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  • #31
    Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
    There was a little pissing. I did some of it myself.
    Well, the OP came in here with a bit of a pissy Primaler than thou attitude so it evens out.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Well, the OP came in here with a bit of a pissy Primaler than thou attitude so it evens out.
      Oh absolutely. I wasn't apologizing.

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      • #33
        Primal is not exactly paleo. Primal is whatever Mark Sisson says it is.
        Crohn's, doing SCD

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        • #34
          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
          Wasn't there some recent archeological evidence uncovered that showed Neanderthals or perhaps it was a pre-human ancestor, used fire for cooking? Humans were not the first advanced primates to use fire for cooking.
          Yes, there has been some such evidence. Then there is all the other ways to "cook" without fire, such as pulverizing, burying, etc.

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          • #35
            Paleo is the foundation for Primal, but Primal expands upon it to optimize diet and lifestyle to thrive in the modern world. There are myriad examples, but consider vegetable oils and dark chocolate. Neither is paleo, but Primal would ask us to apply critical thinking to analyze whether these items would be detrimental to diet, neutral, or possibly offer enhancements. Primal, then, is about optimizing the evolutionary basis for people in the modern world, and since optimization depends on the fact that individuals each have unique conditions (e.g., medical, genetic/epigenetic), responses (e.g., lactose tolerance), that means that Primal encourages the individual to tailor the general framework. There is no singular Primal lifestyle, but rather a sort of Primal tree. We each adapt our understanding of Primal to our n=1 experience.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jiigigaw View Post
              Yes, there has been some such evidence. Then there is all the other ways to "cook" without fire, such as pulverizing, burying, etc.
              Interesting point. Using acid to cook seafood (ceviche) and fermentation to break down foods and make certain nutrients more readily absorbable (e.g., sauerkraut) come to mind as well.

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              • #37
                It's part of every forum I've ever been involved with that deal with human activety in earlier-unrecorded or prehistoric times, that factions form having ultra purist ideas. Then there are other groups that take a more moderate approach. I was in a hand tool woodworking group once and there were similar discussions. Often these ended angrily. Even though all agreed on basic principles.

                Probably everybody has their own idea about what's "Primal" what's "Paleo" and what's "Ancestral" and whatever other terms may be floating about. I think problems come when two or more parties do not agree on the basic definitions, and then start to debate minor points.

                What has drawn me to the PB lifestyle as Mark Sisson outlines it, is that it is a practical way to live in the modern world, eating a diet following our understanding of "Paleo" principles.

                But debate is a good thing! Respect is primary to constructive debate.
                Height: 5' 10"
                Starting Weight: 292
                Starting Primal Weight: 275
                Current weight: 224
                Goal weight: 172
                Body Fat 30.5

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Nady View Post
                  I guess the bones in the (carbon dated) firepit are inconclusive~
                  Remember, when I say this, I am on your side. But no, bones in a firepit are not conclusive to anything other than "Hey there were some bones in this firepit." Could be that after gnawing on the raw meat bone Grok threw it in the fire to get rid of it, kind of like taking out the garbage. Just saying......
                  I Kettlebell therefore I am.

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                  • #39
                    our primate cousins spend hours and hours and hours each day... chewing. chewing raw vegetation. chimps, who will eat meat when they can get it, spend about 6 hours a day just chewing. The Way We Eat Now | Harvard Magazine May-Jun 2004

                    in contrast, humans spend only about an hour a day chewing.

                    The efficient caveman cook | Harvard Gazette

                    To answer the question of when cooking arose in human history, they tracked a physical characteristic likely tied to the advent of cooking and eating softer food molar size through the remains of 14 human ancestors.

                    Researchers confirmed earlier work, which showed that the drop in molar size that occurred in Homo erectus, in Neanderthals, and in Homo sapiens far outstripped what would be expected by comparing it with other evolutionary changes going in the body. The team found that Homo erectus and Neanderthals spent the same amount of time each day eating as do modern humans. That likely means cooking arose before Homo erectus evolved, 1.9 million years ago.
                    the time freed from chewing allowed our ancestors time for other pursuits, like hunting and society building.
                    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                    Ernest Hemingway

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                      our primate cousins spend hours and hours and hours each day... chewing. chewing raw vegetation. chimps, who will eat meat when they can get it, spend about 6 hours a day just chewing.

                      in contrast, humans spend only about an hour a day chewing.

                      the time freed from chewing allowed our ancestors time for other pursuits, like hunting and society building.
                      I suspect this is why my old Dentine habit made me so un-civilized. I just didn't have time not to be a d!ck to everybody.

                      (Or I was a 16 yr old boy).

                      One of the two.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TorMag View Post
                        Remember, when I say this, I am on your side. But no, bones in a firepit are not conclusive to anything other than "Hey there were some bones in this firepit." Could be that after gnawing on the raw meat bone Grok threw it in the fire to get rid of it, kind of like taking out the garbage. Just saying......
                        Could be~ but I'm thinking he probably threw most of the bones to the dogs (wolves?)

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                        • #42
                          We became human because of cooking, silly.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                            I suspect this is why my old Dentine habit made me so un-civilized. I just didn't have time not to be a d!ck to everybody.

                            (Or I was a 16 yr old boy).

                            One of the two.
                            2 out of 3 doctors agree.
                            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                            Ernest Hemingway

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Nady View Post
                              Could be~ but I'm thinking he probably threw most of the bones to the dogs (wolves?)
                              Only if they kept dogs. Otherwise it becomes stupid in the extreme to toss bones out of the cave that will only attract local carnivores. Plus, bones burn and burn hot. Fair fuel (once you're done with the marrow and meat) if wood is scarce (or you can't get out and get more wood for weather or whathaveyou).

                              Just saying.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                                Only if they kept dogs. Otherwise it becomes stupid in the extreme to toss bones out of the cave that will only attract local carnivores. Plus, bones burn and burn hot. Fair fuel (once you're done with the marrow and meat) if wood is scarce (or you can't get out and get more wood for weather or whathaveyou).

                                Just saying.
                                Yeah, what he said.....
                                I Kettlebell therefore I am.

                                My Journal
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