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Has ANY study shown eating lots of meat is good for longevity and health?

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  • #16
    I also think it would be interesting to know if these "blue zone' groups use traditional preparation methods for their foods - soaking, drying, homemade bone stocks, sprouting, etc. Perhaps they are more Price style?
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jammies View Post
      I also think it would be interesting to know if these "blue zone' groups use traditional preparation methods for their foods - soaking, drying, homemade bone stocks, sprouting, etc. Perhaps they are more Price style?
      yes, all of these groups for the most part were quite traditional. The young and middle aged Okinawans are not following their grandparents examples and will likely not live near as long.

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      • #18
        The first thing I thought when I read your OP is "what do you mean *a lot* of meat?" It's a very relative term, IMO.

        If you are following Mark's advice here, you're hitting in the neighborhood of .7-1.0g protein per lb lean body weight per day, yes? If you are, let's say, 165lb male with 15% bf, that's a lean mass of about 140lbs, or in the range of 98-140g of protein per day. Let's average it, and call it 125 g of protein a day.

        If you're doing some dairy, and having, let's say, a 3-egg omelet in the morning with 1 oz cheese on it, that's about 25 g of protein.

        If you have a handful of almonds, that's about 8 g protein - you're up to 33g for the day

        If you have a salad with salmon on it for lunch - let's be generous and say a 5oz piece - that's 30 g of protein; you're up to 63 for the day.

        If dinner is a steak, and you have a moderately sized flank steak (grass-fed, of course), let's say it's 8 oz, and that's about 56g protein.

        With only one not-so-big serving of red meat, you've hit almost 125g of protein for the day. You've also gotten some fish, nuts, and eggs in there.

        If you do that a couple times a week, and rotate through some other proteins - pork, chicken, turkey, etc etc., the truth is you can be a very primal eater and NOT really eat a ton of (red) meat.

        I know some paleo/primal folks eat a lot more meat than this (I probably do - I don't track it, so I don't know), but I also think it's not at all difficult to be on a primal diet and not consume HUGE quantities of meat.
        “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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        • #19
          Originally posted by jammies View Post
          I think this is an interesting way to look at it. I think that humans evolved in such broad living conditions that we are really able to live well on a wide variety of diets - provided we get a few critical things right. Those groups eat a high vegetable, high grain and legume diet, with some meat and they are quite healthy and long lived. So perhaps the commonalities with primal are the most important part.

          - they are not consuming an excess of calories. I think our bodies can process a lot of things quite well when we are not in caloric excess. Fructose in particular.

          - they eat unprocessed foods. I remember a story not too long ago about the Linda Loma town freaking out because a fast food restaurant wanted to open. In the absence of industrial seed oils, HFCS, and hyperpalatable processed foods we remain pretty health.

          - they fast

          - they encourage lots of movement


          So the key tenets are not so different. A few food items differ and the macronutrient ratio is different. But the big poisons are still avoided. Personally though, I feel pretty crappy on that type of diet. Always hungry, lots of cravings, lots of fatigue - so it wouldn't work for me.

          I would LOVE to see a modern group that lived a largely paleo diet studied.
          Yep, I think we can all agree that unprocessed foods, activity, and lower calorie intake in general are positive things for longevity.

          Also, most of the groups had lots of stressful times, but handled their stress VERY well. They didn't stress the small stuff. Family was another common theme, the importance of family showed up a lot.

          One thing that is interesting was spirituality. While most Paleo enthusiasts tend to be atheist or agnostic (including myself), the centenarians studied in this group were almost all spiritual, whether Japanese or South American or from modern California.

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          • #20
            It's Loma Linda, not Linda Loma. Anyway, the 7th Day Adventists probably have a low-stress lifestyle. I think stress is the biggest killer of them all, something we rarely put at the forefront even in paleo/primal discussions, although Mark really does try to.

            I think it would be great to live like a Central Asian or Mongolian person. They live in such beautiful lands. Huge mountains. Portable dwellings. Everything so decorated. I've been to Nepal. The rural people were poor but so content. Their country-side so austere but so beautiful. I could totally be an ex-pat there, at least for a while.

