Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • If calories matter than eat 1500 calories of sugar every day. This sounds crazy, but if we are just talking fuel for the body this should work - right? Maybe Primal/Paleo actually workes because its not all about calories and maybe about nutritional density, regulating blood sugar, hormone balance, and low inflammation markers???

    Did anyone ever think you lose weight, fix yourself, and are able to eat "less calories" because your body has lost weight, has fixed itself, and is nutritionally balanced?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      That is not true. There is absolutely, positively no metabolic advantage to a low-carb diet. The only reason why low-carbers think this is because fat and protein keeps you fuller longer, so they aren't snacking and naturally eating a whole lot less calories. In every single controlled study ever done where meals were prepared for the people, low-carbers lost the exact same weight as the other groups. Example:

      Ketogenic Low-Carbohydrate Diets have no Metabolic Advantage over Nonketogenic Low-carbohydrate diets | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

      If you are having better success eating low-carb, it's solely because it better controls your hunger and keeps your hand out of the snack drawer. The "grain pushers" do not admit this because it's not true. You made that up.
      This is absolutely not true. There are many studies that show there is a metabolic advantage to a low carb diet. I even sent you some references to read but you chose not to. Even if you want to play the game of simantics arguing total weight vs fat/muscle gained/lost your comment is still completely not true. And I don't even push a low carb diet (ketogenic)!
      Last edited by Iron Will; 08-02-2012, 08:34 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Iron Will View Post
        This is absolutely not true. There are many studies that show there is a metabolic advantage to a low carb diet. I even sent you some references to read but you chose not to. Even if you want to play the game of simantics arguing total weight vs fat/muscle gained/lost your comment is still completely not true. And I don't even push a low carb diet!
        No there aren't. There are zero controlled studies where meals are pre-prepared and protein and calories are held constant. Please provide a single example. You will not, because they do not exist. The best you'll be able to refer to is poorly controlled, epidemiological junk studies like this one that was absolutely ripped to shreds as being yet another sensationalist scam:

        Finally, a Study that Proves a Low-Carb Metabolic Advantage? Yeah, Right… | AnthonyColpo

        Any study that even suggests that low-carbohydrate diets have a metabolic advantage have wild fluctuations in protein intake or do not control calories and have the patients eat freely or track on their own. In other words, no science was done as there was no control.
        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-02-2012, 08:07 AM.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          Don't attack me for this.... but have you considered Lipo? I feel like - you weigh 116.... you can't spot lose fat on your thighs and tummy.

          I mean, I have a lot to lose, but if I was at a healthy weight and struggling to get the last fat off, I'd consider just getting it sucked out, lol. I hate to say it, but your body is probably just going to hang onto that fat until it has no choice. Women weren't meant to be lean, and mother nature can be a bitch about fat distribution (I have freakishly flabby arms- seriously- nice hourglass, I'll take the powerful legs that mean big thighs but I have seen slimmer arms on 300lb women and it ain't muscle.
          I have definitely considered this years back but, now that I've truely been dedicated to doing really good leg work outs the last 6 mnths, I can actually see significant reduction in size of fat deposits. Especially in the horrbile cellulite I have on my thighs. I believe proper, consitent exercise in targeting those areas does work. It just takes a lot of time and patience. Many people give up with in a couple of months. For me, it must have just been the right time. I was sick and tired of how I looked and it was time to do something about it. I have a lot of motivation right now. This motivation was soooo not there a year ago. That's for sure.

          Now for my tummy, time will tell. That one is being REALLY stubborn.

          Comment


          • It will never be as good as with surgery, I think. My other concern is that the fat re-accumulates after lipo.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              No there aren't. There are zero controlled studies where meals are pre-prepared and protein and calories are held constant. Please provide a single example. You will not, because they do not exist. The best you'll be able to refer to is poorly controlled, epidemiological junk studies like this one that was absolutely ripped to shreds as being yet another sensationalist scam:

              Finally, a Study that Proves a Low-Carb Metabolic Advantage? Yeah, Right… | AnthonyColpo

              Any study that even suggests that low-carbohydrate diets have a metabolic advantage have wild fluctuations in protein intake or do not control calories and have the patients eat freely or track on their own. In other words, no science was done as there was no control.
              Didn't you sent me a link to a study about a guy back in the 50's that did a 180 day fast at one point? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

              Comment


              • 180 day fast? what the hell does that accomplish... lol.

                Comment


                • 382 days to be exact.

                  here is the case study.

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00315-0056.pdf

                  Comment


                  • Would everyone who puts 400 calories of butter in their coffee please raise your hands?

                    Sometimes I think there's still a lot of fat phobia around here because the criticism is always around fat and not around protein or carbohydrates. From what I understand, if there even is a person that puts 400 calories of butter in their coffee (and I don't think there is a single person on this web site who does), isn't the point of doing that that you then feel no need to eat until dinner time? Wouldn't that actually put you ahead of the game in the CICO universe, especially compared to someone eating 600 calories of chicken and broccoli?

