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How bad is sugar, really?

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  • How bad is sugar, really?

    White sugar, how evil is it? It's considered very toxic by a lot. But how is it different from sugar in an apple? an apple has fiber and nutrients, but isn't that it?
    I'm sure sugar is bad in excessive amounts, just like everything. And sugar is consumed in excess a lot quicker than fat for example. But how is sugar in itself toxic?
    well then

  • #2
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36157.html
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
    PS
    Don't forget to play!

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    • #3
      Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube

      Explains it all.
      Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
      PS
      Don't forget to play!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
        I actually watched that entire video about a year ago, but I forgot almost everything. All I remember is him saying "everywhere in nature where there is sugar, there is fiber"
        well then

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        • #5
          Then worth watching again.
          Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
          PS
          Don't forget to play!

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is a link to a PDF version of Pure, White & Deadly:

            http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42576421/Joh...ised_1986).pdf

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
              White sugar, how evil is it? It's considered very toxic by a lot. But how is it different from sugar in an apple? an apple has fiber and nutrients, but isn't that it?
              I'm sure sugar is bad in excessive amounts, just like everything. And sugar is consumed in excess a lot quicker than fat for example. But how is sugar in itself toxic?
              No one should consider white sugar toxic IMO.

              Wheat is toxic.
              Soy is toxic.
              HFCS is toxic.
              Bleach is toxic.
              Cyanide is toxic.

              Those things above are toxic because they're loaded with poisons that attack the human body. White sugar isn't toxic in and of itself. It's pure. Yes, it's empty calories. If you eat it, you are getting basically nothing nutritionally. It will make you fat and will give you nothing positive in return aside from brief, immediate gratification from the sweet taste.

              Can sugar BE toxic? Yes, if you consume more than your body can withstand at once, it becomes a toxin. Does that sound scary? Well, it shouldn't. Anything is toxic if you exceed your body's ability to handle the dosage. Too much water is toxic. Too much oxygen is toxic. Too much sunshine is toxic. People have died countless times from consuming too much of all of the above. Simply put, if you have room calorically in your diet for the white sugar, you eat a diet nutritious enough to absorb the empty sugar calories and you don't give your body a dosage higher than it can handle at once, there isn't anything inherently "wrong" with consuming white sugar. Putting a packet of white sugar in your coffee each morning isn't going to hurt anyone. Even a diabetic could probably handle 4 grams of white sugar. Drinking Pepsi Throwback, which has over 10 teaspoons of sugar in a single shot? Now THAT is going to be an issue for most because that is approaching even a healthy person's liver's ability to process that amount of refined sugar. Combine that with other carbohydrate and you're now in the eye of a shitstorm.

              How much white sugar is in my diet? ZERO. I don't consume white sugar. The only time it may happen is when I go out to eat and I put on the blinders to what's in the sauces I get with my foods. Let's face it, most restaurants are probably putting sugar in buffalo wing sauce. I'll deal with it. When I'm at home, the only sweeteners I have in my pantry are stevia, uncooked/unfiltered creamed honey, organic Grade B maple syrup, organic whole coconut sugar and blackstrap molasses. And I even use those things VERY sparingly.
              Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-03-2012, 08:20 AM.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                I actually watched that entire video about a year ago, but I forgot almost everything. All I remember is him saying "everywhere in nature where there is sugar, there is fiber"
                Sure there is. It's not the fiber IMO. Sticking inulin in stuff isn't going to help. There isn't any fiber in raw honey, molasses or maple syrup. When you consume whole sugar, you're getting dozens - and sometimes hundreds - of antioxidants and phytochemicals along with the sugars that retard, or even eliminate, the oxidative damages of sugar. Boiled honey from the grocery store - the fake, clear crap - shoots your triglycerides through the roof. Raw honey doesn't, so there is something protective going on there. With fruit, the benefits often outweigh the downsides. A lot of fruit is very nutritious.

                It's true, you won't get this protection with white sugar. The beneficial properties are removed, so you're going to elevate your trigs. However, I don't personally believe that small servings are enough to cause damage. Even Mark Sisson puts white sugar in his morning coffee. Just don't let your teaspoon turn into a tablespoon. It's a slippery slope. I recommend not buying white sugar at all and avoiding it wherever you can. Just don't go all Whole 30 Nazi style where you flip out because there may be 1/2 teaspoon of white sugar in your buffalo wing sauce at a restaurant.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #9
                  Weston A. Price showed what sugar can do to your facial structure and teeth. It's too late for your facial structure, but you can save your teeth.

                  I don't find sugar to be especially troublesome for me, actually, as long as I stay moderate about it. In fact, I prefer to get my carbs from sugar when I can. Usually in the form of chocolate or dried fruit. Sometimes fresh fruit in the form of a mango salsa or even a coconut cream smoothie or fresh plums from the neighbors. Even ice cream the other night.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    Weston A. Price showed what sugar can do to your facial structure and teeth. It's too late for your facial structure, but you can save your teeth.