            Their way of life was hard, but honestly, I find our way of life to be hard, too. It's hard in a different way. I was complaining to someone the other day that I find all this planned obsolescence to be totally exhausting. I really want off the merry-go-round of it. As soon as you barely manage to learn how to use something it doesn't work anymore and you have to start again. As soon as you learn a new way to do web development, it's obsolete and you have to learn another new way. I've got a really good computer, but it's old. I don't want a new computer. The newer ones have less functionality than mine. I have lots of really old software that I would never be able to use again. It takes several days whenever I have to get a new computer just to get all the settings right and install all the freeware that I use. I don't want to do that at an ever-increasing pace. At some point, I'm going to step off the bus and let you young-uns try to keep up with the insanity. It brings me no real value to my life and once I no longer need it to earn a living, I'm outta here. But for now I have to deal with the stress and the expense. It makes folding up my yurt and riding my horse to the summer pastures sound ideal.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #21
              The longest lived are the Mediterraneans and South-East Asians who both eat a lot of fish and vegetables but not huge quantities of meat. The Mediterraneans who live the longest also eat a hell of a lot of dairy.
              F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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              • #22
                It's more about source of calories than how much meat you're eating. Animal fat > sugar.

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                • #23
                  Please remember that Eating/nutrition is only one aspect of the puzzle. I sincerely believe that these areas promote longevity due to the social climate. They respect and find use for their elders. They are revered and NEEDED. Bottom line is I've met a LOT of 80 somethings that simply don't seem all that interested in continuing life. They have nothing to look forward to or any way to contribute. We marginalize our elderly population and tend to look at them quite differently than these Blue Zone populations do. Sardinia is the place I wanna be. Do they eat some breads? Sure, but its all probably traditional preparation with plenty of activity to burn it off. Eat some meat, have some wine, enjoy huge gathering with friends and family that continue to respect your contribution and wisdom well into your 100's? I think that'll do it.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                    Please remember that Eating/nutrition is only one aspect of the puzzle. I sincerely believe that these areas promote longevity due to the social climate. They respect and find use for their elders. They are revered and NEEDED. Bottom line is I've met a LOT of 80 somethings that simply don't seem all that interested in continuing life. They have nothing to look forward to or any way to contribute. We marginalize our elderly population and tend to look at them quite differently than these Blue Zone populations do. Sardinia is the place I wanna be. Do they eat some breads? Sure, but its all probably traditional preparation with plenty of activity to burn it off. Eat some meat, have some wine, enjoy huge gathering with friends and family that continue to respect your contribution and wisdom well into your 100's? I think that'll do it.
                    While I really like the sound of this, in my personal experience it doesn't hold true. I come from an enormous family and we really love, respect, and value our older family members. They participate actively in raising grand-children and great grandchildren, work, have social lives, and never go a day without visitors.

                    But many of them are is pretty poor health - although I guess they have all lived in to their late 70's or early 80's. So maybe have this social network contributes to longevity - but I don't think it can stop the health implications associated with poor diet, etc. At least not in my circle of friends and family.
                    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jammies View Post
                      While I really like the sound of this, in my personal experience it doesn't hold true. I come from an enormous family and we really love, respect, and value our older family members. They participate actively in raising grand-children and great grandchildren, work, have social lives, and never go a day without visitors.

                      But many of them are is pretty poor health - although I guess they have all lived in to their late 70's or early 80's. So maybe have this social network contributes to longevity - but I don't think it can stop the health implications associated with poor diet, etc. At least not in my circle of friends and family.
                      That makes complete sense to me....I think the social structure is what gets a person from 80's to centurion status ONLY if they entered that stage of their life in pretty good health. I'm not discounting the nutritional aspect, just pointing out some additional components. Nutrition is HUGE, but spiritual and social well being (which these societies provide)....I just feel like its the missing link when your talking about hitting that next level.

