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  • #46
    Originally posted by codered5 View Post
    No, glycemic load is not at all BS, hence the fact that people who eat grains tend to eat more calories overall. The high acidic comments have a ton of science behind them, watch Forks over Knives. And the "super healthy" people you talk about that eat grains? When I think of super healthy, I think fitness models...who all start to eliminate grains leading up to a shoot to eliminate the "bloat" it gives them. Helps them cut, sometimes 10 pounds in a week. I guess that "bloat" is just a healthy thing. Also "super healthy" is difficult to see from the outside.
    LOL...I am sorry but you are really misinformed. First of all you want me to watch forks over knives for the science in it? You realize that forks over knives is vegetarian propaganda and promotes a diet full of whole grains that is probably about 80% carbs and does not have any meat or oils? Am I missing something here?

    Also, fitness models cut out grains because it helps them lose water weight, thus making their muscles more visible. Its not "bloat" it is "a healthy level of hydration." Fighters that have to weigh in cut weight like this too. I believe for every gram of carbs you eat, your body retains 3 grams of water.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
      Certainly brainwashed why else eat something low in nutrition, high in calories and low in taste?
      Because it is delicious.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
        Cheese sandwich VS a huge healthy salad (same calories but not the same nutrition)
        I can see people choose the easy option of two slices of bland bread and cheese but for overall flavour and nutrition the salad wins hands down.

        It is so easy to make real food take this quick and easy salad vs a cheese sandwich. Same calories and salad walks all over the sandwich in terms of nutrient value It is clear from this example (and easy to provide others) that grains are an inferior nutrient source compared to whole foods. Provided you replace grains with real food and not processed gluten free imitations you will have no problem meeting and massively exceeding the nutrient value of grains.
        I never said that a cheese sandwich is better than eating a salad. And I never eat cheese sandwiches, they are reasonably nutritionally void. I'm not arguing that you should eat TONS of grains. I am just saying having a sandwich or pasta dish once or twice a day, as part of a healthy balanced diet, is not going to be any less healthy than if you replaced those calories with something else.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
          Another one, I got this from a source which was arguing against Mark Sisson's article "why grains are unheatlhy".

          This source said for example, that lectins are indeed binding to nutrients which make them unabsorbable. Even CW sources agree with this. But that lectins are in everything you eat so saying eating grains is bad for you because of the lectins is bullshit since it's in everything.
          However, I doubt meat or fruit has as much lectin as grains. So if you consume grains, you will eat MORE lectin and LESS nutrients than if you would eat meat instead of grains. So if you eat MORE lectin and LESS nutrients AND ON TOP OF THAT the lectins bind to the nutrients, you probably got very little left.
          Are there any studies that show that people that eat the most grains are chronically deficient in these nutrients that lectins bind to? If not, it can't make that much of a difference, can it?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
            I never said that a cheese sandwich is better than eating a salad. And I never eat cheese sandwiches, they are reasonably nutritionally void. I'm not arguing that you should eat TONS of grains. I am just saying having a sandwich or pasta dish once or twice a day, as part of a healthy balanced diet, is not going to be any less healthy than if you replaced those calories with something else.
            It not so much the cheese (which was part of the salad) but the bread which took up so much of the calories with so little taste or nutrition.
            We can split hairs on the healthy since you don't buy into the grains are poison. However, eating grains will have a lot less taste, a lot more calories and a lot less nutrition - fact!
            Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
            PS
            Don't forget to play!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
              Are there any studies that show that people that eat the most grains are chronically deficient in these nutrients that lectins bind to? If not, it can't make that much of a difference, can it?
              Really wondering why you care? What's your agenda? If a small percentage of informed people discover that grains aren't their friend, what's it to you? Do you think you can beat them over the head with research and all their intolerance issues will magically disappear?

              No one is telling you to stop eating grains~ So why can't you just let it be?

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              • #52
                So conslusion, avoid grains, but that 1 piece of bread you might eat at your friend's party is not really considered "20%"
                well then

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                  I never said that a cheese sandwich is better than eating a salad. And I never eat cheese sandwiches, they are reasonably nutritionally void. I'm not arguing that you should eat TONS of grains. I am just saying having a sandwich or pasta dish once or twice a day, as part of a healthy balanced diet, is not going to be any less healthy than if you replaced those calories with something else.
                  You FAIL so hard.

                  The cheese was the common denominator between both the sandwich and the salad.
                  So yes, replacing in that one meal the vegetables with the bread did impact nutrition.

                  Also, the fact that you WANT to eat grains is great... go eat them.
                  But why keep bothering people who don't want to.
                  By not eating gluten grains we are not hurting out health in any way, so their is not reason for your obsession.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                  • #54
                    Ur body wants to burn one source if fuel. If u have fat and carbs, ur body will burn carbs. Because of this ur body doesn't burn fat. So when u eat fat it just sits on you. You never burn it because u burn carbs. Carbs burn fast because ur body wants to get rid of them because they are toxic. Because your body burns them so fast you get hungry moe often and eat more.

                    Grains and carbs raise your insulin levels, which is the number one reason people get fat.

                    I don't think dating grain kills you, but it's the gun the fires the bullet that kills you.

                    This is all right from his book.... There is no reason your body needs grains. Ur brain needs grains because it thinks it needs tasty pizza.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                      So conslusion, avoid grains, but that 1 piece of bread you might eat at your friend's party is not really considered "20%"
                      Not quiet, that piece of bread is part of the 20%. Eat as clean as you can but if you are out with friends at a birthday party don't sweat a beer or small piece of cake. Don't plan to eat crap but if it happens once a month so what - 80/20!
                      Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                      PS
                      Don't forget to play!

