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Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
    From the Mercola link above, I thought this was interesting. In one paragraph, he states:


    "The new study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, revealed that study participants taking relatively higher doses of supplemental iodine -- 400 micrograms a day and more – paradoxically began developing subclinical hypothyroidism."


    Then a few paragraphs down:

    "The Japanese consume 89 times more iodine than Americans due to their daily consumption of sea vegetables, and they have reduced rates of many chronic diseases, including the lowest rates of cancer in the world. The RDA for iodine in the U.S. is a meager 150 mcg/day, which pales in comparison with the average daily intake of 13800 mcg/day for the Japanese.

    There is a large body of evidence suggesting that low cancer rates in Japan are a result of their substantially higher iodine levels, as iodine has documented antioxidant and anti-proliferative properties."



    So.... huh? Which is it? Amounts over 400mcg will hurt you. Or, amounts @ 13800 mcg will help you.

    I cornfused...
    Perhaps the difference is Supplemental vs. Natural/dietary.
    Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
    I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
    Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
    ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

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    • #17
      I've had no ill-effects taking iodine even at fairly high levels. I have not been taking any supplements of any kind at all for about a month now and feel just fine. I'm suspicious of CW warnings about things like iodine when what CW offers isn't always the most helpful or the least harmful. In my opinion, the warnings regarding iodine are really overblown, as are perhaps the benefits.
      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
        From the Mercola link above, I thought this was interesting. In one paragraph, he states:


        "The new study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, revealed that study participants taking relatively higher doses of supplemental iodine -- 400 micrograms a day and more – paradoxically began developing subclinical hypothyroidism."


        Then a few paragraphs down:

        "The Japanese consume 89 times more iodine than Americans due to their daily consumption of sea vegetables, and they have reduced rates of many chronic diseases, including the lowest rates of cancer in the world. The RDA for iodine in the U.S. is a meager 150 mcg/day, which pales in comparison with the average daily intake of 13800 mcg/day for the Japanese.

        There is a large body of evidence suggesting that low cancer rates in Japan are a result of their substantially higher iodine levels, as iodine has documented antioxidant and anti-proliferative properties."



        So.... huh? Which is it? Amounts over 400mcg will hurt you. Or, amounts @ 13800 mcg will help you.

        I cornfused...
        Several studies warn about hypothyroidism from iodine supplementation; others say it's not a problem. There are studies showing increased thyroid problems in the Japanese.

        How much iodine the Japanese consume is disputed. The latest study says 1-2mg / day. This 13.8mg / day figure is often quoted, yet nobody seems able to provide details of the research that lead to that figure. If it's based on e.g. the weight of seaweed a 'typical' Japanese person was observed eating on a typical day, it's completely worthless. Different seaweeds contain different amounts of iodine, & cooking methods can make a huge difference to how much iodine is left (& again that varies for different seaweeds).

        I'm not saying they didn't used to average that amount, but it could just be a random figure plucked from the air, or might only apply to a small remote village that ate nothing but raw seaweed. In which case you then have to ask what the cancer rates were in that village compared to the islands as a whole.

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        • #19
          I take 6.25 mg of Iodoral per day. A few points about why:

          1. I would love to get it from dietary sources, but access to clean sources is not easy, and getting enough from seafood/seaweed would be a far greater hit to my food budget (which is tight for now) than the relatively cheap supplement.
          2. I had a total thyroidectomy several years ago, so I have no concerns about potential negative effects. If I still had my thyroid, I would likely be more cautious, and work closely with my doctor.
          3. I have a strong family history of breast cancer. This is my primary reason for supplementing.
          4. Since I started supplementing, my cycles have regulated to 28 days (they used to be a bit longer) and my menstrual cramps have almost entirely disappeared, so obviously it has affected my hormones in a good way.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Danielle5690 View Post
            I take 6.25 mg of Iodoral per day. A few points about why:

