Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • @Paleobird,

    Even though this was a study done on animals doesn’t it suggest Iodine and or other meds could help, the body, reverse cancer, at least some cancers?

    Even taking 100 milligrams of Iodine a day I still had bleeding ulcers but when I started taking 125 MILLIgrams of elemental Iodine 4 times a day with 200 MICROgrams of selenomethionine 4 times a day too, for 2 months, I stopped bleeding. Yes. I was taking 2000 Iu’s of D3 at the time and 5 mg’s of K2 also. So I believe that Iodine helped my body heal my ulcers once and for all. I can’t prove it other than my word. After several years of no stomach pain and bleeding on the toilet I believe I am cured! I could go back to the Doctor and let them put the camera down into my stomach again but I don’t feel the need.

    Iodine Alters Gene Expression in the MCF7 Breast Cancer Cell Line: Evidence for an Anti-Estrogen Effect of Iodine

    Cancer ND: Iodine Helps Prevent and Treat Breast Cancer

    I seek good health and hopefully in a safe way like everyone.

    t2t

    P.S. Just talked in person with my sister in law. She said that the Doctor told her the cancer was a low grade cancer (she couldn't remember the name) I will try to find out later on. Because of her family history, her Doctor is adamant that my SNL should get a total breast removal (both) and something about armpit glands too. The Doctor even told my SNL that she would give this same advice to her own mother. I asked my SNL if she going to explore the idea of any meds that might help her. She replied that for years she has said that if she was ever diagnosed with cancer she WOULD just go ahead and get them removed. My wife is going wirh her sister, to the Plastc surgeon and then cancer Doctor next Wednesday to set up the operation date.
    Last edited by t2t; 08-07-2012, 08:46 AM. Reason: 4 times a day Update on SNL

    Comment


    • Originally posted by t2t View Post

      t2t

      P.S. Just talked in person with my sister in law. She said that the Doctor told her the cancer was a low grade cancer (she couldn't remember the name) I will try to find out later on. Because of her family history, her Doctor is adamant that my SNL should get a total breast removal (both) and something about armpit glands too. I asked her was she going to explore the idea of any meds that might help her. She replied that for years she has said that if she was ever diagnosed with cancer she WOULD just go ahead and get them removed.
      I'm chiming in here since I'm also pretty familiar with cancer, just not personally so like Paleobird. I would recommend strongly that your SIL get a second opinion and if she has not had BRCA and possibly even BART testing, she needs to get that done. If they are recommending bilateral mastectomy AND lymph node dissection, then the doctors think there is a possibility of metastatic disease even with the cancer being considered a low grade. The only medications (in my own personal opinion) that can "help" at this point are chemotherapy or possibly hormone blockers if the cancer is estrogen receptor positive. Iodine may be a great supplement and it may indeed help to prevent some illnesses, but once cancer has been found, all bets are off.

      I type enough reports about women with breast cancer (and all other types of cancer) that I, too, have pretty much decided in my own mind that if something were to be found, then I'd just go for the mastectomy/ies.

      Best wishes to your sister in law. I hope she has an outcome that is favorable to her.

      Comment


      • I haven't been in this thread much lately, or really contributed, because my medical issues are acting up and it makes reading medical information and journal articles and such very difficult.
        But I have to ask this.
        If the best recommendation that a doctor has in the case of cancer(yes, get a second opinion and all that) is to have a mastectomy, what is the big deal?
        Breasts are not necessary to function. Yes, I'm sure it's a process that will change a person, but so are a million other things. Like children who end up watching their mother die, because she wanted to keep her boobs?!
        This culture places far too much emphasis on the physical breast as a marker of "womanhood" or "femininity".
        This is ridiculous.
        If a person had bone cancer in their lower leg, or cancer in their eye, I think they would be more likely to comfortably say "Yes"to removal in this country than breast removal. It's a shame.
        Breasts are great, but they are not necessary to live a happy life.
        Notice a key word there... LIVE.
        If they ever tell me mine need to go, they can have them!

        Best wishes to your sister in law t2t.
        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

        Comment


        • You'd be amazed, Cori. There are women and men who are emotionally attached to body parts. I'm not judging them for it. I have typed a number of reports for women who wanted a breast conservation approach no matter what. I've typed reports for a couple of women who started out as stage I and refused any type of chemo or surgical approach and then a number of years later they were back with stage IV disease and ready to get aggressive, but it was too late. I've done reports for women who agreed to have chemotherapy, but only the kind that didn't make their hair fall out (yes, there are some of those) even if it was not the most effective one or the one the doctor recommended.

