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  • #61
    Instead of this BS, let's talk about new GMO strains of wheat versus traditional types of wheat. Grandma may have eaten sammiches but her wheat was better for you than yours.
    You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Jen AlcesAlces View Post
      This study goes more to your phytic acid argument:

      Iron-deficiency anemia in an Iranian population associated with high intakes of iron. Adequate iron intake was not enough for the folks that were studied, as the high phytate content of their bread inhibited the absorption resulting in anemia.
      I applaud your research. But I will point out that Americans don't eat "unleavened wholemeal wheat bread that is the main dietary staple of the villagers" for the most part. So this isn't really an issue.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
        I disagree with this. Less taste is subjective. What about a nice pasta dish with sauce? Would you prefer eating the sauce like a soup or something? I can tell you that I would much rather have a pizza than some melted cheese with tomato sauce. And I would much rather have a burger than just the burger patty. And I am pretty sure the great majority of people would agree with me.

        What I am saying is if you already are getting enough protein, healthy fats, and micro nutrients from your diet, adding some grains to round out your calories will not negatively effect your health. And despite what you say, they enhance your meal and the great majority of people agree. If grains are so tasteless then why do people have such a hard time giving them up? And don't give me some addiction garbage or something like that...it is because people like to eat them.
        There is nothing subjective about it grains are tasteless. I have said all along grains are good carriers of flavour that does not mean they have flavour. A nice rich meat sauce covered in cheese I could eat on its own. Plain pasta....blah.

        The sauce is tasty the grains are not. They have a nice texture, they carry flavour well and people are told to eat them. However considering the number of people reporting carb flu addiction is not only possible but is highly likely.
        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
        PS
        Don't forget to play!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
          These small percentage of people should be out of scope for this discussion.

          2.3% of Americans suffer from fish and shellfish reactions (over 7 million). Another 1.8 million have allergic issues with tree nuts (almonds, cashews, etc). If Celiacs can make the leap that wheat is universally bad because they can't handle it then the millions of folks with allergic reactions to these universally accepted Primal foods have the same right to say these foods aren't healthy for the same reasons.
          Wikipedia is very CW in their reporting of things and even it states the case for gluten intolerance at 10%.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
            I applaud your research. But I will point out that Americans don't eat "unleavened wholemeal wheat bread that is the main dietary staple of the villagers" for the most part. So this isn't really an issue.
            The leavening is irrelevant.
            Many Americans do in fact eat wholemeal wheat bread... and the short fast rise process that the commercial bakeries use, as opposed to traditional long process sourdough leavening, doesn't do spit to reduce phytate content.

            Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
            Ever heard of a straw man argument? It is when someone argues against a point that their opponent never made. I never made the claim, nor would I, that grains are nutritionally superior to vegetables. But, if you are already eating enough vegetables, eating bread instead of more vegetables won't have adverse effects on your health.
            Also... since MOST Americans eat bellow the recommended servings of fruits and vegetables... they should probably avoid the bread.
            Personally, I had rather have more nutrition that offered in bread or pasta... they both seem pretty useless as far as dietary need goes.


            Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
            I disagree with this. Less taste is subjective. What about a nice pasta dish with sauce? Would you prefer eating the sauce like a soup or something? I can tell you that I would much rather have a pizza than some melted cheese with tomato sauce. And I would much rather have a burger than just the burger patty. And I am pretty sure the great majority of people would agree with me.

            What I am saying is if you already are getting enough protein, healthy fats, and micro nutrients from your diet, adding some grains to round out your calories will not negatively effect your health. And despite what you say, they enhance your meal and the great majority of people agree. If grains are so tasteless then why do people have such a hard time giving them up? And don't give me some addiction garbage or something like that...it is because people like to eat them.
            Sauce... I eat it with... VEGETABLES. Shocking I know, but delicious. A good marinara over some roasted butternut squash is divine... better than any pasta I ever tasted.
            Burgers, topped with a load of veg... onions, peppers, mushrooms... EASIER to eat with a fork... all that stuff just slids out of the bun and makes a mess.

            As far as "Majority" opinions... that's ridiculous. Not so long ago it was the majority opinion in America that black people were not equal to whites. Just because an OPINION is held by the majority does not make it correct by any means.

            People have a hard time giving them up because they have been raised with them as a part of their life/food culture. Just like many people have problems giving up soft drinks and candy even those those things are unhealthy to eat all the time.
            Last edited by cori93437; 07-02-2012, 11:32 AM.
            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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            • #66
              @ Neckhammer - I didn't cite Wikipedia, my bad for not posting my source.

              We can finagle with actual numbers all we want but the point is still valid.
              http://stackingplates.com/

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Grumpycakes View Post
                Instead of this BS, let's talk about new GMO strains of wheat versus traditional types of wheat. Grandma may have eaten sammiches but her wheat was better for you than yours.
                Careful with the GMO label...we are not there yet. It has been irradiated, cross bread and more but the strict definition of GMO is adding or removing a gene in the lab. A splitting hairs technicality but it is strictly not GMO.
                Corn is GMO with insecticide which we ingest but even worse the insects are developing resistance to which could ruin the corn crop.
                Last edited by Dirlot; 07-02-2012, 11:39 AM.
                Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                PS
                Don't forget to play!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                  What about a nice pasta dish with sauce? Would you prefer eating the sauce like a soup or something? I can tell you that I would much rather have a pizza than some melted cheese with tomato sauce. And I would much rather have a burger than just the burger patty. And I am pretty sure the great majority of people would agree with me. .....

