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  • Meat and Dairy

    Hi everyone,
    I eat very healthy (way beyond someone that's new to it and thinks a tofu chicken sandwich loaded with chemicals is healthy), did a lot of research into it after my wife passed away from cancer, lost 65lbs and feel great.
    I don't follow any particular lifestyle diet like Primal, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc.
    I learn from all diets, read a lot, ask questions, listen and eat the healthiest I can of everything.
    Lately my concern has been meat and animal products and I have cut back to almost nothing.
    I seen the documentary Forks over Knives and found it very interesting how countries that consume meat and dairy, basically animal products have the highest rate of cancer and heart attacks.
    And most of these studies were done years ago in other countries that didn't ruin their meat and dairy products like we do today in this country.
    It says in the Bible we should adopt a vegan diet (learned it from my body his temple website, leader has very impressive degrees in biology, nutrition, etc), it has been proven that vegetarian's live longer, animal products make our bodies acidic and cause inflammation.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not undercover here pushing towards Veganism.
    I love my organic chicken and eggs, grass fed beef, imported grass fed cheese, but can millions of healthy, educated, intelligent vegans be wrong with evidence to back them?
    I would just like some studies and proof that I can read and research to back my decision that quality animal products are good for us, not just Primal followers saying eat like the cavemen and you'll be healthy.
    Thanks.

  • #2
    Have you tried using the search function on the forum. This has been asked before.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by joegambler0 View Post
      It says in the Bible we should adopt a vegan diet (learned it from my body his temple website, leader has very impressive degrees in biology, nutrition, etc), it has been proven that vegetarian's live longer, animal products make our bodies acidic and cause inflammation.
      You think there's a biblical mandate for veganism? Acts 10:10-15 begs to differ.

      Originally posted by joegambler0 View Post
      I love my organic chicken and eggs, grass fed beef, imported grass fed cheese, but can millions of healthy, educated, intelligent vegans be wrong with evidence to back them?
      Uh, of course.

      Originally posted by joegambler0 View Post
      I would just like some studies and proof that I can read and research to back my decision that quality animal products are good for us, not just Primal followers saying eat like the cavemen and you'll be healthy.
      Thanks.
      Here's some evidence that we are omnivores, from a vegetarian website.
      Last edited by magicmerl; 07-31-2012, 09:32 PM.
      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

      Griff's cholesterol primer
      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
      bloodorchid is always right

      Comment


      • #4
        “Forks Over Knives”: Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique) « Raw Food SOS
        “There is immeasurably more left inside than what comes out in words…”
        — Fyodor Dostoevsky

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        • #5
          Denise Minger did a good review of this http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/for...-and-critique/
          “There is immeasurably more left inside than what comes out in words…”
          — Fyodor Dostoevsky

          Comment


          • #6
            Denise Minger wrote a good review of this “Forks Over Knives”: Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique) « Raw Food SOS
            “There is immeasurably more left inside than what comes out in words…”
            — Fyodor Dostoevsky

            Comment


            • #7
              Forks over Knives was pure vegan claptrap, heavily biased and based on incorrect science - a vegan trait.
              “Forks Over Knives”: Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique) « Raw Food SOS

              Comment


              • #8
                This reply is for majicmerl,
                In that article you told me to read it says:
                All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. WE ARE NOT however, REQUIRED TO CONSUME ANIMAL PROTEIN. We have a choice.
                It also says:
                Conclusion
                Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and HEALTH CONCERNS.
                Not making a very good case for yourself.
                You also don't address the fact that meat makes the body acidic and causes inflammation.
                Would be really nice to see some holistic nutritional scientist doing double blind studies on organic meat eating to prove it's healthy, like they have done with fruits and vegetables.
                Not leaning towards vegetarianism, I'm just a stickler for getting to the truth of things and I can't understand why no one can't provide prove that eating the right kind of meat is good for us.
                Just because we are capable of eating meat doesn't prove it's a healthy choice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bowel cancer
                  A pan-European study of nutrition and cancer found that people who ate more than two 80g portions of red meat a week were 30 per cent more likely to develop bowel cancer than those who ate less than one portion.
                  Scientists are still unsure why there is an increased risk, but there is a theory that the compounds haemoglobin and myoglobin, found in red meat, trigger a process called nitrosation in the gut which in turn leads to the formation of cancer-causing compounds.
                  Processed meats such as sausages may also be risky because the cooking process can create carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines.

                  Alzheimer's disease
                  Research has shown that a Mediterranean diet - low in red meat but rich in plant foods and fish - can reduce the chances of developing Alzheimer's by up to two-thirds.
                  Again, there is no firm theory on this. Researchers University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) suggested last month that red meat could be linked to a build-up of iron in the brain, causing the opposite effect of antioxidants; in effect, the brain rusts. The researchers suggest it may also explain why more men develop Alzheimer's, as men eat more red meat than women.

                  Bones
                  Too much red meat can have an adverse effect on bone health. The digestive process of protein leaves acid residues in the body that need to be neutralised with alkalising minerals - and these may be taken from the bones, leading to a higher risk of osteoporosis and other conditions. While green, leafy vegetables are high in calcium, red meat has a low level and can cause excess acid to form, creating bone problems for the future.