            1. I would love to get it from dietary sources, but access to clean sources is not easy, and getting enough from seafood/seaweed would be a far greater hit to my food budget (which is tight for now) than the relatively cheap supplement.
            2. I had a total thyroidectomy several years ago, so I have no concerns about potential negative effects. If I still had my thyroid, I would likely be more cautious, and work closely with my doctor.
            3. I have a strong family history of breast cancer. This is my primary reason for supplementing.
            4. Since I started supplementing, my cycles have regulated to 28 days (they used to be a bit longer) and my menstrual cramps have almost entirely disappeared, so obviously it has affected my hormones in a good way.
            I decided to take Norweigan Kelp after getting about 75 pgs into that old thread. By around page 90 there was a warning that it could contain high levels of arsenic. By this time, I was already taking it and I thought, "f it" I'll keep going with it.

            The main reasons I looked into taking iodine is because after increasing my carbs to help with fatigue, I saw some
            improvement but, not a whole lot. Then I noticed fatigue during the day and problems sleeping at night. I also knew I was eating little to no iodine in dietary source, so I dove into that massive thread. As I started reading about symptoms of low thyroid, I noticed I had many, including cold hands and feet and low body temp. Then when I read about breast cancer, I decided to start the kelp pills. My mom had breast cancer and I know she had a lot of these symptoms too, like cold hands and feet. When I first started the kelp pills, I noticed I was warm a lot and I had wayyyy better sleeps. Also sexual desire increased. Then it tappered off or something and I felt the same. I'm having difficulty falling alseep again and sexual desire is "meh". Do I up? I don't know. I'm right now at 1.5mg/day. Seems like a reasonable #

            Yes that thread got a little crazy. I think I read it up to 200 'n some but, I took from it what I thought was important to me.
            Last edited by labmonkey; 08-01-2012, 08:36 AM.

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            • #21
              I should up date this thread as my last post on the matter may have given the wrong idea.

              Since then, I have had the crap kicked out of me by some sort of viral illness. Googling the symptoms makes the most likely illness to be mono or Mollart's meningitis.

              This is not as hyperchondriac as it sounds as I have had these mysterious phases out of the blue before, with migraine type pain, aching joints and muscles, gut distress, and nausea.

              So long story short I believe the illness not the sudden cessation of iodine was responsible for my swollen feeling throat. It was probably my glands, not my thyroid.

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              • #22
                In this video you will see why the AMA, FDA, and Doctors don’t want any kind of treatment for cancer other than chemo, radiation for cancer. At about 1 hour 30 minutes into the video tincture of iodine is mentioned. No. No mega doses, just painting.

                The compromised Quackwatch site is mentioned too.

                Cancer - The Forbidden Cures - YouTube

                With love,

                t2t

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by labmonkey View Post
                  I decided to take Norweigan Kelp after getting about 75 pgs into that old thread. By around page 90 there was a warning that it could contain high levels of arsenic. By this time, I was already taking it and I thought, "f it" I'll keep going with it.

                  The main reasons I looked into taking iodine is because after increasing my carbs to help with fatigue, I saw some
                  improvement but, not a whole lot. Then I noticed fatigue during the day and problems sleeping at night. I also knew I was eating little to no iodine in dietary source, so I dove into that massive thread. As I started reading about symptoms of low thyroid, I noticed I had many, including cold hands and feet and low body temp. Then when I read about breast cancer, I decided to start the kelp pills. My mom had breast cancer and I know she had a lot of these symptoms too, like cold hands and feet. When I first started the kelp pills, I noticed I was warm a lot and I had wayyyy better sleeps. Also sexual desire increased. Then it tappered off or something and I felt the same. I'm having difficulty falling alseep again and sexual desire is "meh". Do I up? I don't know. I'm right now at 1.5mg/day. Seems like a reasonable #

                  Yes that thread got a little crazy. I think I read it up to 200 'n some but, I took from it what I thought was important to me.
                  I've always had symptoms of deficiency too (cold all the time, cold extremities, migraines, difficult/painful periods, etc.), which is what got my attention. I find I'm warmer and sleeping more deeply these days too. But the biggest thing for me is the link to breast cancer.

