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Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate

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  • Originally posted by winencandy View Post
    I questioned this too.
    Halogens, like elemental metals, have differing levels of reactivity. Higher reactivity elements displace lower reactivity elements. Of the common halogens fluorine is the most reactive. Then comes chlorine, then bromine and finally the least reactive of the halogens, which is iodine:

    gcse Group 7 THE HALOGENS uses of fluorine chlorine bromine iodine physical properties balanced equations chemical reactions balanced equations KS4 science igcse chemistry revision notes

    And I have yet to hear anyone explain how a bromine detox can occur when bromine is readily excreted from the body on its own.

    And with all the fluorine and sodium chloride people are exposed to on a daily basis that both readily displace bromine how come we don't see the so-called bromine detox in virtually everyone? The only people who seem to have this problem are the ones ingesting large amounts of iodine, which is LESS reactive than iodine. And since people are exposed to more fluoride and sodium chloride than bromine any significant amounts of bromine that may have been present would have already been pushed out of the system.

    And finally, only some of the symptoms being reported are symptoms of bromine poisoning. But these symptoms are also symptoms of iodine poisoning as are the other symptoms being reported.

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    • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
      When someone is disagreeing with the topic that is a difference of opinion. When they are making it person by attacking someone repeatedly in an attempt to discredit them that is bashing.
      James, I know you won't accept this as you don't appear to be the sort of person who can take criticism. But you really should go back to page 21 of this thread & start reading from post #207 with a clear head & an open mind. That was when you started replying to Paleobird's posts, & you went through a whole bunch of them with an increasingly sarcastic & patronising attitude. It reads very much like a 'bashing' to me, & as a relative newbie here, I have no reason to defend (or attack) Paleobird.

      I know you think she was rude to you when you first appeared, but seriously, if I woke up in the morning, logged in, & saw a whole raft of patronising messages like the ones you posted in that mammoth session, I would have been a lot ruder. Trying to respond would've been impossible for anyone with a normal amount of spare time. The shear volume of stuff you posted is staggering - I don't think you realise that.

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      • Incidentally you're now doing exactly the same thing with your replies to ChocoTaco in the soy thread. He's going to wake up to several replies from you with comments like:

        And yes, you were confusing vasodilation with inflammation. I tried to explain the difference to you but it clearly went over your head. What you need to learn though is that vasodilation goes on all the time in everyone, inflammation does not. So clearly there is a difference that you just are not getting. And I really don't know how to get you to understand the difference. I tried, but you just don't get it.
        Maybe you just like arguing with yourself. That would also explain why you kept contradicting your own arguments. Hmm..... Maybe you have been consuming mad cows.
        You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
        Patronising & increasingly rude. Not that I have a problem with such things on forums, but if you're going to accuse other people of attacking you & being rude, you really should be aware of it when you're doing exactly the same thing yourself, whether intentionally or not.

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        • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
          James, I know you won't accept this as you don't appear to be the sort of person who can take criticism. But you really should go back to page 21 of this thread & start reading from post #207 with a clear head & an open mind. That was when you started replying to Paleobird's posts, & you went through a whole bunch of them with an increasingly sarcastic & patronising attitude. It reads very much like a 'bashing' to me, & as a relative newbie here, I have no reason to defend (or attack) Paleobird.

          I know you think she was rude to you when you first appeared, but seriously, if I woke up in the morning, logged in, & saw a whole raft of patronising messages like the ones you posted in that mammoth session, I would have been a lot ruder. Trying to respond would've been impossible for anyone with a normal amount of spare time. The shear volume of stuff you posted is staggering - I don't think you realise that.
          I realize it was a lot and I explained why. When I subscribed it took a while to get my account approved, so there was already a long thread and a lot to catch up on. But how much I posted is irrelevant anyway. If I were just posting personal attacks and off topic rants like Paleobird has been doing then it would have been an issue.

          Also, if you go back further you will also see that I was trying to be patient with her crap for a short time. But when someone is so intent on being disruptive as she has been then eventually it becomes time to say something. And from the messages I have received a number of people were really happy that someone finally stood up to her. So I am not the only one tired of her crap. In fact, notice that she came back several times after supposedly signing off of this thread and each time she came back it was not to post on topic.

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          • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
            Incidentally you're now doing exactly the same thing with your replies to ChocoTaco in the soy thread. He's going to wake up to several replies from you with comments like:
            Since you read through the thread then you should have also seen where I clearly stated that I treat people the way they treat me. If they treat me with respect I will do the same. If they want to bash me and be condescending I will reply the same way.

            So this brings up the question why you are singling me out when I have not started with the bashing with anyone?

            And you are over reacting to some of the comments. When I said "First of all you are confusing normal vasodilation with inflammation. So let me start by giving a simple explanation of the process and the difference." I was not being patronising. I was explaining a fact. There is a difference between simple vasodilation and inflammation. I did not say something like "you are a real moron since you don't understand the difference between....". Again I was pointing out a fact. But when his comments escalated such as:

            "You're creating a straw man and ignoring my original argument."

            And this comment that had nothing to do with what was being discussed:

            "LDL and HDL are lipoproteins, not cholesterol. What's your point? You're creating another straw man."

            And let's not overlook this one:

            "I'm not going to comment on the rest because, frankly, it's painful to read and I can't make it through. My forehead is too sore from its time spent slammed against my keyboard."

            Funny how you missed all those!

            Now, can we get back to the actual topic of the thread?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
              I realize it was a lot and I explained why. When I subscribed it took a while to get my account approved, so there was already a long thread and a lot to catch up on. But how much I posted is irrelevant anyway. If I were just posting personal attacks and off topic rants like Paleobird has been doing then it would have been an issue.
              It did read like a personal attack - that's my point.