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                      • #56
                        This study goes more to your phytic acid argument:

                        Iron-deficiency anemia in an Iranian population associated with high intakes of iron. Adequate iron intake was not enough for the folks that were studied, as the high phytate content of their bread inhibited the absorption resulting in anemia.


                        Also, I understand the studies showing a phytic acid/cancer connection, but why must we eat grains (particularly large amounts of them) when nuts/seeds may be a better source? One could feasibly eat nuts as a standalone snack - which is often the case - instead of eating grains with every meal, as is recommended by the US Govt. Doing this would allow the benefits of phytic acid to work its magic, while not inhibiting iron, calcium, and magnesium absorption from other foods within a meal. So, not sure the "we need grains for phytic acid" holds any water at all... especially with the large number of people I know with anemia & osteoporosis, despite more than adequate intake of iron, calcium, and magnesium.

                        For the record, I do not think grains are bad for everyone, but that grains are not an ideal food. They are benign or even healthy for many people, slightly troublesome for many, and downright poison for some people. I will never say that no one should eat grains ever. However, I will state that when chronic illness is an issue, removing grains and experimenting to see which may be troublesome for any given individual should be part of the protocol in restoring health. Unfortunately, the attitude that we need grains and calling those of us who limit them "stupid" will continue to turn people off to that option. As one of the many people who has restored my health by limiting grains, it saddens me that dieticians, doctors, and the OP might discourage someone from eliminating problematic foods on the basis that "grains are healthy!" when so far we've only seen that whole grains are better than refined grains and that the main component in grains that is touted as being beneficial can be found in many other foods.

                        Have a nice day!
                        Jen, former Midwesterner, living in the middle of nowhere.

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                        • #57
                          When I compare the different negative aspects of any given food or group of foods, I begin to notice that most foods have enough redeeming qualities to earn their way into edibility. A few examples:

                          Nuts have phytates, and can be inflammatory, but are also powerhouses of nutrition and contain fats - they do not cause blood sugar spikes, they do not cause bloat, acne, gas, or joint pain. Often foreign crops, and who knows if they have pesticides, can be rancid, etc. Overall, worth eating semi-regularly, some risk.

                          Meat causes elevated blood sugar to a degree, but I'm preaching to the choir when I say it's essential for protein requirements, vitamin richness (organ meats, bones, etc.), does not cause bloat, acne, gas or joint pain, can be raised sustainably and locally, usually free of dangerous chemicals on the whole. Worth eating daily, no detriment.

                          Dairy contains lactose, a sugar, and causes (in myself and many others) boils, gas, bloat, stomach pain. It is a good source of fat (and other nutrition, I'm just not familiar since I abstain) . Can be had locally, sustainably, best if raw and from cows with the A2 protein in the milk. Could be used regularly by those who tolerate it, but is poison to me. Not worth eating to me, except maybe once a month as ice cream and paying the price for days after...

                          Then you get American, GMO, Round-up doused, petroleum-heavy hybrid dwarf wheat. A brand new plant that has no evolutionary precedence in any genome. Spikes blood sugar, highly inflammatory, causes gas, may or may not cause acne, provides NOTHING that can't be had elsewhere, is a waste of your tax dollars because it is government subsidized (same for corn, dirty bug-killing corn) and you support Monsanto and similar companies if you buy it. It's the abject opposite of anything sustainable or nutritional. Get your head out of the sand, you don't need a stack of biased studies to refute this - it's common sense. Fake food is fake. The end.

                          Hell, if you want to poison yourself, do your country a favor and go buy some American-made antifreeze or some other poison to drink before you give one more dollar to the grain machine that pulled the wool over our eyes for so long. Sugary breakfast cereals, Macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles - all these things I was told I could eat for every meal all day and week and be safe doing so. Malnutrition, mood swings, disgusting skin lesions and joint pain were all NORMAL to me because of the lies of this food system you, jimhenson the buttmuppet are trying to defend.
                          Crohn's, doing SCD

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Nady View Post
                            If a small percentage of informed people discover that grains aren't their friend, what's it to you?
                            These small percentage of people should be out of scope for this discussion.

                            2.3% of Americans suffer from fish and shellfish reactions (over 7 million). Another 1.8 million have allergic issues with tree nuts (almonds, cashews, etc). If Celiacs can make the leap that wheat is universally bad because they can't handle it then the millions of folks with allergic reactions to these universally accepted Primal foods have the same right to say these foods aren't healthy for the same reasons.
                            http://stackingplates.com/

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
                              It not so much the cheese (which was part of the salad) but the bread which took up so much of the calories with so little taste or nutrition.
                              We can split hairs on the healthy since you don't buy into the grains are poison. However, eating grains will have a lot less taste, a lot more calories and a lot less nutrition - fact!
                              I disagree with this. Less taste is subjective. What about a nice pasta dish with sauce? Would you prefer eating the sauce like a soup or something? I can tell you that I would much rather have a pizza than some melted cheese with tomato sauce. And I would much rather have a burger than just the burger patty. And I am pretty sure the great majority of people would agree with me.

                              What I am saying is if you already are getting enough protein, healthy fats, and micro nutrients from your diet, adding some grains to round out your calories will not negatively effect your health. And despite what you say, they enhance your meal and the great majority of people agree. If grains are so tasteless then why do people have such a hard time giving them up? And don't give me some addiction garbage or something like that...it is because people like to eat them.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                                The cheese was the common denominator between both the sandwich and the salad.
                                So yes, replacing in that one meal the vegetables with the bread did impact nutrition.
                                Ever heard of a straw man argument? It is when someone argues against a point that their opponent never made. I never made the claim, nor would I, that grains are nutritionally superior to vegetables. But, if you are already eating enough vegetables, eating bread instead of more vegetables won't have adverse effects on your health.

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