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  • #31
    There is a medium between eating half an apple and binging on pounds of fruit. 2 or 3 pieces a day is not unhealthy.

    It's really OK to enjoy food.
    That's exactly what i am trying to say. But there are people who find it difficult to walk that middle line, and avoidance may be less painful and psychologically hard than complete restriction. Out of sight, out of mind. It's also easier to avoid damaging food (and I emphasize, damaging to YOU, personally, the rest of the world can be great with it!) if you demonize it or make it unappealing.

    And I imagine if you deny yourself sweet (fruit) that over time.... you may have an overreaction.
    Not necessary. Not having to not wanting does happen.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-03-2012, 08:06 AM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #32
      I actually find the opposite on these boards. I think alot of people are actually still very afraid of fat and dont eat nearly enough/too much protein. The average joe needs NO more then .6g per lb BW and someone heavy lifting can still get away fine with .8-1.2ish.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jakey View Post
        one time, i made a pound of ground beef cooked in coconut oil, and then enjoyed it with some slices of butter on top. but it was grass fed butter and coconut oil, so i knew i was extra healthy that day. i would've added some onions or garlic, but the insulin response could've made me gain a lot of fat.
        LMAO LOLOLOL....that was a good one!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by nixxy View Post
          i agree about the extremism thing! It's like everyone is afraid to be middle-of-the-road about things... heaven forbid we are average! As soon as some advice comes out people just let it dominate their lifestyle instead of taking it for what it is - usually a statement without context. E.g. (made-up) berries are good... people eat a zillion berries a day, instead of just choosing berries when they feel like fruit.

          I think it's the same with the carb thing. People found they felt good with lower carbs.. also probably in part due to less sugar (rather than the lack of carbs in general)... suddenly everyone rushes to a very low carb diet!

          I think the old saying about moderation is true in every facet of life. You hear these things, evaluate the truth/relativity for yourself, then let that affect your decisions, rather than dominate them.

          Also being a sedentary female with weight loss as the number 1 goal... you really cannot afford to go all out on the fats or it's near impossible to get your other daily nutrient needs. Sometimes I want bacon and eggs but when I do that it's really hard to get enough protein in for the rest of the day because that 1 meal alone is half my daily calorie intake! So definitely have to keep that in mind when going crazy on the fats.
          Nods head in agreement

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ArrGee View Post
            I think it's an (over)reaction to years of being denied delicious fat. A rebellion, even.

            As a kid, I was told not to eat the fatty part off a steak because it was "bad for you", even though it was more delicious than the steak itself. The same thing went with other delicious, but "bad for you" (CW), fatty foods, like bacon.

            "You mean all that delicious fat is isn't bad for you after all?! Then, why am I eating this shit?!

            *tosses out bowl of oatmeal*

            "Hand me those bacon and eggs!!! Up yours, Food Pyramid!!!"
            Bwahaha! I'm envisioning a massive, simultaneous oatmeal purge out of every kitchen window of every home on a worldwide scale...
            “Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi

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            • #36
              Why toss it away if you could make a decent facial mask of it?
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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              • #37
                anyone who's followed CW's low-fat prescription for health & comes to primal SHOULD swoon over fats; their bodies are probably starved for what it has to offer: vitamins A&D&K&E, omega 3s, cell-wall building blocks, pure deliciousness.

                Those happy posters having mouthgasms from butter? That's pure physical delight at getting the Good Shit, instead of a banana daquiri cream pie no fat yoplait whip chemical mess.

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                • #38
                  No. I still don't like fat. About the only full fat product I like is cheese & nuts, but butter, cream, coconut oil, olive oil, bacon, pork drippings... eww. The smell makes me gag, and it leaves unpleasant feeling in my mouth, and what's more makes me ravenous. I am trying to fat fast again today, and after 7 hours of almost pure fat intake, i am ready to kill for an honest slab of a boiled cod.

                  I do like salmon, and the fat that is integral to the meat, but separable fat, I don't like too much of it on its own. I like roasting my meats without added fat.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • #39
                    I think it's an (over)reaction to years of being denied delicious fat. A rebellion, even.

