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The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS"

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  • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
    That statement is absolutely completely ridiculously FALSE.
    Some people say they still overeat with primal, but I say they're not doing it right. Eat a large meal of high-fat animal protein with low-fiber veggies, and you will struggle to finish it. If you're not struggling to finish a meal then it probably doesn't have enough fat.

    I honestly believe that if someone like me, who got obese for emotional/psychological reasons, can stick to this woe and lose weight with it, then probably most people can. The physiological changes have been so dramatic, the sugar addiction so completely kicked in the teeth, this is something I never could have done by simply reducing calories and having a strong willpower. I haven't much needed to worry about willpower for a while. Changing macronutrient ratios is what worked for me, so you cannot convince me that a carb calorie is the same as a fat calorie. It might be the same thing in the lab, but in my belly it's not remotely the same.
    Last edited by CaveWeirdo; 07-28-2012, 01:05 AM.
    Start weight: 238 lbs (March 2012)
    Current weight: 205 lbs (July 2012)
    Loss so far: 33 lbs!!!
    WOE: Primal + IF
    Movements: Hiking, sprinting.
    Goal: to see my abs some time in 2013!

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    • Originally posted by CaveWeirdo View Post
      Eat a large meal of high-fat animal protein with low-fiber veggies, and you will struggle to finish it.
      .
      Really, I won't. I'll just put on weight.

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      • I have found an exercise program that helps heal a lot of the hormonal imbalances and other weight loss impediments. It is based on physical therapy and correct spine and body alignment. It improves neuro-kinetic flow. At first you may gain a few pounds as you build more spinal muscle density but you lose inches, regardless. In a month, I have lost my typical pound a week, but I have lost over 13" from upper arms, waist, hips, calves, abdomen etc. I really like the science behind this program and the fact that it is safe for people of all ages and fitness levels. Teresa Tapp is the woman who developed the system and her website is T-Tapp.com.

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        • Just to add more evidence to my 'You have to find what works for you' argument, and that everyone is differnt in the way they respond to food, excersie, stress, chocolate cake etc here is a BBC documentary from a few years ago, called 'Why are thin People not fat'.

          It's been a while since I watched it. But IIRC the conclusion was some poeple are naturally skinny and cannot put on weight easliy no matter how hard they try, one guy even gained muscle by over-eating, and a lot of them couldn't even get the calories down, no matter what they ate, they bodies just rejected the food.

          So I extrapolate that if some people can't get fat, others will gain weight if they so much look ate doughnut, most of us will be somewhere between on the scale. Just like some of us get arms like tree-truncks from a few pull-ups and others work like manics and are still not bulking up fast.

          You know all those pictures of Adam and Eve where they have belly button? Think about it..................... take as long as you need........................

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          • Well I believe that you do your best to monitor your food, eat primal and you weigh, track your food etc. It might just be something that hasn't been discovered yet that is causing you not to lose. I am friends with a few female "tortured" and "intense" artists types who ONLY subsist on vegetables (A LOT of veggies) and they are beyond ridiculously (although they don't look bad) skinny, they have really great skin and shiny healthy hair so i don't think they are lacking vitamins....maybe they take multivits...who knows...anyway my point was I just can't believe that eating only vegetable will make anyone fat.
            I was a vegan for a while and a long time vegetarian. Still fat.

            I have lost 30lbs eating primal, and feel great. However I have stalled. HIndsight is 20/20 but I feel like my issue has always been a gluten/wheat issue and basically years spent starving myself in cycles have messed stuff up. I think the first 30 lbs was my body healing from the wheat as it wasn't just weight loss but anxiety, back pain, skin clearing up, less acid reflux. I don't think it had anything to do with calorie restriction as I was eating pretty much the same number of calories.

            I'm exploring the nightshade issue- when I was losing, they were not in my diet, but my stall kind of came during summer when tomatoes are everywhere. I don't think the calories from tomatoes add fat, but who knows, maybe I retain water or fat cells to protect me from them (I get bad reflux from tomatoes, eggplant etc.).

