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Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate

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  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    OK, James. Just to make you happy, here is my opinion about soy. I researched the subject thoroughly post cancer, BTW. What I found is there are studies by the boatload to support either side of the argument. There are poorly done studies on both sides and very well done scientifically sound studies on both sides. (No I'm not going to post links. I did this a few years ago and didn't write it all down. Plus as Grizz shows us, just because you can put up a long list of links, doesn't mean the info is valid.)
    You really have a talent of dancing around things to avoid actually having to back your claims. People do that when they know they are wrong. Just like Grizz has demanded I answer all of his questions but keeps ignoring my questions for him because he also knows he has nothing substantial to back his claims with. In his case though he just ignores me as where in your case we excuses on top of excuses on top of excuses!!!

    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    So what do I as a cancer survivor do with all of this conflicting evidence? I choose to err on the side of caution and cut soy out of my diet. A primal diet does not include legumes anyway and has much better for you and better tasting sources of protein. Bottom line, I'm not a vegan so I don't need soy in my diet, I don't particularly like it to begin with, and there is no consensus about the potential dangers (or benefits) of it.
    It has nothing to do with being a legume. The people who claim soy is bad for cancer use the excuse that the phytoestrogens in cancer promote cancer. If that is the case then how do they explain that we do not see widespread cancer despite EVERY plant humans consume contain phytoestrogens?

    And then there is the fact that phytoestrogens are 200-400 times weaker than human estrogens. And even weaker than the true estrogens found in meats like beef. So what do you eat to error on the side of caution since you apparently don't trust phytoestrogens, which are found in all plants, and the hormones in animal flesh are considerably stronger and thus more dangerous than the phytoestrogens in plants?

    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    You have a habit of putting words into people's mouths and then attacking statements they didn't make.
    Right, just like your claim that you never attacked me, which I also disproved. Clearly you do not want to debate because you know that you will get trounced again in that debate. I don't blame you. If I were as ill informed as you I would not want to debate either. The difference between us is that I don't come up with bogus excuses to try to get around it.

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      You're so cute when you pout.
      I see you still cannot control yourself with the insults. No wonder so many people on these boards hate you.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by longing2bfit View Post
        um~ok thanks :|
        What else do you want to know? The write up gives details on things that can be done to balance the hormones. And I mentioned the motherwort for menopausal hot flashes and adaptogens to support adrenal hormone production. All that covers pretty much every hormonal issue that can come up with menopause.

        I could sit and make a long list of other herbs that can help such as red clover blossom, black cohosh and wild yam. Or foods such as soy, broccoli, seaweeds, etc. But it is a lot of extra typing and also happens to be redundant to the previous information already given. So what else specifically do you want to know?

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        • Grizz, stop with the "been banned on 2 messageboards" nonsense. While I think James is a self important blowhard and has potential to be a lunatic just like you are, his being banned from internet messageboards aren't really a concern. How you have managed to not be banned here shows how invalid of a measurement that is. Stop acting like messageboard bans = criminal record or employment history.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by organicsteve View Post
            so you have contacted the cdc and asked them what damage to expect? what did they say?
            Have you? If I do you would not believe anything I told you anyway. So don't rely on more hearsay like you have been doing all along and get your answers direct from the source.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
              I have a better question, why aren't you and all the others here FIGHTING against James for calling small amounts of iodine POISONOUS?
              For a very good reason. I never claimed small amounts of iodine are poisonous. I said excessive amounts of iodine are poisonous.

              No wonder you could not comprehend the answer to the question I already gave but you keep asking.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
                Grizz, stop with the "been banned on 2 messageboards" nonsense. While I think James is a self important blowhard and has potential to be a lunatic just like you are, his being banned from internet messageboards aren't really a concern. How you have managed to not be banned here shows how invalid of a measurement that is. Stop acting like messageboard bans = criminal record or employment history.
                It is simple to end this controversy - Tell James to answer my very simple question. He has wasted numerous messages already by refusing to answer. As he just admitted, he was also trying to destroy iodine at IndiaDevine

                Grizz

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                • Originally posted by longing2bfit View Post
                  I was being very respectful and non-confrontational in my message to Grizz. I don't appreciate being patronized like I am an idiot thank you. I said that I see Grizz is passionate and wants the best for people. But it is not his or your jobs to decide for us who we can listen to or get advice from. IF something happens in regards to whomever we choose to take advice from I promise I will not personally blame or seek damages from either source. I just think the pettiness of the fighting from BOTH sides is juvenile and takes away from the knowledge that could be passed on. I really don't have a dog in this fight either so I don't know why I even bothered. *sigh* But as a by-stander let me say it is HARD to watch this kind of inter-action and see a lovely site like this succumb to board wars between opposing members. It is very sad thats all
                  +1, too
                  SW: 243
                  CW: 177
                  Goal: Health

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                    "So using your ridiculous reasoning just because "
                    "Do you see how ridiculous your reasoning is?"
                    "even had the slightest clue of what you were talking about then"

                    There you go again being totally abusive to anyone who disagrees with you.
                    I treat people the way they treat me.

