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Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen?

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  • #61
    @ Apex OK, my deep and abiding contrition for having used the term "full of it". That was massively hostile of me. Can we move on now to substance?

    Primal=/=VLC. 'Nuff said.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
      Danny-like many here, I have researched and researched metabolic issues and by far, (not even remotely close) folk eating low carb and high fat have the best success. I just don't see a lot of diabetics having real success with Peat's or Barnard's approach. I further have seen where the success they claim to have is from folk with A1C's of 6.8, 6.9-as in what the ADA incorrectly calls good control. For every 1 ice cream eating diabetic following Peat that is "controlling" their disease, their are dozens doing it via LCHF.

      The ADA is absolutely criminal in their diet recommendations to diabetics and the failure rate and complication rate of diabetics are proof to that. You surely aren't arguing with their own statistics are you? Sure there are other factors, non compliance, current progression, fitness and other lifestyle issues, but it starts with diet. Your blog is continuing with their bad advice and based on theory that is not balanced with the overwhelming experience of real world diabetics. It sounds nice and trust me, most diabetics would love to be able to have that ice cream that Peat says is ok and the sugar that you say is good, but what seems like good science to you has bad and often catostrophic results in practice.
      This. It's not only bad science. It's dangerous.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
        I'm still confused as to why/how an intake of significantly more sugar specifically, which is linked in many studies to greatly increasing inflammation levels, would help an already stressful/inflammatory situation due to PUFAs.
        It wouldn't. It would be like pouring gas on a fire.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          It wouldn't. It would be like pouring gas on a fire.
          I know... my Gramma is diabetic and keeping her far away from sugar is the only way to keep her pain managed (peripheral neuropathy from diabetic nerve damage). Yes... her pain gets worse if she doesn't keep her blood sugars very low by avoiding eating the sugar in the first place. Not just eat all the sugar and top off with insulin shots like the doctors tell her is OK.

          I was just hoping he would explain his theory in more than a one little blurb sentence so that it was fully comprehensible.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
            I know... my Gramma is diabetic and keeping her far away from sugar is the only way to keep her pain managed (peripheral neuropathy from diabetic nerve damage). Yes... her pain gets worse if she doesn't keep her blood sugars very low by avoiding eating the sugar in the first place. Not just eat all the sugar and top off with insulin shots like the doctors tell her is OK.

            I was just hoping he would explain his theory in more than a one little blurb sentence so that it was fully comprehensible.
            Yep. I'm dealing with a similar situation with my Dad. His peripheral neuropathy pain has gone away completely since starting Primal and the inflammation in his legs is gone too. His BP has also gone from scary high in the 170s down to 110/65 consistently.

            Maybe I should go get him a cola just to make sure he is not under any stress.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Danny, you say you are anti-stress. Cool. But you have yet to address the differences in the metabolisms of a sugar burner and a fat adapted person. I agree that lack of sugar is very stressful to a sugar burner. Those of us who are fat adapted are burning ketones and glucose as the need arises with no stress at all.
              @paleobird, I have addressed this. Several times. Please reread my posts.

              The release of free fatty acids is a feature of a stressed/aging metabolism.

              Originally posted by cori93437
              I'm still confused as to why/how an intake of significantly more sugar specifically, which is linked in many studies to greatly increasing inflammation levels, would help an already stressful/inflammatory situation due to PUFAs.
              @cori93437, Remember, I'm not suggesting that the solution to everyone's problems is to eat more sugar.

              Optimizing the known factors that influence energy production (saturated fats, sugar, salt, calcium, light), which all support thyroid function and oppose the hormones of adaptation, are all equally as important.

              Pulse and body temperature are great self-diagnostics for gauging where the metabolic rate is at.

              For instance, many who begin with a pulse in the low 60s or 70s feel very different when they hit a consistent pulse rate of 85 or above.
              www.dannyroddy.com

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              • #67
                Danny Roddy - Thanks for stopping by and putting up with the abuse. It always amazes me how people treat visitors, rather than trying to learn, they want to argue and play word games. No amount of studies will appease these people.

