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The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS"

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  • Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
    There it is. I don't know if you (Choco) had posted this link before or not (I'm pretty sure it was you) but if these are the types of studies you're relying on to get your information from you really need to be a little more sceptical about your own information. There's no way this guy "fasted" for 382 days.
    No. Wasn't me.

    I believe he only calorie-fasted. I vaguely remember it and I believe he was given vitamins, electrolytes and water. You don't need "food" to live as long as you have ample stored bodyfat, but you do need water and electrolytes so you don't dehydrate, and possibly some micronutrient supplementation.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
      "The results of the present review show that weight loss was
      significantly greater in the LC/HP (treatment) group after
      6 and 12 months compared with the LF/HC group."
      You just debunked yourself.

      One group ate low protein. The other group ate high protein. The low carb group was high protein, the high carb group was not.

      Therefore, this entire study is completely useless. Protein is the macro that matters and your study has no protein control.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Leida View Post
        Sihana, Cori, please, ignore if this is too intrusive, but is there a medical issue of some sort that makes you unable to chew or feel nauseated when you eat food? I have never heard about anyone being unable to eat food save for like a stomach flu, and throwing up during that time, but just normal food? I sometimes feel nauseated at the smell of butter or if I eat more than a teaspoon of coconut oil at a time, or if I eat greasy meal (like roasted chicken with fat or pork fat) so your experience is exactly the opposite?
        Not too intrusive for me.
        I have a problem with my intracranial pressure, it gets WAY too high and makes me very sick(extreme headaches, vision problems, speech impairment, problems with balance, etc.). I have to take a medication to keep it somewhat under control to prevent damage and that also play a part in the severe lack of appetite.
        All of that means that I also cannot move much, so maybe eating so low cal isn't the worst thing ever right now... I lose weight very slowly even as calorically restricted as I am for a taller woman, but I'm well aware that some of it is bound to be muscle.

        I'm currently awaiting scheduling for a shunt surgery (in my head).
        Hopefully after recovery I'll be sorted out enough to move more.
        I miss doing so many things... I used to be pretty active. Kayaking and such regularly.

        Most of my actual meals are not fatty. But the issue is that I only eat once a day... a lot of steamed vegetables and broiled or grilled chicken and pork loin (leaner pork). Occasional beef. I add a tablespoon of butter to melt in the veggies to keep calories up a bit.
        I just can't eat much food.
        Sometimes the morning coffee takes and hour or so to drink.
        For a while, before I was adding cream and butter and wasn't paying any attention to calories at all, I was drastically under-eating many days... like 500-750 cal/day. I was very tired, sleeping way too much, and not losing weight at all.
        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          You just debunked yourself.

          One group ate low protein. The other group ate high protein. The low carb group was high protein, the high carb group was not.

          Therefore, this entire study is completely useless. Protein is the macro that matters and your study has no protein control.
          That was a review of 15 studies not one study... some of them did indeed have set macros.
          But go on believing whatever you like.
          To say that protein is the only macro that matters is just silly and you know it.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • I did the bulletproof coffee as part of IF. However the butter actually makes me hungrier around 10-10:30 opposed to pure coconut oil (2 tbps) which can hold me until 11-11:30. Theres no way i could make it until 12-2 PM unless i put as much as Dave Asprey does which is 7 tbps butter and 4 tbps coconut oil. Thats just sick lol.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by impala454 View Post
              The best advice is to try something new, and if that doesn't work for you, keep trying new things until you do find something that works for you. That will almost certainly be different for everyone.
              Thanks. That's exactly what this thread said.

              CICO is concrete. It's the methods of calculation that are wrong because they don't account for individual needs. Hence, experiment to find your TRUE TDEE instead of what some equation online says, or what Fitday says. Do this through consistency.

              If you would have read the thread instead of starting your own rant you would have realized this.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
                I don't think his parents gave him enough attention when he was a kid.
                I don't think your parents put you through an English comprehension class when you were a kid.

                I can play this game, too. If you don't have anything sensible to say, you may as well not say anything at all. Didn't your parents teach you that lesson?