                    Now, once again Grizz this thread is not about me. Try to focus for once and read what the topic of this thread is about then try to stay on topic. Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      You haven't? What do you call this one from your journal:
                      Post #470:
                      Do I have to define what personal attacks are to you?
                      I have the right to vent on my journal if I want to. You did not have the right to come there and start bashing me. Which you did. In multiple PAGES of ranting text. That was out of line. A journal is a private space where my friends and I are having a conversation. You barging in with your diatribes was Just. Not. Cool.

                      Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                      Is anyone else having deja vu?
                      All over again.

                      Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      Unverifiable claims of successful treatments are hardly evidence.

                      Another great example of why your post has no credibility. Notice how they left out the fact that the Japanese also consume very large amounts of bromine and sodium chloride with the seafood they consume. Note that Grizz was kind enough earlier to post how much higher in bromine the ocean is compared to iodine. Thus the Japanese intake of bromide alone would well exceed their intake of iodine. And as we have all heard over and over bromide displaces iodine. And so does the sodium and the chloride of the salt. So we have all that bromide and salt protecting the Japanese from iodine poisoning.

                      Furthermore, if you bothered to do some real research you would have found that the decreased rate of breast cancer in Japan has been linked to the high intake of phytoestrogens, not iodine, in the traditional Japanese diet. Most of the phytoestrogens come from their intake of soy products and seaweeds. Seaweeds also contain immune stimulating polysaccharides that help prevent cancer in large part by helping the body fight off cancer viruses.

                      In addition, you are contradicting yourself in a way. You are claiming a high rate of goiter and breast cancer due to a deficiency of iodine. Do you know what the primary food is in Iceland? Ocean fish, full of iodine!!! When I was over there the cost of fish was around the equivalent of $2.00 a pound. So it was the least expensive meat over there. Ground beef was the equivalent of $8.00 a pound and steak $15.00 a pound. One of the things I heard over and over from the people over there was the high cost of living so they primarily bought fish as their main diet. Lamb is the other big meat over there, which was a little cheaper than ground beef. But the sheep feed on grass, as do the very limited cattle, which pick up iodine from the ocean spray since the only pasture is along the coastal edges. The interior of Iceland is considered pretty much uninhabitable consisting mainly of glaciers, black sand deserts, rivers, and moss covered hills and flat lands. So the only grazing areas are along the coastal edges where the grass and other vegetation pick up iodine from the ocean spray.

                      Again, this is why you should rely more on real research as evidence rather that bogus propaganda sites that just happen to fit your needs.
                      James, you really should be nicer to me since I am in agreement with you more times than not. Like this. Spot on.

                      Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      You really have a talent of dancing around things to avoid actually having to back your claims. People do that when they know they are wrong. Just like Grizz has demanded I answer all of his questions but keeps ignoring my questions for him because he also knows he has nothing substantial to back his claims with. In his case though he just ignores me as where in your case we excuses on top of excuses on top of excuses!!!

                      It has nothing to do with being a legume. The people who claim soy is bad for cancer use the excuse that the phytoestrogens in cancer promote cancer. If that is the case then how do they explain that we do not see widespread cancer despite EVERY plant humans consume contain phytoestrogens?

                      And then there is the fact that phytoestrogens are 200-400 times weaker than human estrogens. And even weaker than the true estrogens found in meats like beef. So what do you eat to error on the side of caution since you apparently don't trust phytoestrogens, which are found in all plants, and the hormones in animal flesh are considerably stronger and thus more dangerous than the phytoestrogens in plants?

                      Right, just like your claim that you never attacked me, which I also disproved. Clearly you do not want to debate because you know that you will get trounced again in that debate. I don't blame you. If I were as ill informed as you I would not want to debate either. The difference between us is that I don't come up with bogus excuses to try to get around it.
                      I don't have to prove anything to anyone including you. I make my choices for me. I'm not interested in a debate about soy because, like I said, there is ample evidence on both sides. There is no consensus on this. But of course your POV and evidence are the only ones that matter, right?

                      Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      I see you still cannot control yourself with the insults. No wonder so many people on these boards hate you.
                      Physician, heal thyself.

                      Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                      Now, once again Grizz this thread is not about me. Try to focus for once and read what the topic of this thread is about then try to stay on topic. Thanks.
                      Try taking your own advice. Both of you are acting like children.
                      Last edited by Paleobird; 08-18-2012, 03:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally Posted by Grizz
                        "So using your ridiculous reasoning just because "
                        "Do you see how ridiculous your reasoning is?"
                        "even had the slightest clue of what you were talking about then"

                        There you go again being totally abusive to anyone who disagrees with you.

