Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by Grizz View Post

    I am available here to answer legitimate, polite questions and post factual messages. Grizz
    Welcome back Grizz I do have a couple of questions for you!

    I have been on the protocol with supplements for a little bit and I am feeling great even with some weight gain/swelling and acne outbreak, my energy is great and I am sleeping better than ever! How long does the extra weight stick around before it will return to normal?
    I would like to increase my iodine amount into two seperate doses does that mean I need to take double the supplements?

    Thanks

    Comment


    • #92
      I had not participated in the dearly departed Great Iodine Thread and was mostly content to just read this one, but the post about Iodine curing cancer really, really disturbs me. I do not have personal experience surviving cancer. I do, however, transcribe medical reports for oncologists, so I spend 40 hours of my life every week reading and typing reports about cancer patients. I know enough to be dangerous.

      What really disturbs me is the blind statement "iodine cures breast cancer." This statement has supporting pictures linked from Wiki Commons which is an editible site by anyone who logs in. There is no data set to reference the pictures. I clicked on the link to Jeffrey Dach's page and he's just talking about Dr. Brownstein's book. I clicked on the links referenced there and the ones that led me to actual studies are apparently all studies done with mice or rats. There are no trials in humans. There does not seem to be any data set linked here that is with humans. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

      I do not disagree that 21st century humans probably need more iodine in our diet. I go with what is in my pretty decent multivitamin right now and am going to start taking kelp tablets again. I have no opinion one way or the other about doses and how much people should take. If a large dose works for you, glory hallelujah and congratulations. If a smaller dose works for you, keep on keeping on and vaya con Dios.

      For the love of all that is holy, however, please, please, I'm begging you, DO NOT post anything along the lines of "iodine cures cancer." There is no peer-reviewed, independent information that substantiates that. A statement like that is doing a disservice to anyone who is on a search for good health and God forbid someone read something like that who has just gotten a diagnosis of BCA and thinks this is the magical cure and the carboplatin and Taxol her doctor wants her to take is just snake oil.

      Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

      ::Stepping down off soap box, very gently::

      Comment


      • #93
        I'm just gonna say it....Grizz, just start your own thread again, and maybe it will stay alive. But stay off of other's with your preachy views.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by RobinNM View Post
          I had not participated in the dearly departed Great Iodine Thread and was mostly content to just read this one, but the post about Iodine curing cancer really, really disturbs me. I do not have personal experience surviving cancer. I do, however, transcribe medical reports for oncologists, so I spend 40 hours of my life every week reading and typing reports about cancer patients. I know enough to be dangerous.

          What really disturbs me is the blind statement "iodine cures breast cancer." This statement has supporting pictures linked from Wiki Commons which is an editible site by anyone who logs in. There is no data set to reference the pictures. I clicked on the link to Jeffrey Dach's page and he's just talking about Dr. Brownstein's book. I clicked on the links referenced there and the ones that led me to actual studies are apparently all studies done with mice or rats. There are no trials in humans. There does not seem to be any data set linked here that is with humans. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

          I do not disagree that 21st century humans probably need more iodine in our diet. I go with what is in my pretty decent multivitamin right now and am going to start taking kelp tablets again. I have no opinion one way or the other about doses and how much people should take. If a large dose works for you, glory hallelujah and congratulations. If a smaller dose works for you, keep on keeping on and vaya con Dios.

          For the love of all that is holy, however, please, please, I'm begging you, DO NOT post anything along the lines of "iodine cures cancer." There is no peer-reviewed, independent information that substantiates that. A statement like that is doing a disservice to anyone who is on a search for good health and God forbid someone read something like that who has just gotten a diagnosis of BCA and thinks this is the magical cure and the carboplatin and Taxol her doctor wants her to take is just snake oil.
          Could have used your help on the last thread. Thanks.

          I urge anyone even considering falling for snake oil treatments to read this document. It is about the history of "miracle cures" that were nothing more than smoke and mirrors and hype. Please people, think.

          http://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/q/janssen.shtml
          Last edited by Paleobird; 08-04-2012, 03:54 PM.