          Comment


          • Thank you RobinNM and cori.

            t2t

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DuhPrincess View Post



              So again, I will ask that those of you who refuse to use iodine supplements for bromide detoxing or other health concerns go start another thread that is devoted entirely to "Haters of Iodine Supplementation and Outright Disdain for Those Who Use It." Then you can stop peeing in our pool where we want to simply discuss iodine with each other so we can make good choices as we use it. And I promise I won't come to your hateful thread and pee in YOUR pool. And if you aren't mature enough to accept something so reasonable, I again say that it has to be a truly hateful person that would refuse that compromise. Many of you are like a fly buzzing near my ear with no real purpose to be here other than to continue buzzing & biting until I finally get frustrated enough to swat you. Grizz said and it wouldn't work to start a new thread because you'd all come here and do the same thing again. When I read PB's very first post here bashing Brownstein, I almost posted, "Grizz called it!" I resisted at the time but then went overboard swatting later. (Quote by PaleoBird: "Dr. Brownstein is in the business of selling iodine and supplements. Is it any wonder he advocates such a high dosage of iodine and says the supplements are "required"?")
              Note the title of this thread - 'A discussion and perhaps a civilised debate" It wasn't begun as a Brownstein supporters thread, it wasn't started as a thread for those who wanted huge doses of iodine only - it was begun so that people with any opinions regarding using iodine in any amounts could discuss their experience, views, results etc. The people who are posting on here, by and large, are certainly not iodine haters, or, to use your rather coarse expression, "pissing in your pool" This thread is, actually, not YOUR POOL but an open forum - for views covering all angles of iodine use.

              Personally, as a result of this, and the previous, thread, I increased the amount of iodine I had been taking from three kelp pills daily (which I had taken for YEARS) to a couple of drops of Lugols per week.

              And after reading a lot of the links posted, which helped me to make up my own mind regarding which studies etc I thought sound, and which I didn't, I have reverted to kelp mainly, with the odd drop of lugols in water. And many thanks to all those posting moderate views which helped me to this position.

              And the bit about flies buzzing around your ear - isn't this a bit of a high handed, even egocentric, approach to so many sound, measured posts??!! You say that Grizz said that it would be no good starting a new post because "you'd all come here and do the same thing again". Could I respectfully point out that this thread was started to be a moderate thread and that in fact it is Grizz and you who have come here to "do the same thing again".
              Last edited by breadsauce; 08-07-2012, 10:46 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by t2t View Post
                When I paint 200 to 300 Milligrams of Iodine on my daughter’s back I have to give her much less insulin.
                For instance when I checked her blood last night it was a little high at 156. (she sneaks food at times) So I gave her 11 and a half units, of the 24 hour insulin LANTUS. I normally give her 13 units. I didn’t give her any NOVALOG the 2 hour insulin as usually I would have given her at least 1 whole unit of the NOVALOG with the 13 units of the LANTUS.
                She was extra active yesterday also so I didn’t give her the D3. I would have had to of reduced her insulin even more if I would have given her even 5000 IU’s of D3.

                Both she and my wife had HYPOthyroid several months ago. They both were on 5000 IU’s of D3 at the time and both were taking up to 5 MILLIgrams of K2. My daughter’s TSH from the pituitary gland was over 4. My wife’s was over 5.
                So I started painting 200 to 300 MILLIgrams of iodine on both of them. That’s roughly 24 to 34 MILLIgrams of iodine absorbed into the bloodstream. Had both of them taking 200 MICROgrams of SeMC selenium also. ( I cannot stress the need for selenomethionine or SeMC enough while taking Iodine) No other cofactors were being taken. I talked our Doctor into rechecking both of their TSH’s a little over eight weeks later.

                My wife’s ad Daughter’s TSH’s were 1.31 and 1.41 as best as I can remember. However their body temperature was 96.1 and 97.2 respectively too. So I got the Doctor to give them each 30 MILLIgrams of Armour and both of their body temperatures’ have risen up to 98.4 when checked in the morning before they both get out of bed.