                        Originally posted by JamesS
                        I treat people the way they treat me.

                        Now, once again Grizz this thread is not about me. Try to focus for once and read what the topic of this thread is about then try to stay on topic. Thanks.
                        What part of your message highlighted was not insulting & abusive which was totally uncalled for. Anyone who doesn't agree with you gets abused & kicked around. This message is about you insulting & demeaning other members for no reason.

                        Now tell us what you said about iodine to get kicked out of IndiaDevine.
                        You said it was poisonous, didn't you?

                        Are you going to answer my question?
                        "What is your maximum dosage recommendation in MG for Lugols iodine for most people"

                        Grizz
                        Last edited by Grizz; 08-18-2012, 04:25 PM.

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                        • [QUOTE=JamesS;931962]Grizz, stop already with the personal attacks. If you want to discuss iodine then discuss iodine. But stop making it personal.

                          As for the comment above this says nothing about Lugol's as you kept claiming. Secondly, you need to learn the difference between iodine and iodide, which is less toxic. And finally, Paysan was exhibiting symptoms of iodine poisoning as has been pointed out. If you also research the symptoms of bromine poisoning from credible sites, in other words not places like the Curezone iodine forum, you will find that all of his symptoms were not consistent with bromine poisoning. They are consistent with iodine poisoning though. [/]

                          Sorry James, but I did mention several times that I am using Lugol's 2% iodine . I also looked up iodism and bromism, came to the conclusion that each side was claiming that rashes were caused by the other's meds; so took time off. Rashes are basically gone, bellyaches continue, and I KNOW various docs have recommended single large doses of iodine to cope with bad air (on planes) and bad water. So, for now, I'm back on iodine.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JamesS View Post
                            It's kind of creepy how fixated you are on me Grizz. Please, you are not my type.

                            ...
                            Mercola on the other hand I have proven wrong on a number of occasions simply because he makes up to many claims going with the internet myths he reads rather than doing the actual research on the subjects. For example these:

                            Addressing Mercola's myths about fructose

                            Iodine

                            Addressing Mercola's anti-soy propaganda

                            Magnesium Stearate

                            Re: Finally, Proof that Cancer is a Man-Made Disease (article)

                            Mercola, Weston Price wrong on Soy "dangers"

                            If Mercola does not want to be so discredited then he needs to stop repeating internet propaganda and start doing some real research.
                            OK, now you're getting offtopic -again! James. Mercola makes me back off mostly because 1. his products are ALWAYS better and safer than the competition and 2. he claims credit for what "his team" uncovers. Nevertheless, he hasn't steered me way off course yet, even if I do take many claims with a pound of (sea)salt.If you start a thread promoting soy use, I might just drop in.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              I have the right to vent on my journal if I want to. You did not have the right to come there and start bashing me. Which you did. In multiple PAGES of ranting text. That was out of line. A journal is a private space where my friends and I are having a conversation. You barging in with your diatribes was Just. Not. Cool.
                              Paleobird,
                              So you are saying that James had the NERVE to barge into your own journal to create havoc, dissention, and to insult you? Not even I would ever do a thing like that. I think you should report him before he spreads his tentacles all over MDA.

                              Sorry, James you are so abusive that I just can't believe it! I have NEVER seen anyone as abusive, insulting and mean spirited as you are at Marks Daily Apple. BTW) I just signed up for IndiaDivine to see exactly why you were thrown out. I'll bet I get a real EARFUL.

                              Paleobird, what can we do about this insulting Troll?

                              Grizz
                              Last edited by Grizz; 08-18-2012, 09:37 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                                Originally Posted by Grizz
                                "So using your ridiculous reasoning just because "
                                "Do you see how ridiculous your reasoning is?"
                                "even had the slightest clue of what you were talking about then"

                                There you go again being totally abusive to anyone who disagrees with you.


                                What part of your message highlighted was not insulting & abusive which was totally uncalled for. Anyone who doesn't agree with you gets abused & kicked around. This message is about you insulting & demeaning other members for no reason.

                                Now tell us what you said about iodine to get kicked out of IndiaDevine.
                                You said it was poisonous, didn't you?

                                Are you going to answer my question?
                                "What is your maximum dosage recommendation in MG for Lugols iodine for most people"

                                Grizz

                                Actually as a very infrequent guest I need grizz to tell me who"US" is. You use this term frequently as if you are the lead spokesperson of some massive group of like minded individuals. Please tell me who gave you this authority? Are you speaking for yourself or not? Your "us" thing just seems like some sort of devious implement if you can't actually show who you represent.

                                To make it easier all those who are a part of Grizz's "us" please respond now.
                                Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-18-2012, 05:01 PM.

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