                  Taking magnesium before bed might help you sleep better. Also, if you want to increase your dose do it a tiny bit at a time until you feel better again, and make sure you are getting enough selenium. From everything I've read, the presence of adequate selenium helps protect the thyroid from side effects of increased iodine.

                  I agree, that thread got out of hand and preachy at times, but I appreciate the information I was able to take from it. I think each person has to consider their own situation and decide what the best course of action is for them. For me, there's no downside to supplementing, and pretty big real and potential upsides, so I do it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sceptic View Post
                    Any idea why he recommends a magnesium supplement? I'm sure most people aren't getting as much as they should, but is there an actual reason related to the iodine supplementation and/or the thyroid?
                    I'm curious about the supplements as well. Following are the "required" supplements:

                    1/2 tsp unrefined salt
                    Selenium 200 mcg
                    Magnesium 400 mg
                    Vitamin C 2000 mg +
                    ATP Co-Factors (100 mg Riboflavin, 500 mg Niacin)

                    I have read elsewhere (Paul Jaminet at perfecthealthdiet.com) that adequate levels of selenium are essential when supplementing iodine, but I'm not so sure about the other supplements. Obviously some level of them are required anyway (independent of iodine supplementation), and many people are likely deficient in at least a couple of them (magnesium and selenium especially). I was taking magnesium and also eating a brazil nut each day as "selenium insurance" before I ever thought about supplementing iodine.

                    As for the other supplements, the sea salt (NOT table salt !!! ) being required seems like bunk to me. Most people get plenty of salt, and I don't see why it needs to be sea salt anyway. The other minerals in sea salt besides NaCl are in microscopic amounts anyway. Supposedly the vitamin C is for the "detox symptoms", but I'm not sure I buy that either. If I got those symptoms, I'd just take less iodine. And finally, on the ATP Co-factors, that's a supplement sold by Brownstein's partner I believe. I can't imagine that I'm deficient in any of the B's, and that seems like a lot more Niacin then needed.

                    By the way, I just take 225 mcg of Potassium iodide each day, along with an occasional seaweed snack (the Seasnax are great, by the way!).
                    LastBottleWines

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                    • #25
                      I think a Primal approach to supplementation--in MOST cases--might look at how our ancestors ate. Seasonally bumping up certain nutrients. Maybe gorging on fish, seaweed & caviar one month, filling up on sea-based vitamins. Eating liver & offal in the winter. Or in the summer, eating antioxidant-rich fruits & veggies that help protect against the suns' radiation.

                      I have taken magnesium & vitamin E & other supplements....but when it starts tasting gross, or not making me feel as wonderful as before, I figure my body's had enough, and I stop. I can't imagine spending years supplementing with megadoses of iodine. Or Vitamin D. Or Vitamin Anything. When did people get the idea that we need to take a pill or powder every day? Supplements are a good way to correct deficiencies.

                      Once the deficiency is corrected, food-based nutrients should keep levels at an optimal level. In MOST cases. So megadosing with Vitamin D can have miraculous effects, but over years? Decades? I bet the researchers watched people Deficient in vitamin D get back to optimal. Once at optimal, a primal diet & adequate sunshine should maintain that health (with maybe a dose of fermented cod liver oil here and there).

                      I think our perspective on what supplements can do is skewed. I would imagine that dosing with iodine through detox & to better blood & health markers, then easing over to food-based sources, might be a gentler way.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        no supplement is "required"

                        calling them supplements is a poor use of language as well.

                        sup·ple·ment (spl-mnt)
                        n.
                        1. Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.

                        why do i take this position, I who ingests ginormous amounts of magnesium, Vitamin D, and sulphur derivatives daily?

                        The simple reason is that if you eat real food in proper amounts you need nothing else..... Unless


                        now what would that unless be. well one thing thta unless could be is that you need to correct a current deficiency. Ones optimal diet SHALL ( legal verbiage here ) provide the required nutrition for optimal human growth, maintenance and repair.

                        this is difficult but not impossible.

                        so lets say you have an Vitamin D deficiency. You could eat your way out of it , however that would require an intake which would cause weight gain in the short term. so we add an extra amount of vitamin D in pill form to obtain that which we need without the extra calories.