                    As a kid, I was told not to eat the fatty part off a steak because it was "bad for you", even though it was more delicious than the steak itself. The same thing went with other delicious, but "bad for you" (CW), fatty foods, like bacon.

                    "You mean all that delicious fat is isn't bad for you after all?! Then, why am I eating this shit?!

                    *tosses out bowl of oatmeal*

                    "Hand me those bacon and eggs!!! Up yours, Food Pyramid!!!"
                    True for me! VERY true for me. A few years ago I thought soymilk and granola were optimal staple foods. Blech!

                    You know what makes you actually full? 2 pounds of top sirloin.
                    Also true! Another vote for protein, here! One pound a day, I've discovered, is baseline maintenance for me. But it would be cooked in tallow and then I'd drink it after cooking my veggies in it. Maybe I would eat less fat if I ate the full two pounds of meat, but then where's my vitamin K2?

                    + 100!!!!!! Finally!!!! I was beginning to think I was all alone on that one!

                    When I first tried primal (I need to lose weight) by eating a diet of 60%-70% fat, it gave me explosive diarrhea (sorry TMI, i know!) to the point where I couldn't hold anything in for very long, so I suppose it could work on the basis of food straight in, food straight out.....lol! Personally I'd just prefer to go higher protein, moderate fats and lower-moderate carbs for the comfortability factor :-P
                    Sounds like you dove in too fast. I had to start slowly, because I also got the runs at first! It took about six weeks of gradually increasing my fat intake to be able to eat bacon and eggs without discomfort. Nowadays I can eat a dozen eggs or a pound of bacon without a problem.

                    butter is not a food group.

                    when people are having 400-500 cals of bullet-proof coffee for "breakfast", what happens the rest of the day? is everything else super-nutrient dense all day to make up for the fat-bomb in the beginning? just like liver, eggs, wild salmon and kale?
                    You sort of answered your own question. When eating high-fat, a person should also eat the most nutrient-dense foods they can find. And there is also an over-lap of nutrient-dense and high-fat foods, like eggs and avocados. Add liver and greens, and even a little fruit and especially nuts (gasp, I said it!) and it's hard to become malnourished. I mean, good luck missing out on a micronutrient. I do this, often getting 70% (80% on coconut milk days!) of my calories from fat. My nutrition calculator numbers are usually great, only occasionally low on thiamin.

                    I do wear the high-fat badge, but I wear it with a level head and am willing to take on new info as it comes.
                    Crohn's, doing SCD

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ArrGee View Post
                      I think it's an (over)reaction to years of being denied delicious fat. A rebellion, even.

                      As a kid, I was told not to eat the fatty part off a steak because it was "bad for you", even though it was more delicious than the steak itself. The same thing went with other delicious, but "bad for you" (CW), fatty foods, like bacon.

                      "You mean all that delicious fat is isn't bad for you after all?! Then, why am I eating this shit?!

                      *tosses out bowl of oatmeal*

                      "Hand me those bacon and eggs!!! Up yours, Food Pyramid!!!"
                      I feel this is the case with me. I try not to "eat like an inuit" but fat is what makes things delicious. I haven't had bacon in years because I thought the fat was going to kill me. Now I almost always have sugar-free bacon in the fridge!

                      My husband, strangely, thinks eating the fatty bits on meat is gross. Can't seem to wrap my head around that!

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                      • #41
                        I have to get my calories from somewhere (I do a lot of athletic shit) and I am not about to eat 800g of protein a day to do that. I don't recommend bacon either, just supplement with grassfed butter and coconut oil.
                        People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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                        • #42
                          I feel bad if I eat too much protein. I mean, there's a limit to it. There doesn't seem to be a limit to fat really, other than natural appetite limits. Not that I shovel in tons of it or anything, but eating more than you need simply results in fat storage, while eating more protein than you need appears to result in a truly awful feeling of illness for me.

                          Adding a little more fat to my food results for me in helpful satiety, at least if I find that I'm having a hard time attaining it.

