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Talk me down from a terrible nutrition plan!

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  • Talk me down from a terrible nutrition plan!

    I'm healthy. I've been eating mostly paleo for a little over a year now. When I say mostly, my exceptions are butter and cream and sometimes cheese when I'm eating out. It's a darn clean diet based around meats and veggies. My main problem is that I probably eat too many calories to meet the goals I have of becoming very lean (fitness model lean is what I shoot for, but as you'll see below, probably don't have the drive/willpower/whatever you want to call it to achieve).

    I started working with a trainer who has a lot of fitness/bikini competition experience. She recommended working with her nutrition guy who recommended the plan I've pasted below. She is always urging me to drop fats and add carbs. I am hesitant to do this, but I'm not getting the results I want with my current diet. I know that the plan below would make me grumpy, tired, and downright miserable. I wonder if I should just give up my goals of leanness altogether, because if this is really what it takes to achieve that, I'll never get there!


    WAKE UP: Drink an Advocare Spark energy drink and Coreplex

    TRAIN/CARDIO: Do 30 minutes of any non weight baring cardio in the 65% max heart rate zone three days. Two other days do #20, #26 or #27

    MEAL ONE: Eat 4 egg whites with 1 slice of Rudi’s gluten free bread with for pump of spray butter. If you lft in the a.m. then drop brad and eat 2 Tbsp of cream of rice

    MEAL TWO: Eat 3 oz of tuna with 1/3 cup of diced avocado mixed with 1 heaping Tbsp of salsa

    SNACK: Eat 2 cups of raw green, yellow or white veggies dipped in a mixed of 1 Tbsp of Olive oil and balsamic and a plain rice cake

    MEAL THREE: Eat a 2 cup Romaine or spinach lettuce salad with 1/2 cup of diced red, green and yellow peppers, 3 cherry tomatoes, 3 baby carrots with balsamic vinegar as vinegar. Shoulder and back days add 4 hard boiled egg whites

    DRINK: Spark and eat 3 strawberries of medium size

    TRAIN/CARDIO: Three days do 20 minute outdoor bleacher or stair run followed by 10, 40 yard sprints. Two days do 20 minutes on the step mill utilizing different strides and speeds then run a 1/2 mile at 4% incline. One night i want a class or boot camp

    MEAL FOUR: Eat 4 oz of chicken with 1 oz of flank with 2/3 cup of brown rice and glutamine. If you train in the a.m then make the rice 1/3 cup

    MEAL FIVE: Eat another 3 oz of tuna with 10 banana pepper rings or jalapeños

    SNACK: Drink a 30 gram low carb low fat protein shake of your choice or eat 6 egg whites and take Advocares Night Time Recovery

    Order the advocare products at www advocare.com/110918110
    TAKE DAILY (for now)

    • Take Coreplex

    • Take 400 mgs of Vitamin E

    • Drink a minimum of 2.0 gallons of water daily

    • Whole, organic, or fresh foods are better than frozen, frozen is better than canned

    • 7 to 9 hours of sleep per night and 8 to 10 on the weekends if at all possible

    • Take a recommended dose of Milk Thistle daily for next four weeks,.

  • #2
    lol, you don't need a low fat diet to get skinny, you just need to eat less calories. These people have no idea WTF they are talking about. Don't listen to them and just eat a bit less of the stuff you eat now.

    And WTF is advocare? Does this nutritionist hold stock in the company? Why are they pushing garbage energy drinks and stuff on you. That diet is retarded and those drinks are unnecessary. How stupid.

    And what is milk thistle and why should you take vitamin e? And why should you drink 2 gallons of water a day. This is straight bro science.
    Last edited by jimhensen; 07-03-2012, 09:05 AM.