              Originally posted by JamesS View Post
              Also, if you go back further you will also see that I was trying to be patient with her crap for a short time. But when someone is so intent on being disruptive as she has been then eventually it becomes time to say something.
              If you had posted in this thread prior to that mass session, I can't see it. Had you replied to one or two posts then waited for a response, things may have been different. But you didn't - you just went through replying to loads of posts in an increasingly sarcastic manner, so what the rest of us saw when we logged in was this huge tirade from you. Sure there was a lot of interesting stuff, but it did read like a bit of an attack on Paleobird.

              Originally posted by JamesS View Post
              And from the messages I have received a number of people were really happy that someone finally stood up to her.
              Frankly that's a bit pathetic (them, not you). "Look mummy, the new man stood up to the nasty woman". Nobody's stopped anyone from disagreeing with Paleobird or having a pop at her if they wanted to.

              Anyway, I just wanted to say how it appeared to an unbiased observer. It's up to you if you want to accept any of the blame & drop the 'she attacked me' stick or not.

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              • Unbiased observer - paleobird was rude and obnoxious from the get go. She seems to think she is better than everyone else, god knows why. My experience on this board is MUCH better since I hit ignore. Does she really think we are dying to hear her input on everything? On the other hand, I appreciate JamesS' research and hearing the input from others' on this board without her screaming in on everything.

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                • Originally posted by lambchop View Post
                  Unbiased observer - paleobird was rude and obnoxious from the get go.
                  I don't see it, but there's no point arguing about something that's obviously down to personal interpretation & personality clashes.

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                  • Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                    I don't see it
                    Plenty of other people did. She even continued with the personal attacks over on her journal.

                    Now, once again, can we get back on topic. Constantly focusing on me as the bad guy is getting ridiculous. If you don't like my posting style or what I post then ignore my posts. If you have something to add about iodine then I would love to see it.

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                    • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      Plenty of other people did. She even continued with the personal attacks over on her journal.

                      Now, once again, can we get back on topic. Constantly focusing on me as the bad guy is getting ridiculous. If you don't like my posting style or what I post then ignore my posts. If you have something to add about iodine then I would love to see it.
                      Have to back James on that one, Paleobird did get into a bit of knife throwing there as did others from both camps, that's not to say James didn't, he held his own well, but then couldn't resist a few more digs while he had a captive audience, there was easily one too many.

                      But as they say, onwards and upwards,
                      and for the record James, yes I don't really like your style, but you do have some good info sometimes.
                      "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                      • The receptors looking for iodine but will take bromine instead - does that work the same with the other halogens? We need iodine and chloride but do we need fluoride or bromide? Perhaps because the body uses both iodine/iodide and chloride it can distinguish them apart and use them properly.

                        I also wonder how well we are digesting seaweed. You need to have particular bacteria in the gut to digest it. If you don't have the ability to digest it do you still get the other nutrients and just not the carb digestion?
                        Gut Bacteria Give Super Seaweed-Digestion Power to Japanese | Wired Science | Wired.com

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                        • On another note I'm planning on putting some Lugol's in my chicken's watering can, not megadosing, just enough to keep the water clean and I'm assuming some benefit to the chicken and perhaps the egg eaters as well.

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                          • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                            Halogens, like elemental metals, have differing levels of reactivity. Higher reactivity elements displace lower reactivity elements. Of the common halogens fluorine is the most reactive. Then comes chlorine, then bromine and finally the least reactive of the halogens, which is iodine:

                            And I have yet to hear anyone explain how a bromine detox can occur when bromine is readily excreted from the body on its own.
                            Yes that is the question that I also had. I am not dismissing it entirely however, as I saw a link to a study that measured bromine excretion in the urine. The amount of bromine went up with Iodine supplementation. So the why isn't necessary if the what is documented. I am too lazy to find the study though...

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                            • Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
                              Yes that is the question that I also had. I am not dismissing it entirely however, as I saw a link to a study that measured bromine excretion in the urine. The amount of bromine went up with Iodine supplementation. So the why isn't necessary if the what is documented. I am too lazy to find the study though...
                              This one? Handbook of Pesticide Toxicology by Kreiger. Page 1846 discusses that intracellular bromine is excreted very slowly and lasted about 5 days with no further intake. The kidneys and liver held the highest concentrations, the blood the lowest. My slowly evolving opinion is that because iodine is excreted relatively quickly, it takes a lot of iodine over that 5 days to oust the more persistent bromine. IOW, once it settles in your tissues, bromine is a star boarder and can be evicted only with difficulty.

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                              • Originally posted by lambchop View Post
                                Unbiased observer - paleobird was rude and obnoxious from the get go. She seems to think she is better than everyone else, god knows why. My experience on this board is MUCH better since I hit ignore. Does she really think we are dying to hear her input on everything? On the other hand, I appreciate JamesS' research and hearing the input from others' on this board without her screaming in on everything.
                                Paleo bird is a longtime member of this community. She is a cancer survivor. She is an athlete. She has climbed mountains, and travelled world wide living her life to its fullest, and appreciating her life, which she nearly lost.

                                She's not better than everyone else, but she's better than many. She is knowledgeable, passionate and well spoken.

                                Personally, I think she is an amazing person, a strong person and I admire her very much.

                                What are your qualifications to dismiss a remarkable person, a survivor with great spirit with the desire to help others?
                                Fighting fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain since 2002.

                                Big Fat Fiasco

                                Our bodies crave real food. We remain hungry as long as we refuse to eat real food, no matter how much junk we stuff into our stomachs. ~J. Stanton

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