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The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS"

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  • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
    I hit a set point and stayed there for half a year. I could eat as much as I wanted and not gain. I could eat less and not lose. I think set points throw a wrench into any neat and tidy theories about calories in or out.
    I actually think that CICO is still true. In your case the "calories out" was just changed all the time depending on how much you ate for some reason I think.

    Overall i just think CICO is a 100% correct always but CO can change depending on what you eat. For example you could say CICO is incorrect because protein has a thermogenic effect but this thermogenic effect is the same as CO. So the theory remains.
    well then

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      @Stackingplates' long rant.

      Oh goodness, not the Okinawans. Again. OK. One more time just in case Choco hasn't beat this point home often enough. Paleo does not necessarily equal low carb. There is a wide range of healthy carb levels. Based on your activity level, you may very well have been eating too little carbs *for you*. So your workouts were not great and you chucked the whole thing instead of making it work. And you have this weird need to ridicule those of us who do make it work.

      About clean eating, you showed the flaw in the study yourself. It was not long term. So, you like your pizza and ice cream. If you are young and super active, it won't hurt you once in a while. Enjoy those treats on a regular basis, not so much. I would like to see how you look at age 45. 'Nuff said.
      You and I are agreeing way too much way too often there days and it's starting to concern me

      Seriously, there are so many food choices out there I'm not sure why anyone would NEED grain flour. How someone can't get their carb requirement out of white rice, potatoes and bananas boggles my mind. Take 6 bananas and broil them in the oven. Cover them with raw honey or maple syrup. Then chase it with 2 lbs of sweet potato fries. All primal, and tons of sugar and starch. If that can't fuel a deadlift session may God have mercy upon your soul.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • That's one lady in how many? 90% of people increase their calories and roll right back to their starting weight or above, according to statistics.

        My personal no dieting experiment continues. Cleaned up today, no intake of anything evil, but berries off the bush in the yard. Deadlifting session + support (intense, 1 hr long), walking and berry picking. No excessive fullness. Added another 1 lb of weight, to the total of 126.6, up 5.6 lbs since last Friday.
        Last edited by Leida; 08-01-2012, 09:52 AM.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by charliemathers View Post
          Ice cream is highly nutritious as long as you get some that doesnt have all the yucky fillers they like to use. It has tons of sugar which is good for you and feeds the body the energy is truly needs. It even has natural progesterone in it, calcium, all kinds of goodies. Certain candies are really good for you as long as they use real sugar and not HFCS. Especially if its something like gummy bears that also have gelatin in it.
          I have had great luck with ice cream. However, I make good stuff.

          Organic, grassfed milk or coconut milk
          Whole sugar (I prefer coconut sugar) blended with stevia
          Pure cream, no additives.
          Egg yolks.
          Fruits, nuts, dark chocolate, quality liquor.
          Lots of pure unflavored gelatin as a thickener.

          That is highly nutritious ice cream. It's not something I'd make a dietary staple, but it's far from empty calories.

          That being said, stay away from Ben & Jerry's and the majority of crap on the shelf. There are very few good ice creams on the shelves, save for a few gems like Haagen Dazs Five. The best ice cream is always the ice cream you make at home. And it tastes better than ANY storebought ice cream.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            You're marrying someone who's half fish?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              You and I are agreeing way too much way too often there days and it's starting to concern me

              Seriously, there are so many food choices out there I'm not sure why anyone would NEED grain flour. How someone can't get their carb requirement out of white rice, potatoes and bananas boggles my mind. Take 6 bananas and broil them in the oven. Cover them with raw honey or maple syrup. Then chase it with 2 lbs of sweet potato fries. All primal, and tons of sugar and starch. If that can't fuel a deadlift session may God have mercy upon your soul.
              Heh... I would love to see the squat workout needed AND see it performed to justify that many carbs lol it would be a sight to behold

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

                I am 26. I am healthy. I don't have food sensitivities. I ate grains every day without digestive stress or developing any kind of disease. Yes, my skin is clearer and my allergies have improved significantly since adopting primal-style eating, but the simple fact is I can get back on bread tomorrow and not see any real changes in body composition or watch health degrade much. I've never had issues with food, overeating, binging, weight management, etc. One may say it'll be less stressful to me to add all foods back in since I won't pay such close attention to things other people make/what's on the menu at restaurants.

                But I'm doing this for preventative health. StackingPlates may not have issues with grains. Yet. It typically takes people into their 40's and 50's to start falling apart from diet. Joints start to ache, you can't run as fast as you used to, your weight starts to creep up on you despite eating the same diet, you can't maintain your exercise schedule because of these things, you start developing new allergies/skin conditions, etc. This is longterm build-up of lectins in foods, and effects from decades of phytate slowly robbing nutrients from your skeletal and connective tissues. It takes longer than 25 years for this to happen to most of us. It takes 40-50.