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    • #3
      i definitely wouldn't stop eating paleo. i mean, spray butter? wtf is that shit?

      you might have to manipulate your calories a little bit, calorie cycle, add some carbs, carb cycle, play with IFing, etc. have you tried any of that stuff yet?

      we also have no idea what you look like, your height, weight, bodyfat, etc. as well as your current diet plan and fitness routine. so it's pretty hard to give any advice really. other than DON'T EAT SPRAY BUTTER

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      • #4
        that doesn't seem all that terrible, except for the fact that it's so specific it seems like it would be easy to stress out about it. by and large, the foods seem pretty whole and primal friendly. it does seem like someone is trying to sell specific supplements, but those are probably more optional.
        this may not look like the average primal meal plan because the low fat nature of it, but it's doable. i think it probably will help with fat loss just because it's likely going to be a lot lower in calories. but, if you want that fitness model look, you've probably got to be hungry most of the time.

        it's possible to get really lean on a primal diet, but that's not necessarily the main goal. reaching homeostasis is going to involve your body holding on to some body fat.
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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        • #5
          Why does EVERYONE have to sell some shit? What happened to good old advice?

          Comment


          • #6
            It is a very standard nutritional plan for a cutting diet; it is probably putting you into the 20-30% fat and 1 to 1.5 g protein per lb of body weight; the rest are carbs. All you have to do is swap bread for tubers, beans or rice/quinoa, and you are good to go.

            As a female you can't get to the fitness model level without dropping fat levels down for the sake of having adequate proteins. Unless you are young and super-lucky genetically. I have no idea what Coreplex is.

            I just started to do 1.5 g protein, 20-30% fat, and 60 g carbs, with one overfeeding day a week (some plans wants you to over-feed, some do not; I am starting with those that do want you to overfeed!). I can tell you that with high low fat protein, 1300-1500 cals day is not hard, particularly when foods are plain. On workdays I have an equivalent of 24 egg whites from egg cartons. I find it far better than having a breakfast of 1 tbsp of coconut oil and a tiny piece of ribs with a sprig of spinach for supper....

            The only difference is that I lift 4x a week, and do 1 or 2 days of intense cardio and walk the rest.
            Last edited by Leida; 07-03-2012, 09:23 AM.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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            • #7
              Yeah, I was kinda miffed at the supplement aspect of it too.

              Yes, I have experimented with meal timing (IFing), primal carbs like tubers, etc.

              I don't consider egg whites to be whole foods, by any stretch of the imagination. I can't bring myself to eat egg whites because I feel like it's so wasteful. I buy lovely eggs from a local farm and would hate to throw the yolks away. I also can't imagine the carton egg whites to be healthier than those eggs. But I guess I'm not going for health if I want to get that lean. I have the same trouble with lean cuts of meat; I buy bulk from a local farm, so I have lots of grass fed beef, but it isn't super lean.

              This diet plugs in at something like 1000 calories/day with intense cardio training. I am 5'3, 130lb, ~20% BF.

              I think I just need to try eating less of what I currently do. I'm not sure why I am struggling with that so much. I get hungry during the day and tell myself it's ok to eat a little more, I'll just try not to have such a big dinner. But then that never happens. I currently eat ~1600-1800 calories/day and I definitely don't lose there.

              Maybe I just need to suck it up. I hate being hungry.

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              • #8
                maybe just clean it up a bit, try some calorie cycling and keep tabs on yourself. if 1600-1800 is your maintenance, then you can alternate days of 1600-1800 with days of 1300-1400 and you will lose some weight. throw in some strength training and little HIT cardio and a daily 1hr walk and those last couple of pesky lbs will fall right off.

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                • #9
                  Remember that figure competitors (female ones) don't stay competition lean all year round, they can't, it's not sustainable. you already know that following that plan is going to make your grumpy and feel crappy then why do it? Keep eating primally, for health, but tailor a plan that keeps your body and your mind fit. Looking like a figure competitor is not going to make you happy if you feel so crappy that you can't go out and enjoy it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kelmar View Post
                    Remember that figure competitors (female ones) don't stay competition lean all year round, they can't, it's not sustainable.
                    exactly this. it's not sustainable or healthy to be that lean year round. those people only look like that for competitions and competitions only

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                    • #11
                      This diet plugs in at something like 1000 calories/day with intense cardio training. I am 5'3, 130lb, ~20% BF.

