edited by charliemathers; 08-17-2012, 02:29 PM.
                      Ray Peat Forum
                      "A place to discuss everything Ray Peat"

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                      • #41
                        Thanks Robin for that awesome info. Despite my sapped adrenals, maybe I *can* continue drinking my mate?
                        A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                        Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by patski View Post
                          Thanks Robin for that awesome info. Despite my sapped adrenals, maybe I *can* continue drinking my mate?
                          I honestly don't know on that. I would suggest asking your endo MD. For me the prohibition on caffeine is about my epilepsy. I am trying out some yerba mate (which is seriously yummy) to see if I have a similar reaction.

                          So far it does seem to feel like a stimulant but without the jittery factor of caffeine and without any "crash" afterwards.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KerryK View Post
                            Dr. BB, if there are any other unusual items like Crio that comes to your mind, please, if you don't mind, can you list them here? I can't tell you how excited I am to try this (and my 93 year old Dad & 9 year old son are looking forward to trying it, too!)
                            Define unusual.
                            If you're looking for something that tastes like coffee, try Teecino. It's herbal coffee. Tastes like joe, smells like joe, but it's made from herbs. It's not primal since they use barley, but we were already arguing that coffee in itself isn't paleo.
                            I confess I like their "tee"bags better than the grounds (again cuz I can never get the flavor right when I use my aeropress). Vanilla nut is a good starter flavor.

                            ETA: I also want to put a good word in for Republic of Tea & Zhena's Gypsy Tea. Both have pretty sensational chocolate teas. RoT has red velvet rooibos, and Zhena has chocolate chai. *does the herbal tea Snoopy dance*
                            Last edited by Dr. Bork Bork; 08-17-2012, 05:53 PM.
                            --Trish (Bork)
                            TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
                            http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
                            FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
                              Yay! Don't expect the same punch as joe, but do expect a hot, rich, invigorating flavor. For a real treat, splurge on the Crio Beans. They're like crack. I love 'em!
                              Crio Beans - Crio Brü

                              I've only tried a few of the original flavors (Cavalla & one other that I don't see on the site and can't remember the name of). I could never get the flavor right for my tastes in my crazy little aeropress, buuuuut... a dessert shop just opened over by Grace's preschool and they serve Crio. They have all the flavors, so I intend to work my way through! The owner even accepted some of my suggestions for flavors and upcoming holiday stuff.

                              Remember, if you end up not liking it, you can still use it to top desserts and munch on cuz it's just cacao nibs!
                              Thank you Dr. BB, I ordered 2 bags and had my first cup this afternoon. (The Cavalla). It was awesome!! It's the perfect afternoon pick me up, without the high amount of caffeine in coffee.

                              I hope the health benefits are somewhat legit, I was a bit worried when I saw the area it's from. (I LOVE the SLC area, but the area around Provo and south of it are littered with "scammy" health product companies.) I sure do miss the mountains.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I believe in it, bob!
                                I remembered the other flavor I tried before that I didn't see at the website. I popped over to Decadence for a Red Velvet Crio Frappe and they had ALL the flavors on the shelves... it was Vega Real. I liked that one best.
                                I wish y'all could live over here and help support Decadence and their Crio endeavour. I mean to keep it in business single handedly.

                                and just a thought... I dunno how scammy you can get on a product like Crio Bru. I mean it's cacao nibs. Everyone knows how awesome cacao is!
                                Last edited by Dr. Bork Bork; 08-17-2012, 07:18 PM.
                                --Trish (Bork)
                                TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
                                http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
                                FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

                                Comment

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