          Comment


          • #95
            From the above referenced article:

            "In preparing for the trials FDA inspectors investigated some 400 cases of persons who were claimed by Hoxsey to have been cured of cancer by the treatment. This is what they found:

            One group of these victims had diagnosed themselves or had never had a biopsy showing they had cancer.
            A second group had cancer and had been treated for it by accepted and effective methods. but had later gone to the Hoxsey Clinic fearing they had not been cured.
            The remaining cases were people who had received the Hoxsey treatment and had died of cancer (the majority) or still had it. Not one case of a bona fide cure was found.
            This is typical of the pattern when cases allegedly cured by untested cancer remedies are carefully investigated."

            This has been shown over and over again throughout history. A very interesting article. Well worth the read.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Could have used your help on the last thread. Thanks.

              I urge anyone even considering falling for snake oil treatments to read this document. It is about the history of "miracle cures" that were nothing more than smoke and mirrors and hype. Please people, think.

              Cancer Quackery: Past And Present

              I'm going to save that and read it when I finish work this afternoon. I wanted to stay out of the fray on that other thread because my first screen name had been banned for reasons unknown to me and I really wanted to avoid the possibility of being banned again. I did gasp in horror on more than one occasion and some of the things that had been posted and had to scrape my chin up off of the desk a time or two.

              On a side note, Paleobird, I loved reading your transformation article. Very encouraging. I work on lots and lots of reports about women with breast cancer and many of them have good results, but sadly many do not. A mammogram also saved my SIL's life 15 years ago. None of her first-degree relatives had cancer and the evil insurance company almost didn't agree to a mammogram because she was only 35. She ended up having bilateral mastectomies and we are grateful every day that she's still around to keep my brother on the straight and narrow...
              Last edited by RobinNM; 08-04-2012, 04:13 PM. Reason: typos

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by longing2bfit View Post
                Welcome back Grizz I do have a couple of questions for you!

                I have been on the protocol with supplements for a little bit and I am feeling great even with some weight gain/swelling and acne outbreak, my energy is great and I am sleeping better than ever! How long does the extra weight stick around before it will return to normal?
                I would like to increase my iodine amount into two seperate doses does that mean I need to take double the supplements?

                Thanks
                >>> with some weight gain/swelling and acne outbreak<<<<

                Longing,
                IMO, you are taking too much iodine too soon. There should be no weight gain & swelling. This is the schedule that is recommended.
                * Ideas for Starting really slow using a bottle of 2% Lugols iodine (3.1mg per drop) available at Amazon.Com

                - - - Mix 1 drop 2% Lugols into bottles of water, put the caps back on.
                - - - Week 1 drink 1 oz (~30ml) daily (about 380mcg iodone)
                - - - Week 2 drink 2 oz (~60ml) daily (about 775mcg iodine)
                - - - Week 3 drink 4 oz (~120ml) daily ( about 1.5mg iodine)
                - - - Week 4 drink 6 oz (~180ml) daily ( about 2.3mg iodine)
                - - - Week 5 drink 8 oz (~220ml) daily ( about 3.1 mg iodine or about 1 drop per day),
                - - - Week 6 drink 2 drops per day in a glass of water
                - - - Week 7 drink 3 drops per day in a glass of water
                - - - Week 8 drink 4 drops per day (about 12.5mg = to 1 iodoral)
                * Next, Titrate up with iodoral 12.5mg iodine tablets available at Amazon.Com
                - - - add 1/2 tablet each month to eventually reach 50mg daily-refer to Dr. Brownstein’s Book
                - - - 50mg Daily is the dosage target recommended by Dr. Brownstein to overcome toxins
                * If any detox symptoms appear do the salt flush and pulse dose. (all listed below)

                For now reduce your dosage and restart with the week 1 dosage.
                or go on pulse dosing 48 hours between doses. Also consider the salt flush.

                More details here:
                http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

                I'm now off on vacation. See Y'all when I get back.