                And then we hit our 60's. The chronic inflammation from these mild toxins translates into arterial disease. Plenty of seemingly active/healthy people drop dead every day from diseases of society. Being "fit" on the outside doesn't mean a damn thing about being healthy on the inside. I'm doing this because I want to go quietly in my sleep, not bedridden for a slow 6 month decline with an IV drip in my arm, dying of cancer or requiring open heart surgery. No thanks. All the exercise in the world won't prevent that stuff. That's diet and environmental conditions. I want quality of life. All the heavy lifting I do and all the protein I consume is rough on my body. I know this, and it may take a few years off my life. But I'd rather live 80 healthy, active years with no chronic disease than drag on into my 90's taking pills every day on some starvation diet unable to move off the couch because my joints are killing me.
                Copy-Paste-Print-Hang on the fridge

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Glockin Grok View Post
                  Heh... I would love to see the squat workout needed AND see it performed to justify that many carbs lol it would be a sight to behold
                  If you carb cycle in a cyclical ketogenic diet, that won't put a dent in what you need.

                  I stand before you a measly 145 lbs and 5'7". When I did UD2, which was a hardcore CKD-style diet (<50g of carbs 4 days straight) paired with massive glycogen depleting weight work (think 6x15 benchpresses at only 110 lbs, burns like a BITCH the last two sets, but on every muscle group in your body...twice), you wind up completely depleted. My Friday would be 1,000g of carbohydrate. My Saturday would be 300g of carbohydrate. My Sunday would be 150g of carbohydrate. Then <50g for M-Th (back to Hell). I dropped about 12 lbs in 6 weeks, but all my lifts went up.

                  As it stands now, I'm much more moderated in my approach. I just eat around 200-250g of carbs after a workout (estimated). That's about 2-3 lbs of sweet potatoes and I'm a small guy. A bigger guy could easily get away with that on a semi-daily basis. And I only do 45-60 minute workouts.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • There is something else I would like to put out there for the group.

                    Fact cico has been debunked
                    fact calories do matter at a point particularly as you get closer to your goal
                    fact you cannot ignore the laws of thermodynamics
                    fact the human body is far from a closed system

                    So what can we conclude... there is more going on but you can definitely eat too much fuel. What i want to through out there is perhaps a kilocalorie is a poor measure of fuel for the human body. Also everyone is different and feel free to experiment and see what happens but dont take anyones extreme claims as the only truth.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Glockin Grok View Post
                      There is something else I would like to put out there for the group.

                      Fact cico has been debunked
                      fact calories do matter at a point particularly as you get closer to your goal
                      fact you cannot ignore the laws of thermodynamics
                      fact the human body is far from a closed system

                      So what can we conclude... there is more going on but you can definitely eat too much fuel. What i want to through out there is perhaps a kilocalorie is a poor measure of fuel for the human body. Also everyone is different and feel free to experiment and see what happens but dont take anyones extreme claims as the only truth.
                      Your statements are contradictory.

                      CICO is absolute regarding weight loss. You cannot lose weight without a caloric deficit. Period.
                      Calorie calculators showing TDEE are terribly inaccurate and don't apply to all.
                      Our methods of determining caloric content of foods are inaccurate.
                      Some people have severe metabolic issues causing them to be huge statistical outliers regarding TDEE.

                      In short:

                      CICO = perfect.
                      Methods of calculating CICO = horribly flawed.

                      The theory is perfect, but we lack the tools to fully understand it. That is why we must self-experiment. We need to find our individual maintenance calories for those that the theory seems not to apply to. The only way to do this is to log precisely every bite of food into your mouth and eat the exact same things over and over until you find the appropriate level. Neurotic, yes, but it's the only way to apply accurate science.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                      Comment


                      • 90% failure rate is the number quoted for diet failure, i.e. how many people overall regain weight after losing it. The mechanics is very simple. They restrict calories, they lose weight. It gets hard, they start eating more food, they regain.

                        yeah, I was bulking up at 1800-2200 cals a day and gained 12 lbs in two months. No leveling off occurred. In fact, no leveling off ever occurred for me after I've lost my pg weight. It was 3 years ago. I have to continue to restrict calories and live in a trying to lose weight mode and experience hard core hunger to just maintaining. Every time it becomes unbearable, I gain some (most I gained was 12 lbs in those two months. Took 6+ month and 6 weeks of UD to take it off). Is that long-term enough for you?

                        Do you think people would chose to suffer and restrict IF they could do it the other way by eating more? Do you think we haven't read those articles, and haven't TRIED? Those anecdotal cases of women ho started eating more and prospered are out there, but I have never met anyone in two or three communities for whom it actually worked. Look at Paula's story - she was cutting and cutting calories DOWN.