                Question for you, you seem to be a fan of a paleo diet. I see you have been to the AHS's and I'm sure you have met and discussed your ideas with others in the paleosphere.

                What tweaks would you recommend to the average Joe eating according to the Primal Blueprint? (ie. a fairly lax paleo with intermittent fasting and doing some form of exercise) I'm not talking about people with serious metabolic derangements or other medical problems.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
                  The release of free fatty acids is a feature of a stressed/aging metabolism.
                  Isn't the release of free fatty acids a feature of losing weight? How can someone lose fat weight without this happening?

                  I realise that health is the goal and not weight loss, but for many people those two initially are aligned and getting healthier does include losing fat.

                  Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
                  For someone who is overweight (say, 25% bf for a man, +10 for a woman) how can you possibly lose fat without releasing free fatty acids?

                  Pulse and body temperature are great self-diagnostics for gauging where the metabolic rate is at.

                  For instance, many who begin with a pulse in the low 60s or 70s feel very different when they hit a consistent pulse rate of 85 or above.
                  What is the basis for the resting pulse of 85 being 'optimal'?

                  I don't know what is optimal, but I would have thought that a higher pulse rate resulted in more wear on the heart....
                  Last edited by magicmerl; 07-05-2012, 02:28 PM.
                  Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                  Griff's cholesterol primer
                  5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                  Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                  TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                  bloodorchid is always right

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
                    @paleobird, I have addressed this. Several times. Please reread my posts.

                    @cori93437, Remember, I'm not suggesting that the solution to everyone's problems is to eat more sugar.

                    For instance, many who begin with a pulse in the low 60s or 70s feel very different when they hit a consistent pulse rate of 85 or above.
                    Nowhere have you addressed the differences between a sugar burning metabolism and a fat adapted one. You just keep repeating that running low on glycogen is stressful and I agree, for a sugar burner, it is. For a "fat burning machine" as Mark called it, there is no stress because there are two sources of fuel readily available.

                    Good to know you are not recommending sodas for all. Backpedaling 101.

                    Why would you want to have such a high heart rate? Talk about un-necessary stress.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      Thanks for stopping by and putting up with the abuse. It always amazes me how people treat visitors, rather than trying to learn, they want to argue and play word games. No amount of studies will appease these people.
                      I'm sure Danny can put up with the slings and arrows of logic and rational thought.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        Nowhere have you addressed the differences between a sugar burning metabolism and a fat adapted one. You just keep repeating that running low on glycogen is stressful and I agree, for a sugar burner, it is. For a "fat burning machine" as Mark called it, there is no stress because there are two sources of fuel readily available.
                        What does being 'fat adapted' mean? Is it just coming out the far side of the low card flu?
                        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                        Griff's cholesterol primer
                        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                        bloodorchid is always right

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                          What does being 'fat adapted' mean? Is it just coming out the far side of the low card flu?
                          Read this post by Mark from a couple of days ago. It really breaks it down well.

                          What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple

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                          • #73
                            For the record, I don't hate Danny or anything. In fact, from what I've read from him, he always seems quite nice.

                            It's mainly that I've seen his exchanges with Kurt Harris (who I think is pretty high up there in terms of scientific knowledge) in other places, and thus now have a strongly negative view of anything Ray Peat.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Read this post by Mark from a couple of days ago. It really breaks it down well.

                              What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple
                              Thanks. He doesn't say it in the article, but I *guess* being fat burning means being in ketosis?

                              Most of that post seemed to be 'painting a pretty picture' rather than explaining the facts. The section on RQ seems to have the same crossover as what danny is talking about (CO2 is mentioned, anyway).
                              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                              Griff's cholesterol primer
                              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                              bloodorchid is always right

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by otzi View Post
                                Danny Roddy - Thanks for stopping by and putting up with the abuse. It always amazes me how people treat visitors, rather than trying to learn, they want to argue and play word games. No amount of studies will appease these people.
                                I haven't seen Roddy be abused in the least here. Just a couple folk questioning his theories that aren't backed up by those living in the reality. Speaking of playing games--shouldn't you be over at Kruse's forum whining incestantly about Mark Sisson not giving Kruse's over the top nonsense the proper respect you think it deserves?

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