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Trying to add mass to my frame - struggling!!!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by tfarny View Post
    My opinion is that the evils of pasteurization are greatly overstated, raw does carry a non-negligible risk, and it's easy to get unhomogenized and minimally pasteurized milk. Which is a pretty awesome tool to meet your goals.
    I'm not worried at all about pasteurization so the raw issue isn't one for me. It has to do with the milking of cows in particular, and how it is done during pregnancy when estrogen levels are highest. This in turn, increases the estrogen levels in milk accordingly, which other non-Western nations don't do. In fact, most of the world consumes goat/sheep dairy, not cow dairy. Which is interesting because it makes you wonder with all the research that shows milk's health benefits, and lack of health detriment, was the research done on goats/sheep or cow dairy? I would suspect sheep/goat.

    Originally posted by ThePrimalOhioan View Post
    I am then out of options :-)... maybe you did reach your genetic potential as someone stated earlier.

    However I was speaking to a friend today who started the 20 rep squat routine last week, and he's up to 196 from 187! 9lbs in a week! He's tall with a thin wiry frame so he's stoked. I thought I might mention that for you or anyone.
    I'm going to start doing the 5/3/1 protocol and focus on the big four lifts, exclusively. That will be in conjusction to an Anabolic diet type routine on paleo/primal. However, it won't be until I can settle things down which won't be for a few months at least. I'm leaving my surgery to move on elsewhere and as such, have a transition coming And right now, I simply can't do what I want with regards to my training.

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    • #32
      Just wanted to add that I just weighed in after work, no dinner yet, and was at 200 lbs. It's been a few weeks since my last 195 weigh in so I am adding mass. BF appears unchanged. Lets see how this goes!

      I think I've just been consciously adding in more food whenever possible, and can now usually get in an easy 3000 calories by lunch time. Which is exactly what I did today

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      • #33
        Thats great! Sounds like youre inching along, but tenacity always wins out! Give us an update on how and what youre doing... might help some hard gainers

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        • #34
          Great thread, thanks for all the info! Congrats on your progress .

          I'm interested in what exactly you're consuming on an average day now to reach a high amount of calories.

          A list of top ten high calorie primal-approved foods would be great for someone like me trying to gain weight. Loads of discussion on dairy. My system does not handle dairy very well, so I'm looking for alternatives? Seems like sweet potatoes and nuts are viable options, which I'm already including in my diet.

          The forums seem to focus on weight loss mostly.

          Comment


          • #35
            Muscle building is ALL about genetics. Yes, no matter what ones potential is, there are methods that can maximize them more efficiently than others. But that is it. At some point if we are sane, we accept what our potential is. That doesn't mean don't train if you enjoy the process. By all means do it. But eventually we all must evaluate how much return we are getting for our investment. In other words is it REALLY worth several days a week in the gym and the analysis of every morsel of food we ingest, all to put on what, a pound or three of muscle if that?

            It is very liberating to accept what we've been given. Then we can go in do a few really intense sets, get out and enjoy the many other fun things that life has to offer. Then we come back in about a week give or take a few days and do it again. We find that the end result is a physique that is very much what it would be were we training longer and more frequently. Any miniscule difference is just that and not worth it when you factor in the time involved and that fact that you feel much better on a daily basis doing so much less.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Forever Young View Post
              But eventually we all must evaluate how much return we are getting for our investment. In other words is it REALLY worth several days a week in the gym and the analysis of every morsel of food we ingest, all to put on what, a pound or three of muscle if that?
              Why be ordinary when you can be extraordinary? Adding three pounds of muscle or getting rid of the love handles doesn't sound like much, but it makes a world of difference. Mostly because very few people have the willpower and determination to do it.
              Yeah, my grammar sucks. Deal with it!

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              • #37
                I never said a thing about having love handles. That BTW is almost entirely diet related anyway. Like I said we each must evaluate on our own whether or not the time and energy spent are indeed worth the results or lack thereof.

                I have never settled for ordinary either.

