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What! There's No Such Thing As Gluten-free Grains?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think some people do have horrible issues with grains/gluten. A lot of the success stories sound like they are people who were flat out sick in awful ways and then healed themselves by eliminating grains. I read their stories and am like, holy shit, I may have been fat and struggling to lose weight, but was never that ill. Sounds like they were going thru a slow death. But obviously, most people do not have that reaction to grains or it would not be such a staple of our diet.
    As I opined yesterday on MDA, I think it's the synergistic assault from over-reliance on grains & crappy refined grain products, chemicals, rancid oils, improper O3-O6 ratios, lack of freshness, vitality & enzymes. Many negatives in food & lifestyle all crashing down on compromised, stessed immune systems.

    Pre-Primal I had an organic lifestyle, excellent supplements & herbs for 20 years. It wasn't until I went full Primal & cut out all grains & beans for an extended period of time, that my inflammation lessened & pain & stiffness abated. I did reduce the amount of fruits & other sources of sugar, but since going Primal & gaining the benefits, periodically I've eaten a lot of sugar (in Hawaii for 9 weeks this past winter, loads of bananas, mango, citrus & many other sweet tropical delights, daily. I ate more fruits than veggies while there) without issues.
    Last edited by Betorq; 08-19-2013, 07:50 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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    • #32
      Fruit doesn't bother me as long as I don't eat it as my complete meal. But I react to a number of grains and seeds besides just gluten grains.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
        To me, the main problem with grains in the SAD is just that people eat them too much.
        Agreed. I believe many of the health issues we face is due to toxic fats and nutrient deficiencies. Refined sugars and grain flours (outside of wheat and maybe oats) aren't so much a toxicity issue as it is a nutrient-density problem. When you consume lots of flours, you take in a lot of calories without much nutrition. This allows you to be fat (due to a caloric surplus) and starving on a cellular level due to micronutrient deficiencies.

        The PUFA oils are just straight up toxic in every way. They are fouling up our lipid profiles and making our fatty acids more like vegetable fats than animal fats. This has disastrous consequences.

        And then we have what I like to call the Perfect Storm - fried flour coated in sugar. Tons of calories and rancid fats with no measurable nutrition. THAT is death on a plate. Mmm, donuts...
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          And then we have what I like to call the Perfect Storm - fried flour coated in sugar. Tons of calories and rancid fats with no measurable nutrition. THAT is death on a plate. Mmm, donuts...
          Navaho Fry Bread better than Small Pox Blankets!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
            One more reason I laugh at people who just eat "some" grains and not others. It's all for the rats and birds, it's not people food.
            Actually it is people food, and we have proof going back 20,000 years now, past the supposed agricultural revolution. We have no idea how much farther we could go back because plant material deteriorates quickly. However, theoretically we could go back 200,000 years because there's nothing complicated about collected sorghum or even wild wheat. In a book titled "Tending the Wild" by Kat Anderson, the author states that natives in California could collect multiple bushels of wild wheat in just an hour or two. Those stone age people ate quite a bit I'm sure, and I'm assuming they were not obese, diabetic, or have any other excessive disease.

            Wheat has been a much bigger problem for the last hundred years due to us beginning to use dwarf wheat. Ancient grains appear fine in moderation.
            Last edited by wiltondeportes; 08-19-2013, 12:39 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
              Fruit doesn't bother me as long as I don't eat it as my complete meal. But I react to a number of grains and seeds besides just gluten grains.
              If you don't eat a food for a while, and then you go back to it, you will react to it. Vegetarians react to meat when they eat it for the first time in a while. This reaction does not mean you are necessarily allergic to it.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by peril View Post
                All life has proteins. My reading of the above is:

                (a) All grain proteins can be put into two classes
                (b) One of the proteins in one of the classes is bad
                (c) Therefore all proteins in that class are bad
                (d) Therefore all grains/seeds containing that class are bad

                I think more science is required, especially support for the statement that: "gliadin" is not the ONLY type of gluten out there, nor is it the ONLY one reeking havoc in peoples bodies
                Ah, I wasn't the only one who saw how poorly it was written. I'll quote myself below, which is basically a response to your topic.

                Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                Terrible research, and I'm far from an expert in the field. I just happened to spend a couple hours tonight on it.

                1. Gliadin makes up about half of gluten in wheat. The other half is glutelin. Gliadin causes Celiac and other nasty diseases, but it's glutelin that causes most allergies involving wheat. I *believe* it's glutelin we should be worried about, not gliadin (unless you're celiac).
                2. The article lists prolamine (the broader category for which gliadin belongs) percentages as if all of the plants had gliadin. Actually, gliadin is only found in wheat and a few of its cousins. There is a different type of prolamine in most grains.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                  magicmerl Can't we just accept that when 'gluten' is used it is most often meant to mean 'gliadin'?


                  Thats my point for posting this magic merl. I'm not physically allergic to wheat gluten not even a little, hell I used to make seitan at home, big pots of it & eat it for days on end, relishing it, never feeling bad, to the contrary I relished it. Same with rice & millet & quinoa, no issues at all. But if I ever ate oats 2-3 days in a row, yikes, serious gas city & sometimes poop ville too! Not all gluten issues are gliadin. There are hundreds of types of gluten just as there are many many grains & many different peoples.
                  I used to happily eat a whole load of bread without any symptoms of gluten intolerance, but for decades I experienced digestive issues after eating non-gluten containing whole foods (e.g. garlic, onion, particular veggies) as well as general IBS symptoms, all of which literally vanished when I removed gluten from my diet.
                  If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                  Originally posted by tfarny
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Misabi View Post
                    I used to happily eat a whole load of bread without any symptoms of gluten intolerance, but for decades I experienced digestive issues after eating non-gluten containing whole foods (e.g. garlic, onion, particular veggies) as well as general IBS symptoms, all of which literally vanished when I removed gluten from my diet.
                    You've just described my father, who overate white bread & freezer section Lender's bagels from the 50s-90s(wow!). He never could tolerate garlic or onions, even well cooked, or mixed into dishes. He can eat chili peppers w/out issue. One thing can cause bowel irritation & dmage, inflammation & compromise the immune system etc, then another set of things will set them off.