            I won't drop my calories lower- I feel weak and miserable and can't "find the mix" that makes me function. I can't imagine I feel like shit for any reason but low calorie count- on my day to day, I eat cleaner now than when I was losing with far fewer cheats and a lower calorie count.

            There is so much to weight loss for some people..... I just hate that every bit of advice by CW is "will power" and "eat less". I'm glad there are some resources that consider some other issues.

            I will say, when I came here and saw people not losing I was all "smug" and "oh they need to watch calories", "this is easy". Well, it's not. It's easy to get rid of the junk and eat healthy foods. It's hard to "eat less" if that is what you need to do. I don't crave sweets or junk anymore. I don't want a potato. I don't want dark chocolate, wine or butter coffee. I just you know, want to be able to eat a piece of fruit daily and have a meal that fuels me for a while and be able to lose weight.

            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              And, ironically on my calorie counting thread, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29501.html, it was Choco who was adamantly arguing that calorie counting was bogus and that all I needed to do was to eat copious amounts of sweet potatoes on alternate Tuesdays and Thursdays or some such schedule and the extra weight would melt off.

              It's interesting to watch how his thinking changes.

              The point of what I said in my MDA Friday success story post was that it is not a question of CICO or GCBC. You don't have to pick one or the other. It's both. The quality of the calories you eat make it easier to restrict the quantity without white knuckled hunger.


              This! Perfectly explained in a sentence!

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              • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                I will say, when I came here and saw people not losing I was all "smug" and "oh they need to watch calories", "this is easy". Well, it's not. It's easy to get rid of the junk and eat healthy foods. It's hard to "eat less" if that is what you need to do. I don't crave sweets or junk anymore. I don't want a potato. I don't want dark chocolate, wine or butter coffee. I just you know, want to be able to eat a piece of fruit daily and have a meal that fuels me for a while and be able to lose weight.
                Exactly. And I really hate the smug people who don't get that.
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • Really, I won't. I'll just put on weight.
                  +1 I made a perfectly primal roasted veggies (turnips, carrots, celery, onions, a bit of potatoes) with chicken innards (hearts gizzards) in leftover roasted chicken drippings with a touch of cheese and I had to stop myself from eating and eating it. It was greasy from the drippings, and I avoided eating potatoes... and I was a pound heavier this morning than yesterday morning because I over-ate so badly. No more roast veggies with chicken entrails for me.

                  I am absolutely the same with salmon and chicken, I can probably eat half of the whole roast chicken on my own if I don't stop myself.

                  And whenever I broil ribs, the 3-4 oz serving that is enough calorically for my half a day intake is like an appetizer! Heck, I can eat a pound of browned ground beef easily enough too or six eggs in a sitting.

                  Primal, fatty, no dice.

                  Now, i just had a smoothie with like a cup of cranberries and mixed currants and 2 scoops of whey and I am so stuffed I truly can't look at food.

                  Fat does not satiate some people.
                  Last edited by Leida; 07-28-2012, 10:20 AM.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • I'll tell you what you can't overeat on: pemmican. The real stuff, not the US Wellness stuff. Beef tallow and dried beef. It tastes horrible. It's very hard to choke down. But it provides long-lasting energy and satiety for climbing mountains.
                    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                    • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                      I'll tell you what you can't overeat on: pemmican. The real stuff, not the US Wellness stuff. Beef tallow and dried beef. It tastes horrible. It's very hard to choke down. But it provides long-lasting energy and satiety for climbing mountains.
                      lol I always wondered about real pemmican...that gross eh?

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                      • Wow Xlanochka... I'm so glad you stopped by to educate all us ladies who have been doing this for a long time and are very aware of our cyclic fluctuations.

