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  • #16
    In regards to hunting, its also pretty well accepted that hunting dogs have been used since the beginning of Humanity, and earlier to Neanderthals.

    A pack of dogs can definitely turn the tide of a hunt.
    SW: 324.6 ----- CW: 310
    Primal Journal

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
      Wasn't there some recent archeological evidence uncovered that showed Neanderthals or perhaps it was a pre-human ancestor, used fire for cooking? Humans were not the first advanced primates to use fire for cooking.
      Oh yes.
      I was just simplifying.
      Humans, as in Homo sapiens, have had fire and cooked for their entire evolutionary period as far as anthropological evidence can tell.
      It sort of negates the "stuff shouldn't be cooked" line right off the top.
      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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      • #18
        Evidence That Human Ancestors Used Fire One Million Years Ago
        Right here Right now

        An Aussie girl goes Primal

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        • #19
          Humans were propably both scavengers, hunters, gatheres and (like this marvelous video shows) scare away'ers:
          Three Men vs. Fifteen Hungry Lions - Human Planet, Grasslands, Preview - BBC One - YouTube
          Take a walk on the wild side.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
            It is very likely that paleolithic people were more scavengers than hunters, the meat and protein were actually gathered rather than hunted. This would mean that less energy was used satisfying their nutritional needs. In the case of large game there were plenty of other predators to take down game. The predators would then gorge themselves on the muscle meats. What was left was bones filled with fatty marrow and brains. It makes a lot more sense to wait until the predators are sated and resting and then simply go in either take what you want or eat it on the spot.

            If you look at paleo folks as scavengers it really changes how we think of them living in close proximity to large predators. It also changes how we think of their social structure as any one can scavenge, male or female, young or old.
            Yeah, but archaeological evidence shows that they certainly didn't remain scavengers. And the evidence points to hunting tools and cooking (not just fire but actual cooking) much farther back than the OP is insisting. As someone pointed out this evidence points to Neanderthals using fire and hunting tools long before that as well.

            Wherever we started, hunting and cooking and the ability to significantly alter our environment to serve our needs took us far from our scavenging roots.

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            • #21
              So I really like this idea of Primal eating, but I feel a lot of stuff in this community is misinterpreted primal.

              First, cooking is not primal and should be minimized.
              Second, large amounts of animal is not primal. Our ancestors ate leaner wild animals and not in huge quantity.

              If you apply these 2 additional principals, the primal diet is correct.

              Further Elaboration
              ====================

              Cooking
              ------------------

              The fossil evidence points to fires being a recent invention. Cooking creates all sorts of harmful chemicals.

              A good Primal diet should include fruits, vegetables,nuts, and animal.
              Most of it should be raw, but boiling is good for some foods. Since most of us don't have access to freshly killed meat for eating raw, boiling it and making stews is a good substitute.

              EVIDENCE:
              The first clear evidence for hearths isn't until about 250,000 years ago. "The application of heat for food was a late thing," says C. Loring Brace, an anthropologist (see article 1)

              Cooking meat at high temperature creates heterocyclic amines which are carcinogens.
              While eating meat raw may be the only way to avoid HCAs fully, the National Cancer Institute states that cooking meat below 212 °F (100 °C) creates "negligible amounts" of HCAs. (ie boiling is safe) (see article 2)


              True Role of Meats/Fat
              ------------------------------------

              Don't go for the fatty cut of beef..just get the regular piece..even then, its probably still fattier than the WILD animals our ancestors ate.

              Think of wild pheasant, wild duck, alligator, deer, wild quail, snake, squirrel, wild bison, and any other wild animal you've eaten.
              They are often considerably leaner than domestic animals.

              While meat is important, we need to focus more on veggies/fruits/nuts. Hunting is time intensive, difficult, and at times dangerous. Picking fruits, nuts and tubers is easier, safer, faster. Gathered foods are the mainstay of a good diet and meat is an important supplement.

              Bottom line: eat meat but don't gorge on fat(ex no bacon or lard). Eat more salads, fruits, nuts, and tubers.

              EVIDENCE

              Most African hunter-gatherers relied primarily on gathered food, not hunted food. These may be most similar to what we evolved from.