                Grizz

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by RobinNM View Post
                  I had not participated in the dearly departed Great Iodine Thread and was mostly content to just read this one, but the post about Iodine curing cancer really, really disturbs me. I do not have personal experience surviving cancer. I do, however, transcribe medical reports for oncologists, so I spend 40 hours of my life every week reading and typing reports about cancer patients. I know enough to be dangerous.

                  What really disturbs me is the blind statement "iodine cures breast cancer." This statement has supporting pictures linked from Wiki Commons which is an editible site by anyone who logs in. There is no data set to reference the pictures. I clicked on the link to Jeffrey Dach's page and he's just talking about Dr. Brownstein's book. I clicked on the links referenced there and the ones that led me to actual studies are apparently all studies done with mice or rats. There are no trials in humans. There does not seem to be any data set linked here that is with humans. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

                  I do not disagree that 21st century humans probably need more iodine in our diet. I go with what is in my pretty decent multivitamin right now and am going to start taking kelp tablets again. I have no opinion one way or the other about doses and how much people should take. If a large dose works for you, glory hallelujah and congratulations. If a smaller dose works for you, keep on keeping on and vaya con Dios.

                  For the love of all that is holy, however, please, please, I'm begging you, DO NOT post anything along the lines of "iodine cures cancer." There is no peer-reviewed, independent information that substantiates that. A statement like that is doing a disservice to anyone who is on a search for good health and God forbid someone read something like that who has just gotten a diagnosis of BCA and thinks this is the magical cure and the carboplatin and Taxol her doctor wants her to take is just snake oil.

                  Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

                  ::Stepping down off soap box, very gently::
                  There is a lot of doctor documented articles on Iodine killing cancer cells. The process is called apoptosis.

                  Read all about it here, chapter Cancer.
                  http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

                  Grizz

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by ljbprrfmof View Post
                    Hebsie is a spammer?

                    Seriously, it was post like this one of Hebsie's that inflamed the situation.
                    ...haha, now don't go blaming me for Grizz's nuttery and lunacy. He owns that **** all by himself, thank-you very much...hebs

                    Comment


                    • I thought Grizz said he was done here? More specifically, that "curezone is superior to MDA in every way". Just can't imagine that with the crackpot element he brings here along with the sex stories about 11 year old girls, that MDA wants any association with him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                        There is a lot of doctor documented articles on Iodine killing cancer cells. The process is called apoptosis.

                        Read all about it here, chapter Cancer.
                        http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

                        Grizz
                        Actually, no, that's not correct. According to Merriam Webster Apoptosis is "a genetically determined process of cell self-destruction that is marked by the fragmentation of nuclear DNA, is activated either by the presence of a stimulus or by the removal of a stimulus or suppressing agent, is a normal physiological process eliminating DNA-damaged, superfluous, or unwanted cells (as immune cells targeted against the self in the development of self-tolerance or larval cells in amphibians undergoing metamorphosis), and when halted (as by genetic mutation) may result in uncontrolled cell growth and tumor formation—called also programmed cell death"

                        So while iodine may indeed cause cancer cell death or any cell death, using the word apoptosis in relation to specifically that is not correct. Also, while I appreciate the time and effort you put into your "reference" link, none of those are to actual scientific, peer-reviewed articles. Give me something from the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Clinical Oncology, hell, I'd even take Lancet.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DuhPrincess View Post
                          I'm 51 and have never had a mammogram. I don't have insurance either. Even if I had insurance, I wouldn't allow anyone to radiate my breasts. And even if I did find a lump on my own, I wouldn't allow chemo or radiation. I believe that using iodine for many years now has prevented serious problems from developing in me. I have a number of friends with various serious female issues and none of them ever supplemented with iodine. Too bad you didn't detox bromides a long time ago before you ended up with cancer. I'm not ready to take that risk knowing what I know now.

                          You are now attempting to destroy another thread that could help educate those who are interested in learning how to safely use iodine to detox dangerous bromides. I personally wouldn't want that on my conscience.

