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Trying to add mass to my frame - struggling!!!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MouthDR View Post
    I've been stuck at about 195 lbs now for the longest time, and despite my best efforts to eat as much as I can (including coconut cream protein shakes) it won't budge. [...] I forgot to say that I am approximately 7-8% body fat, so I am rather lean at this point.
    Lean body mass = 180 lbs
    Shredded weight (5% bodyfat) = 190 lbs

    I don't know how tall you are but you're probably very close to your genetic limit. You should consider a professional career as a natural bodybuilder.

    (how do you measure your bodyfat percentage?)
    Yeah, my grammar sucks. Deal with it!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kharnath View Post
      Lean body mass = 180 lbs
      Shredded weight (5% bodyfat) = 190 lbs

      I don't know how tall you are but you're probably very close to your genetic limit. You should consider a professional career as a natural bodybuilder.

      (how do you measure your bodyfat percentage?)
      I wish! No, I'm 6'5" tall, so no, I am not at the bodybuilding physique stage. Everyone that sees me asks if I'm a swimmer: lean, long body with very wide shoulders and narrow hips. I have my BF measured using skin calipers.

      I can't say that I am at my genetic limit. When I was in my very early 20's/late teens, I was 239 lbs with approx. 13% BF. I know what you're going to ask: what did you do then that you aren't doing now??? Truthfully, I don't know apart from the fact that I was eating the standard diets you would see in any muscle mag, along with a ton of supplements. It was a sweet ride until I blew out my shoulder and had to stop lifting for a while. But looking back, I know roughly what I was lifting and I can in many lifts, lift MORE now than I could then?! Not sure what is going on there.

      As I said before, I'm going to be very diligent and make sure I'm getting around 4000-4500 calories a day and will likely do low carb during the week, with a carb re-feed on the weekends - all paleo. We'll see how it goes!

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      • #18
        Ladies and Gentlemen,

        I've skimmed the responses and if I've missed it then I apologize for the reiteration. But lets throw back to the historical figures in the iron game when supplements, steroids, fancy machinery and even benching on a bench was non-existant (they used to do floor-pressing). What did they do to pack on muscle and strength? The answer is far more simple than it needs to be. They squatted, often and heavy. They drank milk, and a lot of it. No other workout creates a growth response in the body like squats. This method has been tested and proven for many many years. Below are great pieces of literature that would be worth the money to buy and read for just this type of program.

        1. "Super Squats" at www.ironmind.com
        2. "Beyond Bodybuilding" at www.dragondoor.com
        3. "The Stolov Squat Program" (not sure where the official site is, a Google search suffices to find the program, this is EXTREMELY intensive and not for the beginner or faint of heart)

        I personally am using "The Russian Squat Assault" from "Beyond Bodybuilding" and it's amazing.

        Throw some iron around and have fun!!!

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        • #19
          There is no magic here, if you are really eating 4000 calories and not gaining weight then, uh, you need to eat more. Since you have an aversion to dairy, you are going to have to find some other food to eat. Or, you could just drink some milk and eat some real carbs for 8-12 weeks and then abstain. You are caught up in the dogma (where reality doesn't exist).

          So, you are eating 4000? It ain't enough. This isn't rocket science and you're not a unique snowflake. Eat 5000, eat 6000. At some point you will start to gain weight. YNDTP

          Milk + Squats for the win.
          "The problem with quoting someone on the Internet is, you never know if it's legit" - Abraham Lincoln

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          • #20
            If you do decide to drink a gallon of whole milk a day make sure it's organic and from pastured cows...I made the mistake of following my brother's advice on drinking a gallon of whole milk a day, except I did it with conventional, Reiter milk (this was before I got into health, fitness and judging food quality). I gained weight, fat and muscle, but my health went down the toilet extremely fast. I did it for about a month and had to quit because of the health complications I began to encounter. I never felt sicker than I did after doing that...When I look back on it now, I just can't imagine the amount of damage I did to my body.