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                      • #26
                        I agree that longevity is not just about nutrition. However, the OP was specifically about meat and longevity hence other variables need to be isolated.
                        F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          It's Loma Linda, not Linda Loma. Anyway, the 7th Day Adventists probably have a low-stress lifestyle. I think stress is the biggest killer of them all, something we rarely put at the forefront even in paleo/primal discussions, although Mark really does try to.

                          I think it would be great to live like a Central Asian or Mongolian person. They live in such beautiful lands. Huge mountains. Portable dwellings. Everything so decorated. I've been to Nepal. The rural people were poor but so content. Their country-side so austere but so beautiful. I could totally be an ex-pat there, at least for a while.

                          Their way of life was hard, but honestly, I find our way of life to be hard, too. It's hard in a different way. I was complaining to someone the other day that I find all this planned obsolescence to be totally exhausting. I really want off the merry-go-round of it. As soon as you barely manage to learn how to use something it doesn't work anymore and you have to start again. As soon as you learn a new way to do web development, it's obsolete and you have to learn another new way. I've got a really good computer, but it's old. I don't want a new computer. The newer ones have less functionality than mine. I have lots of really old software that I would never be able to use again. It takes several days whenever I have to get a new computer just to get all the settings right and install all the freeware that I use. I don't want to do that at an ever-increasing pace. At some point, I'm going to step off the bus and let you young-uns try to keep up with the insanity. It brings me no real value to my life and once I no longer need it to earn a living, I'm outta here. But for now I have to deal with the stress and the expense. It makes folding up my yurt and riding my horse to the summer pastures sound ideal.
                          Interesting take.

                          Myself, I have no interest in living long-term like a Mongolian. I love my modern comforts and luckily my livelihood doesn't depend on technology, technology is more of a fun hobby for me.

                          My dream is a ranch in the mountains of Idaho. But I definitely want my Air Conditioning, my Central Heat, my Truck, and my computer with high speed internet.

                          I agree 100% about stress. Stress is an absolute killer, that is for sure. I also think lack of sleep is another one that kills millions prematurely, but few are willing to do anything about it.

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                          • #28
                            Too many people focus only on Blue Zone peoples' diets and forget other aspects of their lives. They all live in strong, close-knit communities where elders are highly valued and treated as full members of the community even in very old age. One of the big factors in longevity is social connection and the care and support of people around you.

                            I think their food does play a role--mostly whole, fresh foods, prepared in traditional ways. None of these groups are eating a lot of junk, processed foods, or refined sugars. That plays a role right there, sure. But food is not the only factor in health.

                            Also, the Sardinians eat a fair bit of meat and seafood.

                            But really, a lot of paleo/primal folks don't eat massive quantities of meat. I might eat meat once or twice a day (and I include fish as meat). I tend to eat a lot of eggs, often 4-6 per day either as an egg dish or in other dishes, and I eat loads of vegetables and some dairy in the form of cheese or sometimes whey protein. As a 155 lb woman at about 20% bodyfat, to hit the 0.7g of protein per pound of lean mass per day, I need about 87g, which is quite easy eating an 8-10oz steak and 4 eggs per day plus incidentals like a bit of cheese--add a can of tuna or some leftover chicken at lunchtime and it starts to approach the 1g/lb mark, but I can meet my minimum eating meat just once a day. That's not what I'd define as a "high meat" diet.
                            “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                            Owly's Journal

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                              That makes complete sense to me....I think the social structure is what gets a person from 80's to centurion status ONLY if they entered that stage of their life in pretty good health. I'm not discounting the nutritional aspect, just pointing out some additional components. Nutrition is HUGE, but spiritual and social well being (which these societies provide)....I just feel like its the missing link when your talking about hitting that next level.
                              It's definitely the total package. In the book "Blue Zones", it talks about that.

                              Maybe nutrition adds a few years, low stress adds a few years, family adds a few years, activity adds a few years, genetics adds a few (and likely more) years. You add it all up, you see how some live to 100 while most make it to about 75.

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                              • #30
                                Also, many of these communities don't have a huge influx of outsiders marrying into the culture, so genetics will play a role too.
                                “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                                Owly's Journal

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