                          A friend of mine is on a different program than Primal. He was instructed to cut flour and sugar from his diet and that all meals must include a quarter cup of olive oil or the equivalent of some other fat. I guess that is supposed to help regulate the appetite in food-addicted and the other eating disordered people in that program. He says it really helped him immensely. Remembering what he told me, I've been experimenting the last couple of days with adding more fat to my food since I've been feeling an outsized appetite. It has helped calm my hunger a lot.

                          I think some of us maybe just need more fat than others. There are a lot of fat bashers on this site, the pro-fruit/pro-potato brigade being the major ones.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #43
                            Oh, yuck. I feel SO hungry and nervous when I eat too much fruit or sweet potato. Some, yes. Once in a while I'll gorge on a fatty mountain of sweet potatoes, sure. But if I eat them regularly, I start to need them regularly and then I start putting on body fat.

                            I think this brings us back around to ancestry. My predecessors, on the whole, lived in either plains or forests (native American, European) and subsisted (from what little I know) on large game animals and plants. When I eat those, or approximate them on the whole, I feel best.

                            If my ancestors came from the tropics, I'd probably feel better eating copious amounts of fruit and tubers.
                            Last edited by Knifegill; 08-03-2012, 11:04 AM.
                            Crohn's, doing SCD

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                              I feel bad if I eat too much protein. I mean, there's a limit to it. There doesn't seem to be a limit to fat really, other than natural appetite limits. Not that I shovel in tons of it or anything, but eating more than you need simply results in fat storage, while eating more protein than you need appears to result in a truly awful feeling of illness for me.

                              Adding a little more fat to my food results for me in helpful satiety, at least if I find that I'm having a hard time attaining it.

                              A friend of mine is on a different program than Primal. He was instructed to cut flour and sugar from his diet and that all meals must include a quarter cup of olive oil or the equivalent of some other fat. I guess that is supposed to help regulate the appetite in food-addicted and the other eating disordered people in that program. He says it really helped him immensely. Remembering what he told me, I've been experimenting the last couple of days with adding more fat to my food since I've been feeling an outsized appetite. It has helped calm my hunger a lot.

                              I think some of us maybe just need more fat than others. There are a lot of fat bashers on this site, the pro-fruit/pro-potato brigade being the major ones.
                              I agree with this - I eat quite a bit of fat . . . and fruit for that matter. I have at least 2-3 servings of fruit/day. Just finished a cup of grapes rolled in melted coconut oil and then refrigerated. But I seem to need extra fat to curb hunger. So I'm one of those people cooking with tallow and butter, and eating coconut oil. But I don't gain weight eating that way, so it works for me.

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                              • #45
                                I have completely stopped worrying about what my macronutrient breakdown is on any given day.

                                I shoot for eating a variety of fruits and vegetables, plenty of animal foods like eggs, yogurt, meat/fish, cheese, etc., and plenty of starchy stuff like white rice and sweet potato and (shock!) sourdough bread and (horror!) pasta because it's yummy and makes me feel good. I put butter on things to make them taste good and I don't even think about how much of what I'm eating, I just eat. And when I'm in the mood I drink a beer or have a bowl of ice cream with frozen fruit (usually after a workout because that's when it tastes the best), and I don't worry about it.

                                Lo and behold, I am no less healthy than when I was obsessively tracking my macronutrients and eating almost nothing but grass-fed meat, liver, eggs, vegetables and sweet potatoes. Probably because I'm much more relaxed and having a lot more fun.

                                Seriously, I'm pretty sure working in a sunless, climate-controlled box for 40+ hours each week is WAY worse for my health than rigatoni parmigiana.

                                EDIT: I do try and cook most of my own food and I don't use seed oils in my cooking, preferring butter and coconut oil. But I don't sweat it when I go to a bar with my friends and order fish and chips or something, even though it's probably fried in rancid canola oil or something nasty.

                                Speaking of fried, I had a couple of delicious beer-battered dogfish shark tacos last night. We tried out this gourmet taco place down the street for my wife's birthday. Yum.
                                Last edited by Uncephalized; 08-03-2012, 11:14 AM.
                                Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                                My Primal Journal

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