                I am not saying that anyone on this board take any amount of iodine or any selenomethionine. I am just saying what Iodine and selenomethionine (now SeMC has done for my family and me.) And 30 mg’s of Armour for my wife and daughter. And of course D3 and K2 mk4 with iodine has caused my wife to lose over 30 lbs in 8 weeks and my daughter and I to lose over 16 lbs. Actually I have lost over 25 lbs total after I upped my D3 intake from 2000 IU’s to 10,000 IU’s like my wife takes each and every night t bedtime. And we all take 1 mg’s of K2 mk4 three times a day with 1 teaspoon of coconut or olive oil. (I am taking 3 tablespoons instead of teaspoons temporarily to see if it will raise my HDL above 30) on my next blood test.

                P.S. The higher amounts of D3 have already dropped my A1C to 6.1. I had already stopped taking metformin several weeks before that blood test was conducted.
                There are so many confounding variables going on here. Diet compliance (or lack thereof), activity levels, other supplements, prescription medication, dietary changes, weight loss all have an effect. I don't doubt that iodine is an aspect of a healthy body but to draw a causal link here is a stretch.

                Originally posted by t2t View Post
                Even though this was a study done on animals doesn’t it suggest Iodine and or other meds could help, the body, reverse cancer, at least some cancers?

                Even taking 100 milligrams of Iodine a day I still had bleeding ulcers but when I started taking 125 MILLIgrams of elemental Iodine 4 times a day with 200 MICROgrams of selenomethionine 4 times a day too, for 2 months, I stopped bleeding. Yes. I was taking 2000 Iu’s of D3 at the time and 5 mg’s of K2 also. So I believe that Iodine helped my body heal my ulcers once and for all. I can’t prove it other than my word. After several years of no stomach pain and bleeding on the toilet I believe I am cured! I could go back to the Doctor and let them put the camera down into my stomach again but I don’t feel the need.

                Iodine Alters Gene Expression in the MCF7 Breast Cancer Cell Line: Evidence for an Anti-Estrogen Effect of Iodine

                Cancer ND: Iodine Helps Prevent and Treat Breast Cancer
                These two links a a perfect example about how real science goes wrong. The first is a very interesting study about iodine inducing cancer cell death in a petri dish. That is basis for more research, yes, but it is orders of magnitude away from the second headline on a ND's blog trumpeting a "cure". Even the first article does not ever go anywhere near the word cure and only postulates that there may be some "protective effect" to iodine. When you read the ND's blog post it also is quite reasonable suggesting moderate supplementation from natural sources IF you are diagnosed as deficient. But the headline is the attention grabber.

                Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                If a person had bone cancer in their lower leg, or cancer in their eye, I think they would be more likely to comfortably say "Yes"to removal in this country than breast removal. It's a shame.
                Breasts are great, but they are not necessary to live a happy life.
                Notice a key word there... LIVE.
                If they ever tell me mine need to go, they can have them!
                Exactly. LIVE.

                Originally posted by RobinNM View Post
                You'd be amazed, Cori. There are women and men who are emotionally attached to body parts. I'm not judging them for it. I have typed a number of reports for women who wanted a breast conservation approach no matter what. I've typed reports for a couple of women who started out as stage I and refused any type of chemo or surgical approach and then a number of years later they were back with stage IV disease and ready to get aggressive, but it was too late. I've done reports for women who agreed to have chemotherapy, but only the kind that didn't make their hair fall out (yes, there are some of those) even if it was not the most effective one or the one the doctor recommended.
                My doctors tried the lumpectomy approach on me TWICE and still the tumor eluded them. Then I got the full mastectomy. If I had it to do over again, I would skip the first two ops and go directly to mastectomy. Fewer layers of scar tissue and less time in the hospital.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  *sigh*

                  Iodine. Does. Not. Cure. Cancer.
                  Iodine deficiency may allow cancers to grow unchecked. Adding sufficient iodine to overcome the deficiency (along with the helpful supplements), may restore the body to enough health that its immune system cures the cancer. In all disease states that have happy endings, it is still the immune system that should get the credit, not radiation, not poisoning, not amputation.

                  Comment


                  • OK, first of all that is only one study and the other one is just re-quoting the yahoo post. If you bothered to watch the Fox News ("fair and balanced") clip in the yahoo post, you will see that even there, they are not advocating against chemo. This study is explaining why long term chemo is not as effective as short term. And it is the basis for improving chemo treatments, not chucking them.