                        Pompous much?
                        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                        • Originally posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
                          lol I always wondered about real pemmican...that gross eh?
                          Yeah, like eating beef wax.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                            Yeah, like eating beef wax.
                            Pass!

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                            • Originally posted by xlanochka
                              I'm not trying to direct this reply to you, but I've been reading various threads across the forum, I've been seeing A LOT of posts just like this one. "No I can't eat as much fat as I want because I tried it for a week and it just makes me fatter! No ________ doesn't work for me because I tried it last month and I got fatter!" It's posts like this that makes me skeptical of some people's dedication and patience when it comes to certain weight loss methods. Fluctuations on the scale are not a direct indication of body fat loss or gain, nor is the scale a representation of your body composition. .............
                              I have to comment on this as well. I'm a man so I will never have any experience with what it's like to be a woman and what it's like to deal with monthly cycles or menopause. That being said, I have to agree with you xlanocka. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Time is the variable.

                              We have to think of our bodies as a compilation of previous occurences. For me, I've had 37 years of previous occurrence to trade with. For anyone to believe that they can change what has happened to their bodies over an entire lifetime with only a few weeks is sadly mistaken.

                              For someone who is 45 years old and has just changed to the Paleo stly of eating has 45 years of previous occurrence that needs to be fixed before they are going to be able to move forward with a healthy optimal hormonal balance. I'm not saying it's going to take another 45 years but it's definitely going to take years to get back to optimal.

                              This is why caloric deficit doesn't work. One must learn to regulate hormone levels with their food intake to achieve a healthy metabolism and body weight. I'll tell you why calorie deficit doesn't work. Lets use a 45 year old woman who has been eating 2000 calories of what she considers healthy foods. She has average activity but is currently 15 pounds overweight. She decides to lower her calories by 500 calories a week so she'll loose 1 pound a week for 15 weeks.

                              There are a couple of things that are going to happen here. First off, the most obvious, She's going to feel hungry more often. Secondly, her body will understand that it's in a time of lower nutrition so it's going to slow it's metabolism. The reason is so it doesn't need as many calories to preform life giving tasks. Notice I say life giving tasks, not general running to the store to pick up milk after driving the kids to soccer practice and making sure that husband doesn't burn the house down because it's his turn to cook dinner. The lower metabolism is also going to make her body want to sleep more because when the body is sleeping the amount of energy being used is very low.

                              That's just part of the story. She can't sleep more because she's still a mother, still a wife and still has a job so she continues to push her body at the same speed as before even on a caloric deficit so now she increases her stress levels which in turn raises the stress hormone cortisol. Cortisol causes the body to store body fat in the stomach area. In addition to the increased cortisol, the body is still believing that it's in a time of lower nutrition so on top of down regulating metabolism, it also begins to store fat while lowering muscle mass because it's too caloricly expensive to carry.

                              Evolutionarily women are more important than men. That's why women's bodies deregulate metabolism and store fat so much quicker than men. To survive and give life to the next generation. I think you're all pretty awesome myself! Even if the weight is lost, once the caloric deficit is restored the body gains more weight back because the metabolism has now been lowered and a new even lower caloric deficit is needed to loose the same 15 pounds that she has gained back. Sound familiar?

                              Its so important to firstly eat the proper macro ratios that we are evolutionarily meant to eat. High protein and fat with low carbohydrates. Secondly (and this begins with proper nutrition) is to make sure you eat for hormonal regulation. Eat foods that regulate insulin, balance estrogen and testosterone and lower cortisol.

                              Lastly when one is doing this I'll go back to my original point. Don't expect years of chronic dieting and calorie reduction to be fixed over night. Take time with your body it deserves it. After all, it's been dealing with what you've been doing to it for years.
                              Last edited by Iron Will; 07-28-2012, 04:34 PM.

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                              • Cals in/cals out vs. quality of calories is a false dichotomy. Quality of calories determines how miserable you're going to be when adhering to cals in/cals out.
                                “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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