                        And Stacy's experience - I hoped so much that it will o-la-la gonna happen to me! OMG, I willjust eat my fill of good foods, lift heavy and YUP-YUP! I will add muscle and lose fat!!!! Nope. Never happened. Added bunch of fat, lifts not up. Stacy I am not.

                        If you are ready and willing to take months of weight gain, look like crap after looking Okay, not fit in your clothes, hoping that miracles are gonna happen for you and you gonna transform 8 months down the road... good luck! In my experience, miracles ain't gonna happen. In all likelihood, one will just get fatter and fatter and fatter. It's only genetically programmed after all.

                        The only way is to get the low, and hold on to it for dear life kicking one's ass every time pounds start coming up again, if you are capable off. Never-ever let more than 1 months of steady gains with no drops, 'cause that's the road back to Square 1. Well, unless you decided that's that it, you want to descend into fat life for good. I thought i did, but size 8 pants feeling too tight is making me reconsider right now (and that's after picking up a pair of comfy Size 2 last Saturday for god's sake). That, and that fact that letting my guard down and being a fool will now send me on a romantic vacation with my husband looking like a pregnant sow, when I could have looked much better if I did not give up. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.
                        Last edited by Leida; 08-01-2012, 10:42 AM.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                        Comment


                        • I bet our squat workout needs a pretty heavy loading of carbs. Its my biggest carb up of my 4 "backloads". Its anywhere from 50-65% of your 1 rep GEARED max plus either 200 lbs of chain or 225 pounds of band tension. Then you do 8 sets of 2 reps as explosive as possible, with minimum rest time. We sometimes will go 70-75% on the last 2 sets to make it even more brutal. After that it will be speed deadlifts at around 50% of your max plus for 6 singles, 400-700 pound reverse hyperextensions, HEAVY abdominal training, and sometimes some hamstrings. This is all done under an hour. The bar weights vary from 245 to 605 pounds, myself being around 425-515.

                          If i were to step my game up, which i should, i would eat as Choco said with some bananas, sweet potatoes, and maybe a little rice. Sometimes its just easier to have fruitty pebbles or a few plain donuts.
                          Last edited by stumprrp; 08-01-2012, 10:25 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            I have had great luck with ice cream. However, I make good stuff.

                            Organic, grassfed milk or coconut milk
                            Whole sugar (I prefer coconut sugar) blended with stevia
                            Pure cream, no additives.
                            Egg yolks.
                            Fruits, nuts, dark chocolate, quality liquor.
                            Lots of pure unflavored gelatin as a thickener.

                            That is highly nutritious ice cream. It's not something I'd make a dietary staple, but it's far from empty calories.

                            That being said, stay away from Ben & Jerry's and the majority of crap on the shelf. There are very few good ice creams on the shelves, save for a few gems like Haagen Dazs Five. The best ice cream is always the ice cream you make at home. And it tastes better than ANY storebought ice cream.
                            I'm planning to invest in an ice cream maker soon, but in the mean time I'll try out the Haggen-Dazs 5. Judging by the amount of sugar per serving I'm guessing it will be a little sweeter than I like (never have been a big sweet fan), but the ingredient list looks great!
                            LastBottleWines

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              Your statements are contradictory.

                              CICO is absolute regarding weight loss. You cannot lose weight without a caloric deficit. Period.
                              Calorie calculators showing TDEE are terribly inaccurate and don't apply to all.
                              Our methods of determining caloric content of foods are inaccurate.
                              Some people have severe metabolic issues causing them to be huge statistical outliers regarding TDEE.

                              In short:

                              CICO = perfect.
                              Methods of calculating CICO = horribly flawed.

                              The theory is perfect, but we lack the tools to fully understand it. That is why we must self-experiment. We need to find our individual maintenance calories for those that the theory seems not to apply to. The only way to do this is to log precisely every bite of food into your mouth and eat the exact same things over and over until you find the appropriate level. Neurotic, yes, but it's the only way to apply accurate science.
                              Well isn't in a round about way what i was saying the the "calorie" may be a poor measure of human fuel? I never claimed it was not due to errors from calculation the calories of food or energy expenditure.

                              But I do agree 100% you must operate in an energy deficit. I am just saying there may be more to it then counting calories that is all

                              Comment


                              • I think fitting in with Leida's first statement above is that just about everyone who has yoyo dieted knows how to lose weight. We don't know how to keep it off. We don't plan for the after.

                                Now it's true that the planet can defecate all over your life for an extended period and make everything in your life suffer, but barring that, for me at least, all too often in the past, I got to my right weight then just threw my good habits out the window. Maybe slowly at first, but by the time I was fat again, pretty much everything was different and bad.
                                "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                                B*tch-lite

                                Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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