                      I think I just need to try eating less of what I currently do. I'm not sure why I am struggling with that so much. I get hungry during the day and tell myself it's ok to eat a little more, I'll just try not to have such a big dinner. But then that never happens. I currently eat ~1600-1800 calories/day and I definitely don't lose there.
                      That is because at 20% BF you have hit the normal/average body fat. Lower than that requires controlled food shortage. Lower than that is uncomfortable. Your body do not like being that unless you are a lucky genetic type. You getting hungry means simply that you are healthy. I am 5'6 and 1/2", I am ~ 120-122 lbs, ~ 18% BF on the WW scale (about 18-22% from measurements), and the past 3 years I experimented with everything under the sun, and the conclusion is the same: I trend upward and fattier if I don't go hungry for part of the day. Because my sleep is the most important thing, I put my best and most abundant food into supper and eat just to stave off hunger until then. IF did not do a thing for me, apart from inducing binging. I am experimenting with no sugars and adding beans back in as lean protein and superior starch source.

                      I eat both whole eggs (1 a day) and egg whites (a LOT from the carton), and both full fat meat and super-low fat protein to average about 20-30% BF. It is a compromise. It is not easy. It gets harder the older you get. It sucks. The alternative is a slow descent into fat because that's the way the nature designed us....

                      I would seriously advise you against a lot of cardio load without weights, particularly if you are prone to losing UB muscle (which most women are). I have achieved an 'enviable' physique of a concentration camp victim above the waist-line that way while still sporting thunder thighs. Now, i watch for signs of catabolism like a hawk! I'd rather choke on protein than have thread-thin arms again.
                      Last edited by Leida; 07-03-2012, 11:16 AM.
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm sorry but I cringed at the first shake and then completely dropped out after the spray butter. I wouldn't touch this diet with a 10-foot pole.
                        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          I'm sorry but I cringed at the first shake and then completely dropped out after the spray butter. I wouldn't touch this diet with a 10-foot pole.
                          Lol. Yeah, you lost me on the energy drink.
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

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                          • #14
                            heh, Advocare... I took that, stuff is INSANELY expensive for what it is, junk! At my old gym, where the owner who had the body of a young Arnold, sold me on that stuff. It didn't do me a stitch of good, I actually gained 10 lbs and it wasn't muscle and I was working out almost daily! My bank account was over $1k lighter after one year of supplements from them.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks to all for their advice and validation that um, yeah, spray butter, WTF?

                              Originally posted by Leida View Post
                              That is because at 20% BF you have hit the normal/average body fat. Lower than that requires controlled food shortage. Lower than that is uncomfortable. Your body do not like being that unless you are a lucky genetic type. You getting hungry means simply that you are healthy. I am 5'6 and 1/2", I am ~ 120-122 lbs, ~ 18% BF on the WW scale (about 18-22% from measurements), and the past 3 years I experimented with everything under the sun, and the conclusion is the same: I trend upward and fattier if I don't go hungry for part of the day. Because my sleep is the most important thing, I put my best and most abundant food into supper and eat just to stave off hunger until then. IF did not do a thing for me, apart from inducing binging. I am experimenting with no sugars and adding beans back in as lean protein and superior starch source.

                              I eat both whole eggs (1 a day) and egg whites (a LOT from the carton), and both full fat meat and super-low fat protein to average about 20-30% BF. It is a compromise. It is not easy. It gets harder the older you get. It sucks. The alternative is a slow descent into fat because that's the way the nature designed us....

                              I would seriously advise you against a lot of cardio load without weights, particularly if you are prone to losing UB muscle (which most women are). I have achieved an 'enviable' physique of a concentration camp victim above the waist-line that way while still sporting thunder thighs. Now, i watch for signs of catabolism like a hawk! I'd rather choke on protein than have thread-thin arms again.
                              Thanks, Leida, for chiming in on my thread. I know you have worked really hard to figure out what works for you in the same sort of goals. I think you are right, sub 20% means being uncomfortable. I'm similar with IF inducing binging. I will be interested to hear how the starches go for you. No worries on cardio: I hate it. I like lifting. There's something rewarding about increasing weights. Running faster? Big whoop. I consider dancing good enough for cardio, but on a super restricted diet I find I don't have the energy to make myself go. I do end up doing a lot of body weight exercises through my other hobby, which is aerial silks.

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