            If you want an amazing bodybuilding recipe, get 1 gallon of raw cow milk and add some blackstrap molasses (usually between 2-4 tbsp per gallon) to the container, shake it vigorously, and then you have an extremely nutrient dense, insulin supplying supplement. Just make sure your not sensitive to dairy and are able to handle the sugar content in both the milk and molasses.

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            • #21
              I have been toying around with the idea of re-introducing dairy. But in the form of goats milk, not cow. Sure, getting pastured cow's milk would be great but here, around me, as far as I know, it is non-existent. The other issue I have with it is that it is extremely high in estrogen (our milk in NA is unnaturally high in estrogen sulfate) and if I'm adding a considerable amount of fat to my frame, well, uh, that is not the look I'm after. I have read Starting Strength literature and even they admit that GOMAD adds a lot of fat. Not what I'm after.

              I'm going to be adding in goats cheese and yogurt and at least (if I can stomach it) a steak a day. I'm going to try this for one month and see how it goes. I'm unfortunately in a major transition period here (with work and residence) and have other priorities beyond my mass gaining, so not sure when I'll be implementing this. But thanks for all your help again.

              The squatting I agree with. When I got to 240, I was doing killer squats and my workouts revolved around that and deads. They still do now, but I was definitely killing it then. Will have to get back on track with my training.

              Looks like I'll bump up to 4500 cals and see what happens. Then 5000 if THAT fails...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by MouthDR View Post
                I have been toying around with the idea of re-introducing dairy. But in the form of goats milk, not cow. Sure, getting pastured cow's milk would be great but here, around me, as far as I know, it is non-existent. The other issue I have with it is that it is extremely high in estrogen (our milk in NA is unnaturally high in estrogen sulfate) and if I'm adding a considerable amount of fat to my frame, well, uh, that is not the look I'm after. I have read Starting Strength literature and even they admit that GOMAD adds a lot of fat. Not what I'm after.

                I'm going to be adding in goats cheese and yogurt and at least (if I can stomach it) a steak a day. I'm going to try this for one month and see how it goes. I'm unfortunately in a major transition period here (with work and residence) and have other priorities beyond my mass gaining, so not sure when I'll be implementing this. But thanks for all your help again.

                The squatting I agree with. When I got to 240, I was doing killer squats and my workouts revolved around that and deads. They still do now, but I was definitely killing it then. Will have to get back on track with my training.

                Looks like I'll bump up to 4500 cals and see what happens. Then 5000 if THAT fails...
                I just added raw goats milk into my diet, and make kefir out of it. Just had my first batch this morning (24 hr ferment). It tasted very sour, but pleasant to me. And, I felt amazing after! Lots of energy and helped my breathing immensely! I'm aiming for raw goat yogurt too, but yogurt is much harder to make than kefir. However, I think kefir is healthier and contains more enzymes and beneficial bacteria, so I may jsut focus on kefir for now. Hopefully it'll help me build muscle and gain weight, too.

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                • #23
                  The milk thing... understood that some can't handle ingesting a lot. In fact, the mention of raw milk has spurred myself into action with getting some. Luckily there's a farmer's market (Sprouts) that sells it just down the street! There are certainly other nutrient dense foods that can be used here like eggs, almonds (and other nuts) and many other alternatives (maybe help others can help me out listing more?). This is a fun discussion...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                    And throw that "____ isn't primal" shit out the window, purposely going out of your way to eat a ton of food and gaining a lot of mass probably isn't primal either - unless you're preparing for famine, or for the harsh winter months, or some shit.
                    This.

                    In the words of Dan John:
                    "First, although there are truly no real 'secrets,' here is the overriding principle: Mass building, like fat loss, has to be done at the exclusion of everything else. A guy with 14 inch arms will ask me about a mass building program, but worry to death about his 'six pack' (meth addicts have six packs, for the record), his cardio, his 'game,' and about five other things. Once you get 16-18 inch arms, I will allow you to worry about all those other things."