                  If grains are so tasteless then why do people have such a hard time giving them up? And don't give me some addiction garbage or something like that...it is because people like to eat them.
                  If you came here with bushels of wheat to sell, you may want to try listing them on craigslist.org. It's free! Ebay also has a grocery section, although they charge for listings. If you are giving away your wheat, try Freecycle.

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                  • #69
                    Since you ignored my previous questions:

                    Are you trolling? Yes or No?
                    Lifting Journal

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                    • #70
                      if grains cause inflammation and autoimmune reactions in some, it really doesn't matter what science shows across a broad spectrum of the population (or across a narrow spectrum, as is more often the case).

                      And it doesn't matter to the individual if its the grains causing the inflammation, or some other component (reaction to gmo, pesticides, mold, mold inhibitors, etc.)

                      Science can help us understand WHY people feel better grain-free. What bugs me is when people use science to tell others how they SHOULD feel, as if we can read an esteemed journal and wish our joint pain or intestinal pain away.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by fitmom View Post
                        Science can help us understand WHY people feel better grain-free.
                        Nonsense, you are speaking as if everyone has Celiac disease. Even in the United States, roughly 90+% do not have this intolerance and a comparable amount have allergies to seafood. If I had a seafood intolerance and came in here preaching about the dangers of salmon consumption and how everyone should ditch it for health reasons, would you think I was out of my mind?

                        The fact is that the majority of the world consumes ample grains as a staple of the diet; including the longest living, arguably healthiest, societies in the world.
                        http://stackingplates.com/

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
                          Careful with the GMO label...we are not their yet. It has been irradiated, cross bread and more but the strict definition of GMO is adding or removing a gene in the lab. A splitting hairs technicality but it is strictly not GMO.
                          Corn is GMO with insecticide which we ingest but even worse the insects are developing resistance to which could ruin the corn crop.
                          Got news for you~ it's all Round-up Ready. Corn, wheat, soybeans, all other grain crops, even sweet corn now. Have farmers in the family. Want to know something else? If the farmer doesn't buy Round-up ready seed from the seed salesman, he can't sell his crop. Because the salesman reports to the grain elevator who bought from him and the farmers that don't get their crop blackballed.

                          It's a much bigger than you think!
                          Last edited by Nady; 07-02-2012, 11:39 AM.

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                          • #73
                            @ StackingPlates

                            I wasn't actually "calling you out". I didn't even realize I was replying directly to you. The point that the known percent of people sensitive to gluten (this is without considering any other issues with wheat) continues to rise. Started at 1% have ciliacs....then its up to 10% have measurable gluten intolerance....then we discuss GMO hybridization, GI, and essentially crowding out better nutrient sources. I believe there have also been many correlations (I know not causation) epidemiological studies showing that as wheat consumption increases health gets worse. I would have to go back through and find these, but I'm not THAT interested in this debate. I've decided if I want a grain rice is good nuff for me.

                            I will leave it that wheat may not be a problem for everyone. Its fairly obvious that traditional preparation of non-GMO modified wheat is a whole different animal than the crap we find in the store. But, it is also obvious that many people who are sensitive to wheat will not know it until it is too late....i.e. autoimmune or other gut pathology ensues. What is the percent of these people? I don't know for sure, but I think its likely to be far more than 10% and only time (and better techniques to evaluate this "pathology") will tell.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by StackingPlates View Post
                              Nonsense, you are speaking as if everyone has Celiac disease. Even in the United States, roughly 90+% do not have this intolerance and a comparable amount have allergies to seafood. If I had a seafood intolerance and came in here preaching about the dangers of salmon consumption and how everyone should ditch it for health reasons, would you think I was out of my mind?

                              The fact is that the majority of the world consumes ample grains as a staple of the diet; including the longest living, arguably healthiest, societies in the world.
                              Not entirely as cut and dried as that... autoimmune response to grains is not limited to Celiac... new research is showing links to other disease as well. No I don't have the links saved to post here but I've read them... some real connection is being made between grain consumption and several other autoimmune related illnesses.
                              You don't have to be "Celiac" and Celiac only to be impacted by grains.
                              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                                I applaud your research. But I will point out that Americans don't eat "unleavened wholemeal wheat bread that is the main dietary staple of the villagers" for the most part. So this isn't really an issue.
                                Perhaps "unleavened wholemeal wheat bread" isn't the dietary staple as it is in Iran, but a large number of non-primal folks do eat flatbreads, pitas, flour tortillas, or leavened/yeast bread with every meal. If I recall, yeast has little effect on the phytate content of a bread, but fermentation does (sourdough). So, being unleavened isn't really the issue.

                                However, the more bran in a bread, the more phytate - so whole grain versions (you know, the healthy ones!) would contain more phytates than a heavily refined white bread. Hmm, there was a study on that, might have to find that one. Anyway, my point is that the indications to eat whole grains at every meal (toast with your breakfast! Sandwich for lunch! Whole wheat pasta for dinner!) may be very problematic for those susceptible to iron, calcium, or magnesium deficiencies.
                                Jen, former Midwesterner, living in the middle of nowhere.

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