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                • #38
                  If you think you're struggling with 6'5"/200lbs, try being an just inch shorter than that but 40lbs lighter. I stepped on the scale this morning for the first time in about a month, and it went 159...160...159...160. I have been trying to pound back about 3000+ calories a day and I've scaled my training back from 5 to 4 to 3 days a week, now I'm seriously considering 2. The more I eat, the more I stay the same...it's like my body is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics. I'm stronger than I've ever been (which really isn't much), but I've hit a wall on all of my lifts, because I just don't have the mass to build any more strength. In addition to dropping almost 30lbs I didn't know I could even lose, my pant size has dropped from a snug 32 to needing a belt to keep up 30s. Looks like I'm a 29, but I can't psychologically bring myself to buy jeans in a size I haven't worn since grade 10. Oddly enough though, my chest has gained an inch and is an even 40"...so at least I have attained a little more of that coveted "v" shape....even if it's lower-case. And explaining this to anyone outside of this community? "Oh, you just need to eat bread like a normal person", or "Boo-hoo, I wish I had your problems".

                  So....yes, I have a reasonable amount of muscle tone/definition now, but you can also see every vein on my arms, every tendon in my neck and my heartbeat through my back. And I now have jump up and down to lower the loading dock ramp at work. You want the definition of a hard-gainer? *YO*.
                  Last edited by friesonmyburger; 08-21-2012, 09:17 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Forever Young View Post
                    Muscle building is ALL about genetics. Yes, no matter what ones potential is, there are methods that can maximize them more efficiently than others. But that is it. At some point if we are sane, we accept what our potential is. That doesn't mean don't train if you enjoy the process. By all means do it. But eventually we all must evaluate how much return we are getting for our investment. In other words is it REALLY worth several days a week in the gym and the analysis of every morsel of food we ingest, all to put on what, a pound or three of muscle if that?

                    It is very liberating to accept what we've been given. Then we can go in do a few really intense sets, get out and enjoy the many other fun things that life has to offer. Then we come back in about a week give or take a few days and do it again. We find that the end result is a physique that is very much what it would be were we training longer and more frequently. Any miniscule difference is just that and not worth it when you factor in the time involved and that fact that you feel much better on a daily basis doing so much less.
                    I actually do agree with what you're saying & that is the harsh reality of life.. Genetics predetermine pretty much everything about our life.. We can only maximize what genetic cards we've been dealt..

                    HOWEVER, imo (& observation) I'd say 99% (if not 99.9%) of walking human life is no where near their genetic potential.. To look like Arnold Swartz. is not realistic unless you've been dealt that genetic, but I don't think anyones really reaching for that anymore..

                    Building muscle for me isn't about maximize SIZE.. Its actually about finding that perfect balance where my energy is high @ all points during the day, I stay relatively lean all year, my mind is clear, confidence stays high, & yeah maybe put on a few pounds lbs of lean tissue per year.. MOST people need to cut bodyfat, MOST people are no where near their genetic potential in lean tissue capacity.. MOST people have damaged metabolisms.. This lifestyle fixes all of that

                    I personally have fallen in love with the process of getting in shape.. Looking good is just a byproduct of enjoying the process of reaching for my genetic ceiling.. Similar to business, the goal isn't to MAKE a lot of $$, the goal is to do something you enjoy & then the $$ just happens..

                    More importantly than the "let down" of ones genetic ceiling is the ride along the way in acheiving..the grueling workouts, planning primal meals, eating clean & eliminating toxins to feed my healthy body, fending off illness, maximizing a healthy immune system, living to be 110 years.. I'm reaching for that, not some arbitrary number of how much muscle my genetics will allow me to put on.. My committment to this clean & primal living has bled over into all other aspects of my life.. the fundamentals of primal living can improve every aspect of your life..

                    See the bigger picture.. lugging around gigantic muscles looks ridiculous anyway.. Not sure who still thinks that looks good
                    Last edited by abc123; 08-21-2012, 09:19 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Hey, most never have to worry about lugging around gigantic muscles! Its simply not that easy for the vast majority of people out there.