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                    • #25
                      Funny I just read an article yesterday by Marty Gallagher... here's the link... http://www.dragondoor.com/manly_and_...253D40731968-9

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ThePrimalOhioan View Post
                        Funny I just read an article yesterday by Marty Gallagher... here's the link... http://www.dragondoor.com/manly_and_...253D40731968-9
                        Agreed! 100%! Amazing article! This is what I believe builds muscle..Nutrients! And a healthy body.

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                        • #27
                          The overview of what everyone has said in this thread goes like this:

                          #1: Utilize big compound lifts (Squats, Deadlifts, Benchpress, Military Press, Pull-Ups), and any variation NO MACHINES!!!
                          #2: Rest, and lots of it (for every 1 day of training, I'd say 1-2 days of rest, purely my opinion however)
                          #3: Eat the most organic, nutrient and calorie dense foods you can find (in my opinion, fancy supplements are worthless, spend your money on good food)
                          #4: Rinse, Repeat...

                          As for set/rep scheme, that's always up for debate and honestly you can pick a program and get results... I personally am doing "Never Lay Down To Train" program from "Beyond Bodybuilding" on Mon/Thurs and "The Russian Squat Assault" (same book) on Tues/Fri. 3 days a week of rest, and lots of yummy organic food. Enjoy!!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ThePrimalOhioan View Post
                            The overview of what everyone has said in this thread goes like this:

                            #1: Utilize big compound lifts (Squats, Deadlifts, Benchpress, Military Press, Pull-Ups), and any variation NO MACHINES!!!
                            #2: Rest, and lots of it (for every 1 day of training, I'd say 1-2 days of rest, purely my opinion however)
                            #3: Eat the most organic, nutrient and calorie dense foods you can find (in my opinion, fancy supplements are worthless, spend your money on good food)
                            #4: Rinse, Repeat...

                            As for set/rep scheme, that's always up for debate and honestly you can pick a program and get results... I personally am doing "Never Lay Down To Train" program from "Beyond Bodybuilding" on Mon/Thurs and "The Russian Squat Assault" (same book) on Tues/Fri. 3 days a week of rest, and lots of yummy organic food. Enjoy!!!
                            What you listed above is exactly what I am currently doing. I usually either train only on M W F's or I'll just train every other day so some weeks 3 times, some 4 times. All are the basic movements, I have no machines. Only a cage, barbell, dumbbells and a ton of plated weights. I buy virtually all my meat from a pastured farm, and all my fruit and veg from an organic source if possible. I feel great, no question. I just wanted to add more mass, and will continue down my path doing what some here have suggested.

                            BTW, I have no issues with dairy. I never have. It never bothered me in the least, and I reckon I could easily drink 4 litres a day. But I choose not to. Unless I can get raw whole milk locally, and be sure that the poor cows hadn't been milked 300 out of 365 days of the year, then I would drink it. But that isn't what we drink here in North America. Are milk is unnaturally high in estrogen (as I already mentioned and no one seems to comment on...?) and THAT is not something this man wants in his body. So goats milk seems a viable alternative.

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                            • #29
                              My opinion is that the evils of pasteurization are greatly overstated, raw does carry a non-negligible risk, and it's easy to get unhomogenized and minimally pasteurized milk. Which is a pretty awesome tool to meet your goals.
                              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                              • #30
                                I am then out of options :-)... maybe you did reach your genetic potential as someone stated earlier.

                                However I was speaking to a friend today who started the 20 rep squat routine last week, and he's up to 196 from 187! 9lbs in a week! He's tall with a thin wiry frame so he's stoked. I thought I might mention that for you or anyone.

                                http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/About_Raw_Milk.html

                                Found the above article too, thought it would fit into this discussion also.
                                Last edited by ThePrimalOhioan; 08-20-2012, 03:51 PM.

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