                        Taking iodine outside of an optimal diet is rarely needed for thyroid hormone health and production.(warning authors opinion based on own research) the problem tends to be one of other metabolic disorders OR other micro nutrients imbalances, such as selenium and tyrosine.

                        interestingly enough if one worries less about weight and more about an optimal diet one finds the temporary weight gain more than offset by the increase in health and subsequent weight loss.

                        do we need iodine.... YES. do we need to take it in "supplement form"..... MAYBE.... eat right first.then with labwork discover your own truth.

                        You came this far, dont stop now discovering what YOU need for Yourself.
                        Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                        Predator not Prey
                        Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                        CW 315 | SW 506
                        Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                        Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by fitmom View Post
                          I think a Primal approach to supplementation--in MOST cases--might look at how our ancestors ate. Seasonally bumping up certain nutrients. Maybe gorging on fish, seaweed & caviar one month, filling up on sea-based vitamins. Eating liver & offal in the winter. Or in the summer, eating antioxidant-rich fruits & veggies that help protect against the suns' radiation.

                          I have taken magnesium & vitamin E & other supplements....but when it starts tasting gross, or not making me feel as wonderful as before, I figure my body's had enough, and I stop. I can't imagine spending years supplementing with megadoses of iodine. Or Vitamin D. Or Vitamin Anything. When did people get the idea that we need to take a pill or powder every day? Supplements are a good way to correct deficiencies.

                          Once the deficiency is corrected, food-based nutrients should keep levels at an optimal level. In MOST cases. So megadosing with Vitamin D can have miraculous effects, but over years? Decades? I bet the researchers watched people Deficient in vitamin D get back to optimal. Once at optimal, a primal diet & adequate sunshine should maintain that health (with maybe a dose of fermented cod liver oil here and there).

                          I think our perspective on what supplements can do is skewed. I would imagine that dosing with iodine through detox & to better blood & health markers, then easing over to food-based sources, might be a gentler way.
                          +1

                          i was still writing when you posted this.
                          Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                          Predator not Prey
                          Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                          CW 315 | SW 506
                          Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                          Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Danielle5690 View Post
                            I've always had symptoms of deficiency too (cold all the time, cold extremities, migraines, difficult/painful periods, etc.), which is what got my attention. I find I'm warmer and sleeping more deeply these days too. But the biggest thing for me is the link to breast cancer.

                            Taking magnesium before bed might help you sleep better. Also, if you want to increase your dose do it a tiny bit at a time until you feel better again, and make sure you are getting enough selenium. From everything I've read, the presence of adequate selenium helps protect the thyroid from side effects of increased iodine.

                            I agree, that thread got out of hand and preachy at times, but I appreciate the information I was able to take from it. I think each person has to consider their own situation and decide what the best course of action is for them. For me, there's no downside to supplementing, and pretty big real and potential upsides, so I do it.
                            This is what I take at breakfast:
                            1 brazil nut
                            300mg of Magnesium citrate (Horse pills!!)
                            4000IU Vit D (gels)
                            1.5mg of Norw. Kelp pills

                            So you think it'd be better to move the Mag to night time? Pills at night make me nervous. I've had insomnia in the past, even been on sleeping pills, That "S" scares me. I went cold turkey when I realized how addictive they could be. I know Magnesium is an nataural mineral but, it still freaks me a bit to "take ____ at night" to help me sleep. :S

                            I've been on 1.5mg Kelp for 6 weeks. I could up again. When I'm done this kelp should I seek out Iodoral next?

                            oh man Quelson, what's this tyrosine you speak of? Uggh, back to google I go.

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                            • #29
                              So after a 5 sec google search on Tyrosine, I probably shouldn't supplement that. I suspect I'd be bouncing off the walls. I can barely have 1 regular cup of coffee with being wired for half the day. And this stuff converts into norepinephrine.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Radialhead View Post
                                Did that happen with you? Were there any specific signs to the athlete's foot disappearing, or did it just clear up after n days/weeks?
                                Nothing dramatic, it just cleared up.

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