                      For me it is absolutely about feeling great, being healthy and staying that way for as long as possible. There is also a part of the process that I enjoy.

                      I see so many posts here where people are really struggling or perhaps they have unrealistic expectations. I've been there and went through all of the peaks and valleys. I'm at a point in the journey where I know for ME just what I need in order to be at my best. With that knowledge comes the wisdom to know when and where my efforts are yielding anything more in the way of worthwhile results.

                      I'm way past worrying about genetic potential and the like. I completely get it. For the record, I carry more muscle mass than the average guy too. Again, that is just how I'm built. Training has enhanced that for sure but there are definite limits and most of us get pretty close if we are really serious and dedicated in a pretty short time. Then we can take on new challenges in the gym to keep it fresh. We can work on getting leaner for a period of time or improve our endurance. Its ALL about the big picture at the end of the day!!

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                      • #41
                        Well this thread started out by discussing how to solve the OP's issue. Now it's turned to questioning the whole intent. I am avoiding gaining mass myself in favor of gaining raw strength. However, everyone's goals are different, some don't find it enough to be simply "in shape" which is a very vague term, some strive to be more. So I and many others have given their input on solving the OP's dilemma without judgement or preaching.

                        I personally would have discouraged anyone to not gain any more mass, but again that's not the question or intent of this thread. If discouraging mass gaining is your intent, start a new thread.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by friesonmyburger View Post
                          If you think you're struggling with 6'5"/200lbs, try being an just inch shorter than that but 40lbs lighter. I stepped on the scale this morning for the first time in about a month, and it went 159...160...159...160. I have been trying to pound back about 3000+ calories a day and I've scaled my training back from 5 to 4 to 3 days a week, now I'm seriously considering 2. The more I eat, the more I stay the same...it's like my body is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics. I'm stronger than I've ever been (which really isn't much), but I've hit a wall on all of my lifts, because I just don't have the mass to build any more strength. In addition to dropping almost 30lbs I didn't know I could even lose, my pant size has dropped from a snug 32 to needing a belt to keep up 30s. Looks like I'm a 29, but I can't psychologically bring myself to buy jeans in a size I haven't worn since grade 10. Oddly enough though, my chest has gained an inch and is an even 40"...so at least I have attained a little more of that coveted "v" shape....even if it's lower-case. And explaining this to anyone outside of this community? "Oh, you just need to eat bread like a normal person", or "Boo-hoo, I wish I had your problems".

                          So....yes, I have a reasonable amount of muscle tone/definition now, but you can also see every vein on my arms, every tendon in my neck and my heartbeat through my back. And I now have jump up and down to lower the loading dock ramp at work. You want the definition of a hard-gainer? *YO*.

                          For you I'd suggest working on a real solid strength base (i.e... 3 to 5 method, 3 to 5 sets of 3 to 5 reps; 3 to 5 workouts per day; and 3 to 5 days rest per workout). Believe or not, the strength training will make your muscles DENSER (i.e. more muscle fibers vice fluid around the muscle fibers) which will make your muscles grow (not as fast) but the muscle you build will be far more functional.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ThePrimalOhioan View Post
                            Well this thread started out by discussing how to solve the OP's issue. Now it's turned to questioning the whole intent. I am avoiding gaining mass myself in favor of gaining raw strength. However, everyone's goals are different, some don't find it enough to be simply "in shape" which is a very vague term, some strive to be more. So I and many others have given their input on solving the OP's dilemma without judgement or preaching.

                            I personally would have discouraged anyone to not gain any more mass, but again that's not the question or intent of this thread. If discouraging mass gaining is your intent, start a new thread.
                            I can see that this is directed at me. I am NOT discouraging anyone from striving to reach their absolute best nor am I judging or preaching. I simply presented another side of it all and something for pondering. I've been at this a very long time and I think I have some worthwhile things to offer. Oh and I'm all about gaining mass!!