              Ex.
              !Kung people: Animal foods contribute 33% and plant foods 67% of their daily energy intakes. Fifty percent (by wt) of their plant-based diet comes from the mongongo nut, which is available throughout the year in massive quantities.

              Hunter-gatherer Hazda of Tanzania: “the bulk of their diet” is wild plants, although they live in an area with an exceptional abundance of game animals and refer to themselves as hunters

              Aka Pygmies: their avg. collecting area in the African rain forest has a wild tuber biomass of >5 tons.
              (see article 3)




              Summary/Sample Foods
              ==================

              In summary, a greater focus on less cooking, more fruits/vegetables, and leaner meats.


              Bad foods
              --------------
              processed fats: tallow, lard, olive oil, coconut milk
              grilled and fried foods (many carcinogens)
              grains, legumes, dairy
              Meat/Eggs in Excess--- These are supplemental, not mainstays. Our ancestors had *limited* access to these foods, not kilogram upon kilo of it.


              Good Foods

              Leafy veggies
              Fruits
              Starchy veggies(carrots, potatoes)
              Boiled/poached eggs
              sashimi and carpaccio
              nuts
              olives
              whole coconuts
              stews* with meat, fish and veggies
              (all types of meat, organs, and pieces of whole animal fat)

              *Cook enough to avoid food borne illness and to soften some veggies(more palatable and easier to digest), but most food should be raw. Use as low a temperature as possible- boiling is one of the best choices, and it adds water to your diet which is also healthy.(ie soups and stews)




              SOURCES:
              1. Pennisi: Did Cooked Tubers Spur the Evolution of Big Brains?
              2. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...Meats%22.+Nati onal+Cancer+Institute.&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk]Chemicals in Meat Cooked at High Temperatures and Cancer Risk - National Cancer <b style="color:white;background-color:#00aa00">Institute</b>[/url]
              Somebody did not read the book well enough.
              Crohn's, doing SCD

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              • #22
                Another thing that has always got me, especially regarding veg*ans, is that as far as I know, its pretty well established that humans wouldn't have even emerged from the evolutionary pool without meat eating. The protein and fat from meat is pretty much what allowed our brains to develop in the way they did.
                SW: 324.6 ----- CW: 310
                Primal Journal

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                  Somebody did not read the book well enough.
                  Hrm. I think you spelled at all wrong.

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                  • #24
                    Here's an interesting documentary...

                    Did Cooking Make Us Human?

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                    • #25
                      Its funny that someone who takes this caveman/paleolithic thing a little bit further by stating that raw food is more "primal" gets pissed upon.

                      Is proof of fire proof of cooking?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gods unborn son View Post
                        Its funny that someone who takes this caveman/paleolithic thing a little bit further by stating that raw food is more "primal" gets pissed upon.

                        Is proof of fire proof of cooking?
                        I guess the bones in the (carbon dated) firepit are inconclusive~

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gods unborn son View Post
                          Its funny that someone who takes this caveman/paleolithic thing a little bit further by stating that raw food is more "primal" gets pissed upon.

                          Is proof of fire proof of cooking?
                          It's not taking paleo/primal further, it's completely disregarding every bit of evidence we have for how humans came to develop big brains and smaller digestive systems.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gods unborn son View Post
                            Its funny that someone who takes this caveman/paleolithic thing a little bit further by stating that raw food is more "primal" gets pissed upon.

                            Is proof of fire proof of cooking?
                            And presenting factual evidence that someone is mis-informed =/= "pissing upon" anyone.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gods unborn son View Post
                              Its funny that someone who takes this caveman/paleolithic thing a little bit further by stating that raw food is more "primal" gets pissed upon.

                              Is proof of fire proof of cooking?
                              The first reasonably good evidence of cooking is in the form of burned bones and fire altered stones at the Chinese site of Zhoukoudian dating sometime between 780,000 and 400,000 years ago (ie Homo erectus).
                              Early Human Evolution: Early Human Culture

                              I'd say that there is definitely some "proof". It's the most accepted interpretation of the evidence in the anthropological community anyway. If you'd like to argue with that as a lay person, have at it.
                              Last edited by cori93437; 07-15-2012, 02:00 PM.
                              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                And presenting factual evidence that someone is mis-informed =/= "pissing upon" anyone.
                                There was a little pissing. I did some of it myself.

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