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Going primal, but not 100%

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  • #46
    Quantifying a way of eating as 50%, 80%, 90% primal is pretty pointless in my opinion.

    A dog has four legs, two eyes and a tail, just like a horse, but you wouldn't say a dog is 80% horse because of those similarities.

    A pizza has a bunch of primal ingredients on it, so would one think a pizza as being 0%, 30%, 50% primal?
    It's all very approximate.

    OP — you're of course not compelled to eat a Primal diet, but eating regular, planned, pizza, bagels and beer and considering yourself 'part primal' is a bit disingenuous. Do those things if you wish, but don't think of it as 50% primal.

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    • #47
      Yeah, i think that's sort of like an argument over definition of terms, though. Like "i need a diet category to fit into, so I"ll say primal, but really, i'm not primal." on the one side, and then on the other side you have "we will defend the definition of primal to the Death! DEATH!"

      Foremost, it's really important to note that no one really cares what anyone else eats or how. But the forum is designed to help people who want to eat primally to meet certain goals that they might have learn from others how to do that (in addition to the book and blog). We can also learn how to manage social issues that we may face.

      Most everyone here is running an "n=1" study on themselves to ascertain what works for them, so you'll find that some people are "100% primal" in whatever way that means, and some are more paleo, and some are a far more loose/comfortable form of primal (having pizza every week or something because they don't see it as an issue to their health). And that's just how it rolls out.

      Main thing is to do what you want.

      The risk, imo, of staying grainy and going primal is that -- in a way -- you're doing both high fat and high carb and there's plenty of evidence that *that* is unhealthy. But, I also wouldn't know where the "tipping point" between "this much is ok, that much is not ok and is now putting you into the danger zone (cue Top Gun Soundtrack)." That's really up for you to decide for yourself.

      So, you know, you might still think we're obsessed cray-cray, but it could be that we've just been doing this longer and have our perspectives 'n stuff.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by sjmc View Post
        If you post positively you'll get positive stuff back : ). People really were just trying to be honest with you, and they're going to defend eating this way because they like it a lot. When you start saying it's obsessive or cultish, people get offended. And it's not just people here who would react that way; people generally find that kind of thing insulting.

        You should check out the success story posts that Mark does on Fridays. Lots of people who are athletic beasts and then find them selves even more athletically beasty after making some changes. I mean you came here, so you know there might be something to it! Hope you stick around!
        SJMC,
        You are a senior member with over a thousand posts. You say people are just defending eating this way and telling the truth.
        ...to quote Nekron... "Pathetic Troll"..."no one here cares what you eat"..."Your retarded brain" .... "I don't debate monkeys".... if you don't see this as obsessive or cultish then maybe you don't know what a cult is. It's a place where no one is allowed to question the doctrine, or to discuss other ways of interpreting it, and anyone who does is ridiculed and driven out because they are seen as a threat to a single world view. I read an interesting FAQ on cholesterol by a former member of this forum named Griff, who quit after being on the forum for several years because after losing 100 pounds he didn't feel comfortable going the rest of the way to a normal weight. A bunch of forum bullies apparently hurled the kind of insults at him you are defending here. There seems like there's some forum members who are open minded and figure it's everyones choice to take as much or little of the program as they see fit. Others are evangelical at best and bullies at worst and seem to view the program as a religion that needs to be strictly adhered to and defended, and the heretics need to be attacked. Just my 2 cents as a newbie, make of it what you will. Grok on.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Bob-Tao View Post
          SJMC,
          You are a senior member with over a thousand posts. You say people are just defending eating this way and telling the truth.
          ...to quote Nekron... "Pathetic Troll"..."no one here cares what you eat"..."Your retarded brain" .... "I don't debate monkeys".... if you don't see this as obsessive or cultish then maybe you don't know what a cult is. It's a place where no one is allowed to question the doctrine, or to discuss other ways of interpreting it, and anyone who does is ridiculed and driven out because they are seen as a threat to a single world view. I read an interesting FAQ on cholesterol by a former member of this forum named Griff, who quit after being on the forum for several years because after losing 100 pounds he didn't feel comfortable going the rest of the way to a normal weight. A bunch of forum bullies apparently hurled the kind of insults at him you are defending here. There seems like there's some forum members who are open minded and figure it's everyones choice to take as much or little of the program as they see fit. Others are evangelical at best and bullies at worst and seem to view the program as a religion that needs to be strictly adhered to and defended, and the heretics need to be attacked. Just my 2 cents as a newbie, make of it what you will. Grok on.
          Most of us have to defend going grain free IRL. It would be nice if we didn't have to defend it here. I joined this board because I saw real support for a way I am forced to eat~ it isn't a 'choice' for me. One Jim Hensen is enough!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Nady View Post
            Most of us have to defend going grain free IRL. It would be nice if we didn't have to defend it here. I joined this board because I saw real support for a way I am forced to eat~ it isn't a 'choice' for me. One Jim Hensen is enough!
            I guess being 66 and retired for 5 years I got used to not answering to anyone except my wife, and she probably figures I'm a bit weird anyway.
            On a positive note, I can't believe giving up bread and cookies and rice and pasta could make such a difference in my energy level in just a few days. I woke up three hours early this morning and took a fast 1 mile walk before breakfast and wasn't even winded. Yesterday I used a rake to level out six sand piles left over from a concrete job my son did for me a few weeks ago. I feel wired and raring to go all day long. Is this normal when people start the program or will it level out as my body gets used to the new food? Thanks.