                            My angle here was more about realistic expectations after one has been at it in a dedicated way for a good amount of time. I've got news for you! Not everyone can gain a decent amount of mass! Its simply the way it is. Some guys struggle to gain even an appreciable amount and nothing they do will ever change this. For all of us its a process of coming to the point where we realize we are pretty near our ultimate potential where that is concerned. Then the focus is shifted a bit to overall fitness and longevity. This said, I still train like an animal on every rep I perform with the goal being more muscle and strength.

                            Plus you don't get to decide what others can bring here and who should start another thread etc. I have only the best wishes to the OP and I hope that he is able to bust through this plateau. He got lots of decent advice. I provided a different slant.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Whoa! Lots to address; let me try my best!

                              Originally posted by ThePrimalOhioan View Post
                              Thats great! Sounds like youre inching along, but tenacity always wins out! Give us an update on how and what youre doing... might help some hard gainers
                              Thank you! And yes, I will keep everyone posted.

                              Originally posted by Eleshar View Post
                              Great thread, thanks for all the info! Congrats on your progress .

                              I'm interested in what exactly you're consuming on an average day now to reach a high amount of calories.

                              A list of top ten high calorie primal-approved foods would be great for someone like me trying to gain weight. Loads of discussion on dairy. My system does not handle dairy very well, so I'm looking for alternatives? Seems like sweet potatoes and nuts are viable options, which I'm already including in my diet.

                              The forums seem to focus on weight loss mostly.
                              Average day?
                              Brekky at 6am: 4 eggs fried in coconut oil, 1/2 - 1 avocado, 1" slice of goats cheese with egg scramble (started that now), 3 homemade sausage patties with pastured pork, black coffee EDIT Forgot to add that I now have a cup of full fat goats milk yogurt as well

                              2nd brekky (10am): bone broth soup with tons of veggies, and some bone in GF beef, with added EVOO, random goats cheese slices and some form of meat (dried, cured, etc.), tomato, cucumber, pepper, onion, garlic salad with EVOO/apple cider vinegar dressing

                              Lunch (2pm): whatever meat leftovers from the night before (today was some grilled chicken with broccoli and raw cabbage salad on the side with EVOO/ACV dressing

                              Get home from work: shake made with 2 scoops protein, can of coconut milk, cacao nibs and walnuts

                              Later in evening: dinner (again, meat and veggies)

                              Here and there, I made add in some almonds but overall the meal sizes are very large.

                              Originally posted by Forever Young View Post
                              Muscle building is ALL about genetics.
                              I agree with that statement but only to a point. Yes, we can't all look like AS, even with all the gear he was on, but we can get pretty close. Our physique will be different obviously, but if you eat enough, workout well enough, drastic changes can be made. I did it years ago when I got up to 240, and who knows how far I could have gone had I stayed with it. We can all do, just not to the extremes as a few.

                              Originally posted by friesonmyburger View Post
                              If you think you're struggling with 6'5"/200lbs, try being an just inch shorter than that but 40lbs lighter.
                              I fell for ya, I really do. My cousin was the same. 6'4" and weighed in UNDER 140 lbs. However, after some chatting with me, he's now around 180 lbs.

                              Originally posted by abc123 View Post
                              See the bigger picture.. lugging around gigantic muscles looks ridiculous anyway.. Not sure who still thinks that looks good
                              True, but if that is at all in reference to my original post, it isn't what I want. At my height, I would love to be around 220-225, with a sub-10% BF. That's it. Sure, I can get to 240 again and beyond, but it's not what I'm after. Heck, I doubt it would even be as easily attainable to get all big and immobile. I've seen that, and they are almost always certainly on gear, or fat as well.
                              Last edited by MouthDR; 08-22-2012, 04:24 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                3-5 reps is not going to put mass on but will make you strong. Up the reps to 8-15 to get some hypertrophy. Add in peroidization every 4wks, mix things up to stimulate muscle growth. Keep the intensity up and volume high.
                                http://kitoikitchen.blogspot.com/

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