                    Again, as bloodorchid pointed out upthread, your reading comprehension could be improved.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RobinNM View Post
                      Iodine may be a great supplement and it may indeed help to prevent some illnesses, but once cancer has been found, all bets are off.
                      This^^^

                      Originally posted by Paysan View Post
                      Iodine deficiency may allow cancers to grow unchecked. Adding sufficient iodine to overcome the deficiency (along with the helpful supplements), may restore the body to enough health that its immune system cures the cancer. In all disease states that have happy endings, it is still the immune system that should get the credit, not radiation, not poisoning, not amputation.
                      There is a big difference between having a healthy iodine level to support your immune system, and iodine curing an existing tumor. I don't doubt that iodine can be a very valuable adjunct to other medical care, supporting your immune system to keep you strong enough so that the chemo can do its job. But it is not going to make a tumor just "go away". That is magical thinking and is dangerous. Reality is sometimes hard. But medical treatment works.

                      Comment


                      • From what I can tell, DuhPrincess has an inherent mistrust of the medical establishment. As do I. In my opinion, the mistrust is well-founded and well-deserved. After all, most doctors participate in the promotion of the Standard American Diet, or if they don't actively promote it, they certainly do nothing to counter it. The failure of the SAD in our own lives is why most of us have ended up at this MDA forum. Yes, I will continue to go to use the medical establishment for injuries and such, but it's usually the last thing I think of when and if I have some strange symptom - which is rare.

                        Since giving up asthma meds after going 'primal', I wonder why nobody from the medical establishment ever addressed my diet while I fought childhood asthma and major allergy symptoms (95% which have also disappeared). Thanks Docs - that's some real fine medical work there! But those weekly allergy shots helped pay their bills. Took those until I was 18, and was given the option of paying for them myself with no insurance or discontinuing the shots. I quit, cold turkey, and the allergies were never any worse.

                        Been fighting a dry-mouth condition for a few weeks now, which started before my extended fast and has continued, although is getting a bit better. My wife really thinks I should see a doctor, and I really think that would be a complete waste of my time and money - unless I feel that adding some toxic prescription will really make my life better. No thanks, think I'll look into alternatives, suggestions and/or just let my body work through it.

                        Not that I'm even considering that this means I need iodine - hell, maybe I'm mercury or lead deficient. Just providing my thoughts on why I've considered iodine supplementation and alternatives to what even folks here label "real medicine". I'm happy for those of you who feel you've benefitted from traditional western medicine. I feel I've largely been let down by it.

                        Comment


                        • I would have to agree that I have been let down for the most part by traditional medicine. As a nursing student I learned how closed minded Universities are and that is what they teach medical and nursing students. I have been let down so many times by traditional medicine that I can't even count them on both hands. But......there is still some benefits to knowing where your health status is. If that means lab work, xrays, or mammagrams then so be it. I still would not completely trust everything that I learned from those tests but it's better to have some idea where you stand than to not know at all and to guess. You never know you could have some terrible dabilitating cancer and not have a clue. Traditional medicine is not perfect and neither is naturapathy. You have to learn from your mistakes and make educated decisions from those mistakes. I will still get check-ups, mammograms, and lab work. But I don't always take my endocrinologists advice (which is to remove my thyroid) and I don't necessarily always take my naturopaths advice (which is to stay away from foods containing iodine) either. I listen and learn from all of them and I also throw in a little bit of my own investigating and try to make the best decision regarding my health as well as my families.

                          I will choose natural medicine over traditional every day of my life. But I still understand the importance of traditional medicine in certain areas of my health. Some day I believe that traditional medicine will start to conform to a more natural way if only because so many people refuse to listen to thier doctors advice anymore because they want to push surgery, poisonous pills, and CW on us. The amount of Naturopathic doctors has risen in the last few years for a reason. People are demanding a more natural way of life. Heck even my GP who has never been a natural-pusher has started looking into more natural treatments and dietary changes before suggesting anti depressants and the like. That has been just in the past 3 years since he tried to put me on anti-depressants for migraines last time I saw him.