                    Interesting info & makes sense really.
                    Thanks.

                    Both my parents are addicted to grains & sugary sweets, and both know about Primal & that I've been 99% pain-free whereas just a few years ago & the past decade + I was almost daily pain that restricted me in life, & have even been bedridden for days 1-2x/year when my "back went out". Last year I even got my mom off grains & beans, crappy oils etc, basically enforced Primal, cause she had a heart attack & was 5 lbs from being classified obese. 40 lbs later, weaned her off 5 of her prescription meds she's walking (no daily) & swimming (some). She's back on bread, crappy rancid oils, packaged sweets, HFCS, all of it. Enforced primal worked (it was months of conflict, complaints & arguing) but it's her life, she has the info, but chooses to take all the meds again, & is slowly gaining the weight back of course, & diverse symptoms that lessened or disappeared are back again.

                    We're all adults, mostly, and everyone has to find their own way, even if it choosing to suffer & accelerate one's decline.

                    Nice to have this community, even with dissention, bickering & conflicting info/opinions. In business, having all partners or employees being yes men, usually leads to some serious trouble over time. I've always sought partners in business with strong opinions and diverse knowledge bases and experiences, otherwise, what's they point?
                    Last edited by Betorq; 08-19-2013, 02:06 PM.
                    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                      You've just described my father, who overate white bread & freezer section Lender's bagels from the 50s-90s(wow!). He never could tolerate garlic or onions, even well cooked, or mixed into dishes. He can eat chili peppers w/out issue. One thing can cause bowel irritation & dmage, inflammation & compromise the immune system etc, then another set of things will set them off.

                      Interesting info & makes sense really.
                      Thanks.
                      My dad was the same. We watched him suffer for over 30 years, getting worse each year to the point were a few years ago where so many foods triggered terrible stomach cramps, chest pains and/or diarrhea, that essentially all he could eat for a meal that didn't cause issues was mushrooms on toast (slight exaggeration the cake never did any "harm", right?..). He was diagnosed with IBS and was told there wasn't much that could be done.

                      Seeing that happen was what pushed me to investigate ways to treat it as my symptoms started to increase and follow the same path (garlic had given me stomach cramps for as long as I could remember). Eventually I found paleo and later primal. 2 or 3 years ago my parents stayed with me for a few weeks and by default at primally. My dad's symptoms cleared almost completely, as did my mum's insomnia (also suffered for decades) and restless leg syndrome.

                      Thinking this was just because they were on holiday and relaxed, they went home and feel back to their normal way of eating and all of their issues came back, only to see everything go south again. After that they didn't need much persuasion to at least the gluten.
                      If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                      Originally posted by tfarny
                      If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                        Last year I even got my mom off grains & beans...
                        You may find beans are making paleo/primal in-roads. It appears that beans (ie. lentils, legumes, etc...) are quite healthy when properly prepared and contain a unique mixture of protein, fermentable fiber, and resistant starch.

                        It seems the best way to prepare beans is to soak them at room temp for 12-48 hours, do not rinse until the end. This allows lacto bacteria to degrade some cell structures and break down certain anti-nutrients and compounds (raffinose, for instance--the fart maker). Properly fermented beans are then slowly cooked until tender. Freezing the leftovers and eating later, warm or cold, gives a boost to the resistant starch content and mineral availability.

                        I was a blind believer in 'no beans, potatoes, rice' for years. I've been eating them all for the past year with no harmful effect.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          I thought Small Pox Blankets were going to be some take on pigs in a blanket.

                          Just made some fry bread (a different recipe from your link) with GF flour and topped it with pork and green tomato. I'm stuffed.
                          "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                          B*tch-lite

                          Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                            I thought Small Pox Blankets were going to be some take on pigs in a blanket.

                            Just made some fry bread (a different recipe from your link) with GF flour and topped it with pork and green tomato. I'm stuffed.
                            Every year at our fair, the Navajo Taco stand has the longest line. I sneaked a peak at their fryer this year--DISGUSTING. Oil looked as if it hadn't been changed since 3 years ago and they were using Wesson Vegetable Oil. The standard taco comes with grilled corn, beans, and cabbage--the most popular menu item was the 'Sugar-fried' variety, however.

                            Your GF fry bread sounds a tad better!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by otzi View Post
                              I saw a still of the guy in that video at the bottom. I immediately lost interest.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by otzi View Post
                                Every year at our fair, the Navajo Taco stand has the longest line. I sneaked a peak at their fryer this year--DISGUSTING. Oil looked as if it hadn't been changed since 3 years ago and they were using Wesson Vegetable Oil. The standard taco comes with grilled corn, beans, and cabbage--the most popular menu item was the 'Sugar-fried' variety, however.

                                Your GF fry bread sounds a tad better!
                                Yes, I think so. And fried in lard. The good kind. I've never been a big fan of sugar fried foods. I like sweets well enough, but donuts and such never did it for me. Krispy who?

                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                I saw a still of the guy in that video at the bottom. I immediately lost interest.
                                Oh, you should have watched! He's like a male Paula Deen. Big old belly putting ground beef with a packet of taco seasoning mixed in on the fry bread. And when he bit into it, crap went all over. Or honey - which was neater. I LOL'd.
                                "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                                B*tch-lite

                                Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                                Comment

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