                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                  That was a review of 15 studies not one study... some of them did indeed have set macros.
                  But go on believing whatever you like.
                  You quoted one small paragraph showing an outcome. That's what I read. I don't want to see a biased interpretation of 15 studies where some author cherrypicks information to suit their agenda. You're not going to find a study where protein is held constant that shows low carb has an advantage over low fat or isocaloric. You didn't provide that above.

                  Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                  To say that protein is the only macro that matters is just silly and you know it.
                  Fat and carbohydrate are energy macronutrients. Protein is not. That is why it is the only macro that matters. Your body doesn't care if you give it fat or carbs to run on as long as it's a healthy source with essential nutrition. Energy = energy.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    I don't think your parents put you through an English comprehension class when you were a kid.

                    I can play this game, too. If you don't have anything sensible to say, you may as well not say anything at all. Didn't your parents teach you that lesson?

                    Said Chaco?
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                      Said Chaco?
                      Who?

                      It's sort of sad that what should and could be a very informative and educational discussion has turned into personal attacks.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        I don't think your parents put you through an English comprehension class when you were a kid.

                        I can play this game, too. If you don't have anything sensible to say, you may as well not say anything at all. Didn't your parents teach you that lesson?

                        Actually you're right. I shouldn't have posted that as it lowers the level and I understand that most people here are trying to learn. Besides, it was just too damn easy. For that I apologize to everyone.
                        Last edited by Iron Will; 08-02-2012, 11:14 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
                          Actually you're right. I shouldn't have posted that as it lowers the level and I understand that most people here are trying to learn. Besides, it was just too damn easy. For that I apologize to everyone.
                          I agree... but it comes down to Choco (sorry for the Chaco earlier) insisting that his way is the only way.
                          As he has done so many times before.
                          He nit picked one summative quote I used...
                          And dismisses the value of fat in the diet despite the fact that unlike carbs, it is really very necessary for health.
                          I don't advocate VLC... though I sometimes eat that way out of necessity for my own issues of not being able to handle volume.
                          But to dismiss all the research that indicates that LC helps people lose more weight, and stick to diets longer, just because that isn't how you prefer to do it personally is just ridiculous.
                          Not every person is the same.
                          Different things work better for different people.

                          Just saying NOPE you're wrong "only protein is important" and "fat is equal to sugar" doesn't help anyone in the long run.
                          Helping them under stand how EACH of the mechanisms, Protein/Fat/Carbohydrate, may affect their diet and appetite OTOH would be helpful.
                          But that's not what Choco ever seems to be interested in.
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                            I agree... but it comes down to Choco (sorry for the Chaco earlier) insisting that his way is the only way.
                            Where did I insist my way is the only way? This entire thread is about personal experimentation - not relying on some TDEE number an equation gives you on a website. You're so hellbent on tearing me down you're not reading the context of anything I'm writing. Sit back, relax and take your emotions out of the equation. This is what was said:

                            1.) In order to lose weight, you must burn more calories than you consume.
                            2.) CICO is perfect, but the methods of calculating CI and CO are not. You may not fit into the paradigm.
                            3.) Create consistent habits and find a level of food restriction that allows you to drop the weight sustainably.
                            4.) Focus on eating real, whole, unprocessed foods to support your metabolism as best as possible while providing proper nutrition while on a deficit. Don't focus on snake oil sales tactics like cold thermogenesis or drinking sticks of butter.

                            What, exactly, do you disagree with? And how is this "my way" when it's you specifically tailoring a plan for yourself?

                            And don't get mad at me because I dismissed your study. I specifically mentioned that the study must hold protein constant. You failed to provide that. I asked you for an apple and you gave me an orange, yet you're blaming me. The study was not controlled, therefore it's not worth reading since it proves nothing.
                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-02-2012, 12:04 PM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                            Comment


                            • Thank you both, Sihana, Cori, for answering my questions and sharing your experiences. Cori, I hope you will feel notable improvement!

                              Sihana, I had trained fasted before, but I find that I train the best non-fasted now. I noticed that trained famished really screwed up my performance. But I react very differently than you to fat. The 30 g carb + 15 g protein from UD was the best combos I have found. The 50 cals of whey (i.e. pure protein) a-la LG did not work for me.
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                              Comment


                              • I still say drinking 400 cal of grass fed butter in coffee makes a great fast breakfast that keeps my hunger at bay for hours. But that is how i treat it... meal replacement

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