                          I choose to treat my Graves disease with iodine (and other supplements) because that is the only thing that works. Both my endo and naturoplath have warned against it but they ignore the fact that my goiter is almost gone and my symptoms are completely absent. My lab tests have not shown a single sign of the disease in years. Not because I removed my thyroid like my endo suggested. Not because I avoided foods with iodine like my naturopath suggested but because I educated myself and went with my gut. Iodine is a necessary mineral. We cannot live without it. I wish my doctors would understand that.
                          F/37yr/5' 5"
                          SW: 154 March 2011
                          CW: 140 July to Oct 2011
                          PB: 145 gained 5lbs in first 4 months March to July 2012
                          With a combo of PB and IF-ing 5 days a week (1 x 1200 calorie meal per day) I have lost 15 lbs PB/IF = 130 lbs July 2012 to current
                          GW: 120
                          Ultimate Goals ar to be: Happy/ Fit/ Energetic/ Feel great/ Balanced/ cure my thyroid and adrenals

                          Comment


                          • I'm with you .

                            Note, I'm not criticising anyone who chooses to go via the conventional route and have chemo. But honestly, something that destroys healthy cells and makes your hair fall out is NOT something that is healthy or can be treated lightly. It may even succeed in destroying one cancer, only to cause other cancers years down the track.

                            Comment


                            • Finally I read this whole thread. Here are all my thoughts, transferred from the other thread:

                              We probably are deficient in iodine, but not by the megadoses that Grizz advocated.

                              The idea that many of our problems began with brominated flour and brominated fire retardants is intriguing. Another good reason to cut out wheat.

                              The iodine theory is that we need to shove out toxic bromine/ide and replace it with iodine/ide. Sounds reasonable, but I see no reason to do it all at once.

                              From the evidence it appears that iodine has some effect on fibrocystic breast pain, and enlarged prostate (get up and go at night). Those two anecdotals, IMO, deserve a lot more study. Don't most cures start out as anecdotals? You have to start somewhere.

                              I don't want to trust CureZone based on a comment from Grizz. Grizz said something like dissent is not tolerated and people are banned. All that does is filter out negative results. No wonder CureZone is full of positive stories.

                              I have Lugol's but I've decided to supplement with kombu kelp instead. One serving of Kombu kelp is about 1 mg, I think.* That's 10 times the RDA. One serving on Kombu and a salt/kelp mixture on my morning eggs is sufficient.

                              Since I'm not taking magadoses of iodine, I don't feel the need to take the megadoses of supplement protocol. So I just take the Vitamin C and the brazil nuts and call it a day. I don't know how magnesium makes people sleepy. I took 200 mgs and it never worked for me. I tried to salt protocol and all it did was raise my blood pressure from 100 to 125. I stopped immediately.

                              I tried to use Lugols to remove some moles. This is what I found: Yes, Iodine does sort of remove moles, but only sort of. Mainly, iodine burned my skin to a crisp and when it peeled off, a little of the mole came with it. I tried to make a small-spot band-aid but that didn't seem to work as well burning all the surrounding skin. I don't know if the iodine works because it attacks the mole, or because it just takes the skin off wholesale. In the end I stopped using the iodine altogether because it was a bloody mess. End result: two brown toe moles went from very visible to gray spots which are hard to see. A prominant flat dark brown mole is now a slightly recessed dark gray spot, but it took 3 months of iodine application and painful peeling to get that far. A flesh colored mole was not affected. The jury is still out on the cherry angioma (tiny red mole). It still looks burnt. I may try it on another mole which appears to be less deep, but not until wintertime, when I can cover up with more clothing. It will probably take another month before my skin returns to its original color. Now it still looks darker than the rest of me.

                              I like the idea of a mammo at age 40. The "detriment" to mammo is mental anguish and false positives and the insurance aspect. It's not like the mammo fails to detect (many) cancers. So I don't see the conservatism as a bad thing. The mental anguish happens when the radiologist finds something and tells you to come back in two weeks. I had a false asymmetry. Everything is fine, but I was nearly non-functioning for those two weeks. I advocate some form of immediate callback instead of waiting two weeks for another appointment.



                              -----------------
                              *A few months ago, some of the seaweed packages said "good source of iodine" and included the iodine RDA in the Nutrition Facts: for example 1/4 teaspoon of kelp flakes = 1224% RDA. In the past six weeks or so, all that labeling disappeared. I don't know why. Now I don't know the exact iodine content.
                              5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X