                    (Cue the lecture about empty calories. Funny how quality can be dismissed and invoked as needed.)
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                    Comment


                    • I did it once. I did not put it in my coffee, but I ate 1/3 cup of coconut butter between 4 am and 4 pm & had certain amounts of macadamia nuts, trying to adhere to the fat fast and eat 600 calories during that phase of the day to finish up with 400 cals supper consisting of tuna and more coconut oil. I can't recall her name atm, but she was huge on fat fasts (then she decided sugar was the answer), you must remember her, no? SHe said she could go on 1000 cals of pure fats (butter) and sing happily. And be size something incredibly small.

                      Anyway, I can testify that this neither put me ahead, no robbed me of the desire to eat. At 4 pm I was ready to kill for a stick of celery. I am not a celery fan either....
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by WeldingHank View Post
                        382 days to be exact.

                        here is the case study.

                        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00315-0056.pdf
                        There it is. I don't know if you (Choco) had posted this link before or not (I'm pretty sure it was you) but if these are the types of studies you're relying on to get your information from you really need to be a little more sceptical about your own information. There's no way this guy "fasted" for 382 days.

                        Comment


                        • Bulletproof coffee drinker here. Actually i did 2 tbps butter and 2 tbps coconut oil so yeah a 500 calorie cup of coffee. I also lost weight while drinking this and eating 2-3 other meals during the day. I dont understand the point. Butter is good for you, so is coffee, lol.

                          Comment


                          • Brehm BJ, et al. A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003;88:1617–1623.
                            A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women
                            Volek JS, et al. Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women. Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:13.
                            Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women
                            All of the studies above note LC vs LF with equal caloric restriction for both diets.

                            Also... studies that simply pit LC with LCal/LF without specific caloric restriction noted, or no caloric restriction for LC... LC wins.
                            Samaha FF, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity. N Engl J Med 2003;348:2074–81.
                            MMS: Error
                            Sondike SB, et al. Effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor in overweight adolescents. J Pediatr. 2003 Mar;142(3):253–8.
                            Elsevier
                            Aude YW, et al. The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated Fat. A Randomized Trial. Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:2141–2146.
                            JAMA Network | Archives of Internal Medicine | The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated FatA Randomized Trial
                            Yancy WS Jr, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet versus a Low-Fat Diet To Treat Obesity and Hyperlipidemia. A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2004;140:769–777.
                            A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a l... [Ann Intern Med. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
                            Shai I, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med 2008;359(3);229–41.
                            MMS: Error
                            Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.
                            Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus
                            Summer SS, et al. Adiponectin Changes in Relation to the Macronutrient Composition of a Weight-Loss Diet. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Mar 31. [Epub ahead of print]
                            http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v1...by201160a.html
                            Daly ME, et al. Short-term effects of severe dietary carbohydrate-restriction advice in Type 2 diabetes–a randomized controlled trial. Diabet Med. 2006 Jan;23(1):15–20.
                            Short-term effects of severe dietary carbohydrate-restriction advice in Type*2 diabetes—a randomized controlled trial - Daly - 2005 - Diabetic Medicine - Wiley Online Library
                            Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.
                            Dyson PA, et al. A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective in reducing body weight than healthy eating in both diabetic and non-diabetic subjects. Diabet Med. 2007 Dec;24(12):1430-5.
                            A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective in redu... [Diabet Med. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
                            Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus

                            One review of about 15 studies stated...
                            Discussion
                            "The results of the present review show that weight loss was
                            significantly greater in the LC/HP (treatment) group after
                            6 and 12 months compared with the LF/HC group."
                            *There was also noted improvement in blood lipids and other health markers (BP etc.)

                            Debunk all you like. *shrug*
                            Regardless of some mysterious 'metabolic advantage', or not, its easy to see that LC diets to tend to promote weight loss over and above LCal/LF diets over time.
                            This important to people who need to lose weight whether you like it or not.
                            And yes, macro inputs matter. Fat =/= sugar.
                            All calories being equal... LC or MC (still vastly lower than SAD) wins.

                            If macros weren't important I wouldn't be able to look up about 1000 references to macro ratios posted by Chaco himself I would think.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • I drank a can of coconut milk once. What is that, 700 or 1400 calories. Oh my god I was so sick all day long. I never tried that again. I think at most I've put 2 tablespoons of butter in my coffee. It seems the butter in coffee thing really triggers some kind of response in fat-phobic and low-carb phobic people, a response not unlike what we were all trained to think when the whole low-fat thing came out around 1980, which I remember clearly, being old enough to remember such things.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                                I'm 5'4. See, the thing is that on paper, 125 sounds pretty awesome, and for someone with your type of body, it probably is. However, I am pear-shaped, and the excess fat isn't where it should be; it's ALL in my stomach and thighs. So if you saw me in a bathing suit, even though I'm now around 116, I actually seem to be something more like 135-140 because of the disproportiate way the fat is arranged. If i had something that was close to a flat stomach, the scale could say 150 and I'd be fine with it, those numbers don't mean anything.
                                ah okay.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X