                          I dare you to stop using ANY product that profits anybody else. See how long you can make it. You think someone didn't make a ton of money on your surgery or chemo?? Why did you not refuse poisonous chemo for that reason--since you have a problem with doctors making money--or is it just CERTAIN doctors you resent making money off their expertise?

                          Someone has to have a lot of hatred or jealousy in their heart to want to see others suffer needlessly with any or all of those health issues when Iodine is a effective & affordable treatment for many who use it. .

                          Now I will go take my evening dose of Iodoral and ATP Cofactors. You're inspired me just like a Poster Child would for "What Can Happen When You're Iodine Deficient" or "Got Bromides?" I'm more motivated than ever to not end up with cancer cuz I've got a lotta livin' to do! And if I ever had breast cancer in the past, I would be sure to use Iodoral to prevent it from returning if at all possible. But that's just me.
                          I found this post disturbing not only because of its "neener, neener, neener!" attitude about my cancer, but mostly because it is an example of the kind of willful ignorance that is too prevalent. I do not mean to single this individual out, but am addressing this post as representative of a pattern.

                          First of all, she has no insurance. For that I am sorry. I have always agreed that our insurance system sucks. But then she proudly states that she is 51 and has never had a mammogram and would never let them "radiate" her breasts (i.e.have a mammogram) or "allow" chemo or radiation even if she found a lump on her own.

                          So, basically, by the time you would know something was wrong under these circumstances, it would be too late to do anything about it. Then such a person's grieving loved ones could point at the "ineffectiveness" of standard medical care. Believe me, if you are really faced with the choice between death and chemo, you will 'allow" the chemo.

                          But in the meantime, like an ostrich blissfully unaware, she can state as "fact" that there is nothing wrong with her and that it is the iodine she has to thank. She may indeed be perfectly healthy. I hope she is. But how can you infer a causation of iodine=no cancer when you won't even get a check up? Even if you are healthy is is still only correlation not causation.

                          Then there are the conspiracy theories. How freedom of information is being suppressed, yada, yada and that I should feel pangs of "conscience" for keeping people from finding their "miracle cure". What I wouldn't want on my conscience is even one person being some combination of desperate and gullible enough to shun real, proven cancer cures, also known as modern medicine, in favor of snake oil. Then when that doesn't work, it is too late for the real doctors to do any good and that person dies.

                          I don't post here to keep anyone away from the truth. I have experienced the truth about cancer first hand. I have been that desperate sick person trawling the internet in search of a "cure". There is a real live miracle cure but it is at the oncologists office. They cure real live people every single day and have been doing this for decades.

                          Then there is the money stuff. Again. One more time, my HMO lost money on my cancer treatment. I pay the same dues regardless of what treatment I get. By the "money grubbing evil doctors" rational, they should have treated me with herbs and baking soda. They used the surgery and chemo method, even though it cost them a lot of money. Why? Because it actually works.

                          Then I get accused of having a lot of hatred or jealousy in my heart and wanting to see others suffer needlessly. WTH????????
                          I am trying to keep people from suffering needlessly and from being prematurely dead. Anyone reading this can believe that or not as you choose but I know in my non jealousy and hatred filled heart that it is true.

                          (Yes, the above post was disturbing to me on a personal level. That's why I took a while to answer it. It represents a pattern of willful ignorance, lack of even basic scientific reasoning skills, tinfoil hat thinking, with, as bloodorchid put it, a big helping of douchebaggery. I wish we as the MDA community could find a way to grow beyond this.)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RobinNM View Post
                            Actually, no, that's not correct. According to Merriam Webster Apoptosis is "a genetically determined process of cell self-destruction that is marked by the fragmentation of nuclear DNA, is activated either by the presence of a stimulus or by the removal of a stimulus or suppressing agent, is a normal physiological process eliminating DNA-damaged, superfluous, or unwanted cells (as immune cells targeted against the self in the development of self-tolerance or larval cells in amphibians undergoing metamorphosis), and when halted (as by genetic mutation) may result in uncontrolled cell growth and tumor formation—called also programmed cell death"

                            So while iodine may indeed cause cancer cell death or any cell death, using the word apoptosis in relation to specifically that is not correct. Also, while I appreciate the time and effort you put into your "reference" link, none of those are to actual scientific, peer-reviewed articles. Give me something from the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Clinical Oncology, hell, I'd even take Lancet.


