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Cholesterol - Why do Traditional HG's have better results than us on Primal

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  • Cholesterol - Why do Traditional HG's have better results than us on Primal

    I've never tested my Cholesterol, maybe one day, but I am looking into it for my partner and her mother whom both have had higher levels in the past.
    I've looked at a variety of diet types and decided for a variety of reasons that Primal/Paleo is the best direction for overall health.
    I am intrigued by the Cholesterol discussions, this is one of the critical health markers that are quoted in studies in support of the Paleo diet and Traditional Hunter Gatherer groups pass with flying colours, even on their LDL numbers.
    Yet when we try to emulate their diet & behaviours there seems to be an overwhelming tendancy to high LDL, this is explained away as ok because it is type A, big and fluffy, and not causal in CHD as the oxidised small remnants are the ones that cause plaque. That's well and fine, but I am gathering information so that when I speak to their doctors I can educate them with supporting scientific data.
    So why do we have higher LDL than traditional HG's?

    Is it because:
    *Systemic inflamation from years of SAD foods & lifestyle.
    *High Omega 6 PUFA intake, prone to oxidation, which takes years to clear from our bodies.
    *High calorific intakes continuously during day, not allowing repair time for body always preoccupied with digestion.
    *Stress of modern life
    *Any other ideas?

    I know LDL is primarily sent out for body repair, so a high level seems to be indicative of damage somewhere in need of repair, where is it, what is it and how long before we get to the true HG cholesterol range?

    Anyone out there who actually has good Cholesterol levels according to the standard measures?
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

  • #2
    Where are you getting your data for traditional HG? Since without knowing what group we are comparing against, it is really hard to make valid comparisons.

    That being said, another few potential reasons are the amount of access we have to food now and the limited nutritional density in a lot of the conventional available food (due to treating them like commodities).

    As far as good levels, I'm well under the 220 mg/dl. I would have to pull my numbers, but I think my last test had something like 110 total, 50 HG, 25 Trig.
    turquoisepassion - I MUST KNOW ALL THE THINGS

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    • #3
      Probably because their eating is much more periodic and less predictable. They are mostly likely not 3 squares meals a day most of the time. More activity as well.

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      • #4
        Actually, it's the parasites. http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/07...rs-conclusion/
        Last edited by Knifegill; 08-09-2012, 07:18 PM.
        Crohn's, doing SCD

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        • #5
          Read Dr. Attia's lesson here:

          The straight dope on cholesterol

          Very scientific but understandable. I've read it several times, it's well worth the time to read it.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Grafter View Post
            Where are you getting your data for traditional HG? Since without knowing what group we are comparing against, it is really hard to make valid comparisons.

            That being said, another few potential reasons are the amount of access we have to food now and the limited nutritional density in a lot of the conventional available food (due to treating them like commodities).

            As far as good levels, I'm well under the 220 mg/dl. I would have to pull my numbers, but I think my last test had something like 110 total, 50 HG, 25 Trig.
            I think it was Kitava that were recently quoted on another thread, but I have seen this mentioned with other HG groups like San Bushmen & Tokalu islanders, in some of Cordains work and others.
            Your results seem to be great, I was thinking more of all those individuals that come back with Totals over 250, often over 300.

            I will go and see if I can get some specific data for the Traditional HG's Cholesterol levels.
            "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
              Linked from your link:
              Serum Cholesterol Among the Eskimos and Inuit | Perfect Health Diet
              TC is mostly between 200 and 240 mg/dl, LDL between 100 and 160, and HDL between 50 and 70. Cholesterol increased as fish oil intake increased – evidence that cholesterol gets higher as the diet becomes more traditional.
              So I suppose this may be a good figure as a starting benchmark.
              Interesting the disease conditions related to the low figure HG populations.
              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                Probably because their eating is much more periodic and less predictable. They are mostly likely not 3 squares meals a day most of the time. More activity as well.
                That's one of the things I was thinking, from the fasting threads it indicated that HDL is improved by intermitant fasting.
                "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goldie View Post
                  Read Dr. Attia's lesson here:

                  The straight dope on cholesterol

                  Very scientific but understandable. I've read it several times, it's well worth the time to read it.
                  I'll go back and have a look at it, I have read various explanations, but I suppose what I'm after is some definative answer (maybe not possible) on what should be the best ranges for both Men & Women, most of what I have seen talks more about what is good & bad but doesn't specify numbers too much.
                  Maybe I need to just knuckle down and do a bunch of reading to get my head around it fully.
                  It'd be nice to just get the targets required and actions needed to reach those targets.
                  "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                  • #10
                    I haven't looked too deeply into all the stuff about cholesterol... mainly because my own results have been fantastic so I don't care on a personal level! So here's my n=1.... we're all unique of course but my improvements couldn't be much better!

                    Before primal
                    Total: 215
                    Trigs: 135
                    HDL: 35
                    LDL: 155

                    Total/HDL: 6.1 (Supposed to be 4.4 or lower for women)
                    Trig/HDL: 3.9 (Supposed to be below 2)
                    LDL/HDL: 4.4 (Supposed to be below 4.3)


                    After 3 months of eating primal and losing ~38 lb
                    Total: 200
                    Trigs: 80
                    HDL: 50
                    LDL: 140

                    Total/HDL: 4.0 (Supposed to be 4.4 or lower for women)
                    Trig/HDL: 1.6 (Supposed to be below 2)
                    LDL/HDL: 2.8 (Supposed to be below 4.3)


                    So, I improved in every single area! Trigs went down, HDL came up, and all my ratios are now acceptable.
                    Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

                    Current PRs:
                    Bench: 45kg/99lb
                    Squat: 100kg/220lb
                    Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

                    My blog
                    My journal

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nixxy View Post
                      After 3 months of eating primal and losing ~38 lb
                      Total: 200
                      Trigs: 80
                      HDL: 50
                      LDL: 140

                      Total/HDL: 4.0 (Supposed to be 4.4 or lower for women)
                      Trig/HDL: 1.6 (Supposed to be below 2)
                      LDL/HDL: 2.8 (Supposed to be below 4.3)


                      So, I improved in every single area! Trigs went down, HDL came up, and all my ratios are now acceptable.
                      Congratulations, great numbers in every way, maybe I should have asked for posts on good numbers, just seemed there was overwhelming tendancy to the high LDL & high Total with most here.

                      Can I ask, if not too personal, do you have any other health issues, just wonder if that is a factor in those recovering from autoimmune, eating disorders, IBS etc?
                      "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Omni View Post
                        Congratulations, great numbers in every way, maybe I should have asked for posts on good numbers, just seemed there was overwhelming tendancy to the high LDL & high Total with most here.

                        Can I ask, if not too personal, do you have any other health issues, just wonder if that is a factor in those recovering from autoimmune, eating disorders, IBS etc?
                        Haha yeah well my LDL went down and my total did too so I'm pleased as punch. I don't know how much credence I give to cholesterol in predicting heart stuff but I suppose it's like a back-up thing.. if it IS a big factor, I want mine to be good.

                        No other health issues really. Nothing autoimmune, no eating disorder (although to reach 280lb... you have to wonder hahaha. But it was obviously consistently bad eating), no IBS.

                        My doctor suspects I have PCOS but that's a recent development (although I've probably had it for a long time, she's only mentioned it now). I fit almost all the symptoms of excess androgens (no beard though, sorry), and that is all tied up in insulin resistance as well, which I likely created through gaining so much weight.
                        Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

                        Current PRs:
                        Bench: 45kg/99lb
                        Squat: 100kg/220lb
                        Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

                        My blog
                        My journal

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for that, so no chronic issues outside of the excess weight, I just have a suspicion the high LDL may often be related to inflamation from a pre existing condition.
                          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                            ^This. This is why HGs have such low cholesterol.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                            • #15
                              Probably because their getting is much more occasional and less expected. They are mostly likely not 3 products foods a day most of the time

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