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            • #51
              Thanks. We lived most of our lives on a small city lot so when we retired we bought a small ranch style house on a large lot. It has kept me in shape just tending the lawn and garden. I've never been in a gym or hired a gardner.

              Originally posted by annedawso View Post
              Welcome, haven't read all the thread but you find all types of opinions on here and most people are very tolerant.
              There is no single answer for any of us. Some eat more carbs than others, some eat more fruit. I find it a really good forum to get ideas. Mark whose forum it is seems a really laid back guy, who is tolerant to everyone's opinion.
              I like your exercise routine, I like it when exercise actually has a purpose ie clearing leaves.
              There is loads of good info on here. Some people are evangelical but hey ho i take it with a pinch of salt.
              Good luck.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Bob-Tao View Post
                I guess being 66 and retired for 5 years I got used to not answering to anyone except my wife, and she probably figures I'm a bit weird anyway.
                On a positive note, I can't believe giving up bread and cookies and rice and pasta could make such a difference in my energy level in just a few days. I woke up three hours early this morning and took a fast 1 mile walk before breakfast and wasn't even winded. Yesterday I used a rake to level out six sand piles left over from a concrete job my son did for me a few weeks ago. I feel wired and raring to go all day long. Is this normal when people start the program or will it level out as my body gets used to the new food? Thanks.
                Hi Bob,
                I have found since I went Primal that it is as if a fog has been lifted from my brain and I have loads more energy.
                Pre Primal I would have a carbohydrate induced sleep early evening, and feel sluggish all night.
                Now I actively look for things to do. Walking, cleaning the car, though must admit gardening bores me.

                I prefer not to eat grains at all and get all of my calories from eggs, meat, fish, loads of vegetables and oil. Though this is cos as a 46 year old woman I lose weight eating this way.
                You will find that most people eat fruit, nuts etc. you have to find your own balance that works for you.
                I don't think your energy levels will change, though you just get used to it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Bob-Tao View Post
                  SJMC,
                  You are a senior member with over a thousand posts. You say people are just defending eating this way and telling the truth.
                  ...to quote Nekron... "Pathetic Troll"..."no one here cares what you eat"..."Your retarded brain" .... "I don't debate monkeys".... if you don't see this as obsessive or cultish then maybe you don't know what a cult is. It's a place where no one is allowed to question the doctrine, or to discuss other ways of interpreting it, and anyone who does is ridiculed and driven out because they are seen as a threat to a single world view. I read an interesting FAQ on cholesterol by a former member of this forum named Griff, who quit after being on the forum for several years because after losing 100 pounds he didn't feel comfortable going the rest of the way to a normal weight. A bunch of forum bullies apparently hurled the kind of insults at him you are defending here. There seems like there's some forum members who are open minded and figure it's everyones choice to take as much or little of the program as they see fit. Others are evangelical at best and bullies at worst and seem to view the program as a religion that needs to be strictly adhered to and defended, and the heretics need to be attacked. Just my 2 cents as a newbie, make of it what you will. Grok on.
                  Hey, I almost wanted to say "everybody except him". I thought the name-calling was ridiculous but didn't want to make this devolve any further. For what it's worth, I think the truth people were trying to tell is that what barefoot wants to do isn't merely 'not 100% primal', and he won't get the same effects as really making a go at it. Most people here don't think Primal is The Truth, but for a lot of them it's all that works. All that n=1 stuff you hear, etc. Which is of course no excuse for calling someone 'retarded' (really I cringed when I saw that).

                  Anyway I'll hope you believe me when I say most of the people here are very level-headed, and I hope the behavior of a few doesn't drive you away!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I've found that I"m more tired since going primal, but it's not because of primal, it's because of me.