                  Arthritis
                  Eating red meat every day could double your risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis. Scientists believe that collagen, found in red meat, may trigger an immune system response, which may also affect the joints.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not surprised, since as I said that was a vegetarian website.

                    Since the author of it is a vegetarian, he would by definition have to believe that we are not required to consume animal proteins. I agree that it's possible for people to be vegans while taking various supplements to supply the various elements that they would otherwise get from meat.

                    However, eating red meat is often confounded by other variables, such as a sedentary lifestyle and smoking. Here's Denise Mingers post about it (seriously, all her stuff is gold). Here's her critique of Forks over Knives.

                    the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and HEALTH CONCERNS
                    What health concerns? Other than the cholesterol myth that eating red meat causes heart disease. That's the primary 'benefit' of abstaining from meat. Lowered cholesterol.

                    Not making a very good case for yourself.
                    You're perfectly free to abstain from meat and dairy. It's your life after all.
                    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                    Griff's cholesterol primer
                    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                    bloodorchid is always right

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What it comes down to is that there is a copious amount of research being done that states grains in this day and age are absolutley terrible for your body. Not only are they toxic but, they have no GOOD qualities. They are empty calories. it's like if all you ever ate was water....with poison in it. If you really want to look into grains, read or google the book "wheat belly". It will explain everything.

                      Even then, there are so many studies done for and against both sides. Its hard to decide who is right. There are always flaws. For example, your study about people with high fat diets having heart attacks. It says high fat diet, it doesnt say high fat low carb diet. You can't do both. It also doesnt say what kind of fat.

                      You just have to do some critical thinking and come to your own conclusion. For me it was simple. Humans are meant to eat meat and vegtables and fruit. MAYBE they were able to eat grains, but todays grains are NOT yesturdays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                        Here's Denise Mingers post about it (seriously, all her stuff is gold). Here's her critique of Forks over Knives.
                        Denise Minger is NOT a scientist, NOT a statistician (but she likes numbers, she says) and not a nutritionist. She is an English major who likes to write. Strange that people here always point others to her site when asked for a scientific proof.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why nonsense can be absolute?

                          Originally posted by joegambler0 View Post
                          Hi everyone,

                          It says in the Bible we should adopt a vegan diet (learned it from my body his temple website, leader has very impressive degrees in biology, nutrition, etc), it has been proven that vegetarian's live longer, animal products make our bodies acidic and cause inflammation.
                          Don't get me wrong, I'm not undercover here pushing towards Veganism.
                          What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? (response to the Bible nonsense.
                          What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????
                          (response to this temple, biology etc. nonsense)
                          What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? (response to this "I'm not ... pushing toward Veganism" nonsense.
                          OK, after so much suffering I deserve some coffee and chocolate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KathyH View Post
                            Denise Minger is NOT a scientist, NOT a statistician (but she likes numbers, she says) and not a nutritionist. She is an English major who likes to write. Strange that people here always point others to her site when asked for a scientific proof.
                            Nothing strange about it. She has a brilliant analytical mind, sufficient knowledge of biology and nutrition and incredible (for her age at least) ability to focus which allows her to look and find scientific proofs and present in a charming way.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by joegambler0 View Post
                              Bowel cancer
                              A pan-European study of nutrition and cancer found that people who ate more than two 80g portions of red meat a week were 30 per cent more likely to develop bowel cancer than those who ate less than one portion.
                              Scientists are still unsure why there is an increased risk, but there is a theory that the compounds haemoglobin and myoglobin, found in red meat, trigger a process called nitrosation in the gut which in turn leads to the formation of cancer-causing compounds.
                              Processed meats such as sausages may also be risky because the cooking process can create carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines.

                              Alzheimer's disease
                              Research has shown that a Mediterranean diet - low in red meat but rich in plant foods and fish - can reduce the chances of developing Alzheimer's by up to two-thirds.
                              Again, there is no firm theory on this. Researchers University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) suggested last month that red meat could be linked to a build-up of iron in the brain, causing the opposite effect of antioxidants; in effect, the brain rusts. The researchers suggest it may also explain why more men develop Alzheimer's, as men eat more red meat than women.

                              Bones
                              Too much red meat can have an adverse effect on bone health. The digestive process of protein leaves acid residues in the body that need to be neutralised with alkalising minerals - and these may be taken from the bones, leading to a higher risk of osteoporosis and other conditions. While green, leafy vegetables are high in calcium, red meat has a low level and can cause excess acid to form, creating bone problems for the future.

                              Arthritis
                              Eating red meat every day could double your risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis. Scientists believe that collagen, found in red meat, may trigger an immune system response, which may also affect the joints.
                              And what else were these people eating besides meat?
                              Do what you love and do it often. If you don't like something, change it. if you don't like your job, quit. If you don't have enough time, stop watching tv. If you are looking for the love of your life, stop, they will be waiting for you when you start doing the things you love. Stop over analyzing, life is simple. When you eat, appreciate every last bite. Some opportunities only come once, seize them.

                              https://www.facebook.com/ForgedFromFat

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