                            This^^^^^ is what I mean about basic scientific ignorance. If she hadn't corrected Grizz on this, how many people would have read it and thought they know what apoptosis meant. And thought that reference link proved that iodine cures cancer. Iodine kills some cells in a petri dish, so what? Iodine kills germ cells on your skin, that why it is used as a topical disinfectant. That doesn't make it a cancer cure.

                            Comment


                            • Paleobird, here is some more scientific ignorance.

                              Molecular iodine induces caspase-independent apo... [J Biol Chem. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

                              Molecular iodine induces caspase-independent apoptosis in human breast carcinoma cells involving the mitochondria-mediated pathway.

                              Abstract

                              Molecular iodine (I2) is known to inhibit the induction and promotion of N-methyl-n-nitrosourea-induced mammary carcinogenesis, to regress 7,12-dimethylbenz(a)anthracene-induced breast tumors in rat, and has also been shown to have beneficial effects in fibrocystic human breast disease. Cytotoxicity of iodine on cultured human breast cancer cell lines, namely MCF-7, MDA-MB-231, MDA-MB-453, ZR-75-1, and T-47D, is reported in this communication. Iodine induced apoptosis in all of the cell lines tested, except MDA-MB-231, shown by sub-G1 peak analysis using flow cytometry. Iodine inhibited proliferation of normal human peripheral blood mononuclear cells; however, it did not induce apoptosis in these cells. The iodine-induced apoptotic mechanism was studied in MCF-7 cells. DNA fragmentation analysis confirmed internucleosomal DNA degradation. Terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling established that iodine induced apoptosis in a time- and dose-dependent manner in MCF-7 cells. Iodine-induced apoptosis was independent of caspases. Iodine dissipated mitochondrial membrane potential, exhibited antioxidant activity, and caused depletion in total cellular thiol content. Western blot results showed a decrease in Bcl-2 and up-regulation of Bax. Immunofluorescence studies confirmed the activation and mitochondrial membrane localization of Bax. Ectopic Bcl-2 overexpression did not rescue iodine-induced cell death. Iodine treatment induces the translocation of apoptosis-inducing factor from mitochondria to the nucleus, and treatment of N-acetyl-L-cysteine prior to iodine exposure restored basal thiol content, ROS levels, and completely inhibited nuclear translocation of apoptosis-inducing factor and subsequently cell death, indicating that thiol depletion may play an important role in iodine-induced cell death. These results demonstrate that iodine treatment activates a caspase-independent and mitochondria-mediated apoptotic pathway.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ecksvedge View Post
                                I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... That actually was an interesting study and thank you for finding it and posting it.

                                Let's revisit the whole "scientific ignorance" question, though. You posted a scientific study that had very interesting results on breast cancer cell lines in a laboratory setting. It's a good start and it definitely has some merit. It does NOT, however, state anywhere that orally ingested iodine "Successfully Treats Breast Cancer" as was implied in an earlier post, which I objected to. On that same track, a response to me included this statement: "Read all about it here, chapter Cancer" and included a link to that writer's iodine resource document. After I got through all of the script debugging notifications and actually was able to click on some of the links, it was very apparent that the "resources" were anecdotal and led back to Dr. Brownstein's books and advertisements. I have nothing against Dr. Brownstein. I have never read his work and probably won't. I have nothing against people who want to follow his protocol. If it works for them, more power to them and I wish them well.

                                What I DO have an objection to, however, is wide-ranging statements such as "iodine cures breast cancer" and then absolutely NOTHING with which to back that up. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.

                                Your link was interesting, but again, doesn't support the phrase "iodine cures breast cancer." What it does support is the knowledge that molecular iodine helped to kill some breast cancer line cells in a laboratory setting. That is good knowledge and it's a good start and I hope there are researchers out there in the world building on that.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X