                    I don't find sugar to be especially troublesome for me, actually, as long as I stay moderate about it. In fact, I prefer to get my carbs from sugar when I can. Usually in the form of chocolate or dried fruit. Sometimes fresh fruit in the form of a mango salsa or even a coconut cream smoothie or fresh plums from the neighbors. Even ice cream the other night.
                    Ray Peat has made very convincing arguments that sugar is far more healthful than starch. He claims that because the GI is much lower, it doesn't instantize in your body the way starch does. We know for a fact that starch is far more glycemic than sugar, so he claims sucrose is much less likely to be stored as body fat thanks to the fructose counterpart that slows the body's absorption and helps minimize the insulin response. He recommends you get your carbs from whole fruit sources, mainly melons and tropical fruits (not berries because you're forced to eat the seeds which are toxic, not bananas because they're starchy and not apples because they're often shelf-ripened), and dairy (lactose). I think he makes valid points. I still love my potatoes and bananas, though.

                    Peat also recommends using white sugar as a supplement to reduce stress, so YMMV with that kind of advice. I'll pass on that one. I'd rather eat real food.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                    • #11
                      White sugar is useless and in any sense of the term may as well be called a toxin (don't forget it is far more fructose than starch). There is obviously going to be variance in how your metabolism (young guy that is underweight) responds to it vs. somebody else.

                      IMO there is absolutely no reason to start using it now though. Just would be setting yourself up for possible issues later. Then again its kinda like drugs....If you wanna test the waters and see if you can be a recreational user thats up to you
                      Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-03-2012, 08:35 AM.

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                      • #12
                        If you are TRULY interested in the starch vs. sugar debate.....here it is, from the horses mouths themselves

                        Is It Good to Eat Sugar? | Perfect Health Diet

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          Ray Peat has made very convincing arguments that sugar is far more healthful than starch. He claims that because the GI is much lower, it doesn't instantize in your body the way starch does. We know for a fact that starch is far more glycemic than sugar, so he claims sucrose is much less likely to be stored as body fat thanks to the fructose counterpart that slows the body's absorption and helps minimize the insulin response. He recommends you get your carbs from whole fruit sources, mainly melons and tropical fruits (not berries because you're forced to eat the seeds which are toxic, not bananas because they're starchy and not apples because they're often shelf-ripened), and dairy (lactose). I think he makes valid points. I still love my potatoes and bananas, though.

                          Peat also recommends using white sugar as a supplement to reduce stress, so YMMV with that kind of advice. I'll pass on that one. I'd rather eat real food.
                          It's probably personal differences, but I found that too much carbohydrate from starch gives me constipation. Carbohydrate from candy and fruit doesn't seem to do that. I enjoy starchy vegetables, but I enjoy them in moderation with PLENTY of butter on top. I'll skip the spoonfuls of sugar, though. And too much fruit gives me the opposite digestive issues.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Sure there is. It's not the fiber IMO. Sticking inulin in stuff isn't going to help. There isn't any fiber in raw honey, molasses or maple syrup. When you consume whole sugar, you're getting dozens - and sometimes hundreds - of antioxidants and phytochemicals along with the sugars that retard, or even eliminate, the oxidative damages of sugar. Boiled honey from the grocery store - the fake, clear crap - shoots your triglycerides through the roof. Raw honey doesn't, so there is something protective going on there. With fruit, the benefits often outweigh the downsides. A lot of fruit is very nutritious.

                            It's true, you won't get this protection with white sugar. The beneficial properties are removed, so you're going to elevate your trigs. However, I don't personally believe that small servings are enough to cause damage. Even Mark Sisson puts white sugar in his morning coffee. Just don't let your teaspoon turn into a tablespoon. It's a slippery slope. I recommend not buying white sugar at all and avoiding it wherever you can. Just don't go all Whole 30 Nazi style where you flip out because there may be 1/2 teaspoon of white sugar in your buffalo wing sauce at a restaurant.
                            I don't consume white sugar on a regular basis, but sometimes, like once every 1-2 months I get a huge sugar craving. I don't think it's a sugar addiction since it happens so rarely. But when such a craving hits, I eat like tons of dried fruit or maybe a pint ice cream, I think that comes down to 80g white sugar or so. Wouldn't be surprised that's toxic to the liver. But I feel great from it, my sprints also go faster after it. I would love to read some studies on the effects of sugar which are not so biased, a lot of articles are written with the mindset that even 1g of sugar will totally kill you.
                            well then

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                            • #15
                              Semi-unrelated question: Why do sweet potatoes hurt my stomach, but I can eat 4 bananas in a sitting and feel great? It's all starch, right?

                              _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

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