                    Lemme'splain:

                    Before primal, i often had edema in my fingers, or gas, or bloating, or constipation, or a combination thereof. I was also more hypothyroidial (have been for a long time -- but I used a lot of diet/exercise to get it back closer to normal and so I had to watch that pretty closely as well) and usually cold all of the time.

                    Now, I rarely have any of those physical discomforts or any of the symptoms of hypothyroid.

                    Since these things don't occupy my conscience at all, I have a lot more clarity and creativity -- and I feel really excited and motivated to get out there and do great things! I get so excited about doing my work and creative endeavors that I tend to get ahead of myself and not balance it out with enough sleep or rest (play, etc) -- two really important parts of the primal blueprint!

                    I wouldn't say that your body will slow down or some such, but rather that you might have to figure out how to contain yourself a bit. LOL

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                    • #55
                      Just curious,
                      I haven't read "Primal Blueprint" so don't know exactly what the strict definition of the Primal diet is, except what I've read here, forum & daily apple and also on other Paleo sites.
                      As a strict Paleo definition my understanding is the general rule is if you can eat it raw it is Paleo and if not it's not Paleo.
                      Mark has already bent those rules to include a variety of foods that are considered healthier from the non Paleo grouping, this may be for a health benefit or to appeal to a wider audience, I don't know.
                      Then allowed the 80:20 rule to allow for some indiscretions and make dietary complience even easier again and many here have bent that even further again.
                      So one has to imagine at what point does the diet cease to be primal and more closely resembles another diet type.
                      The range already goes from carnivores to vegetarians and once you throw in grains, legumes, dairy etc. as daily fodder, it certainly isn't Paleo and unlikely to fit the "Primal Blueprint either".
                      So it is understandable for people to respond in the way they do, maybe they could be a bit more civil about it.
                      Where do the allowances stop before Primal means nothing at all?
                      "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I think that the concern in that post is the idea that we are not able to differentiate, which is a form of "slippery slope" fallacy.

                        End of the day, if you are eating grains, legumes, etc "daily" -- then it's obviously not PB. But if you are eating it sparingly -- even if you were to be very literal with 80/20 and say that 20% of your annual meals including "off the list" elements (such as grains and beans) -- we're talking about 3 meals a day 365 per year and thereby really looking at 219 meals per year.

                        So, I suppose you could say that when you get to 220 meals, you're no longer PB, right? LOL

                        Point being, i think it's very easy for a person to differentiate. If the OP, for example, has Pizza/Beer 1x week then he's not even hitting 20%. He's looking at 52 meals out of 1095 or .4% non-compliance.

                        But, I think it's mostly about feeling. I often feel like i'm hitting my 20%, but there is no way that I'm hitting 20% in actuality. For me, it's a way of going "right, feeling emotional, eating cookies, acknowledging emotional eating" as opposed to going "oh noes, i'm not primal!" KWIM?

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                        • #57
                          52 meals out of 1095 or .4% non-compliance
                          52 out of 1095 is 4.8%

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mike_h View Post
                            52 out of 1095 is 4.8%
                            So looking at this, hypothetically of course,
                            Pizza every Friday = 4.8%
                            Oatmeal breakfast every Monday = 4.8%
                            Bagel lunch twice weekly = 9.6%
                            Throw the 3-4 beers on top = 1%
                            That gives you an average, maybe quite healthy, but not Primal individual.
                            "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                            • #59
                              I think most of us use Marks definition (well I do anyway.)
                              Let's face it to be truly primal wouldn't we be eating raw meat and sleeping in caves with no hairdryers and tv etc!!!
                              I like to think I am Primal in a modern world. i take the bits of the modern world I like and leave the rest.

                              Was watching an interesting documentary yesterday about the Amish community. No sign of an obesity epidemic amongst them.

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                              • #60
                                Thanks for answering. Glad to see that common sense abounds. Happy to get answers from a bunch of helpful friendly people as well.

                                Bob

                                Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                                Hey, I almost wanted to say "everybody except him". I thought the name-calling was ridiculous but didn't want to make this devolve any further. For what it's worth, I think the truth people were trying to tell is that what barefoot wants to do isn't merely 'not 100% primal', and he won't get the same effects as really making a go at it. Most people here don't think Primal is The Truth, but for a lot of them it's all that works. All that n=1 stuff you hear, etc. Which is of course no excuse for calling someone 'retarded' (really I cringed when I saw that).

                                Anyway I'll hope you believe me when I say most of the people here are very level-headed, and I hope the behavior of a few doesn't drive you away!

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