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Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen?

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  • Originally posted by girlhk View Post
    I agree that excessive sugar is stress to the body, and can understand how PB is great for stress reduction. My dad is overweight, pre-diabetic, etc., and I would recommend PB to him rather than taking sugar.

    However, I'm interested in how added sugar to my diet, which had been LC, can help. The people here recommending sugar are not recommending huge doses, instead suggesting the idea that sugar is not bad.
    I actually can't find a reason to geek about it if your staying in the context of the PB carb curve.. i.e. generally following LC primal. When your overall load is low I don't think it matters much where you get it from. Whole foods of course will always be superior. I believe you run into issue at high loads and really have to monitor your source quite carefully if your attempting the "high carb" paleo route.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by girlhk View Post
      I agree that excessive sugar is stress to the body, and can understand how PB is great for stress reduction. My dad is overweight, pre-diabetic, etc., and I would recommend PB to him rather than taking sugar.

      However, I'm interested in how added sugar to my diet, which had been LC, can help. The people here recommending sugar are not recommending huge doses, instead suggesting the idea that sugar is not bad.
      The point I'm trying to make is sugars, fats, water, proteins are all just chemical compounds, non are inherently stressful or not stressful. If you are low something you are high something else (ie LC is high fat or protein, low fat is high carb). Its the being low in something or high in something that is stressful to the body. I'll rattle some off:

      Low water: dehydration
      High water: mineral leaching
      low calorie: metabolic downreg, semistarving
      High calorie: SAD diet problems
      low carb/High fat: overused glyco-genesis systems
      High carb/Low Fat: constant clearing of toxic blood glyco
      High protein: Rabbit starvation
      High alcohol: constant clearing of toxic alco

      So understand, you relieved your body of making its own glyco all the fricken time by adding in a little sugar when you where LC, this is what reduced your stress. lets say in six months time your metabolism starts playing up again (gettin stressed) so you add in more sugar to reduce stress, this time it might do nothing because the stress is coming from else where (like maybe low cal) and needs another antagonistic (opposite) response to reduce stress on your body.

      sugar is not magic, it is not a panacea, it doesn't reduce stress, it is a chemical compound used by the body, if your body is getting to much or too little, its gunna get stressed, offering the antagonist to the "too low" or "too high" is what relieves this stress.
      A little primal gem - My Success Story
      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

      Comment


      • "time your metabolism starts playing up again"

        What does this mean? I see this use of "metabolism" all the time, and it is never defined.

        What is "stress" in this context and why is it bad?

        I feel like all of these discussions are metaphysical garbage that does not ever define anything.....it is all vague and snake oilish to me. I am happy to be proven otherwise, seriously. Just an observation.
        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

        Comment


        • All fair points.

          For me, 'stress' is when I start feeling tension or anxious or emotional beyond normal, usually accompanied by racing heart, shakes, difficulty sleeping, too much mental activity, etc. The threshold is different for everyone.

          Oops sorry to all who responded above-- I meant PB is great for weight reduction, not stress reduction.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            I believe you run into issue at high loads and really have to monitor your source quite carefully if your attempting the "high carb" paleo route.
            What would those issues be?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
              @Paleobird, why do you say that, have you read my book? Want me to send you a copy?

              Additionally, are you aware that there are many (referenced) articles available for free on my weblog? If you navigate to them, in the comments section, men frequently ask if they should purchase the book. My answer 100% of the time is that the newer articles I've written are better, and that they should save their money.
              Danny, I'll GLADLY take a free copy of your book! :-D

              Comment


              • I know this thread is very dead, and I'm not sure I have anything to add to bring it to life, but this was a thought provoking thread, even if some of the back and forth was not productive.

                I did VLC for quite a bit, and had a similar experience to many. Did very well on it for awhile, easily lost some weight - plateaued, went lower on carbs and calories, etc.. maybe lost a smidge more, but eventually thinks got somewhat bad and I didn't even realize it. Low body temperature when usually I'm a furnace. Very cold sensitive. Mentally I don't even think I realized how run down I was for awhile. I tried IF-ing (16/8) which energized me temporarily, but made me run down after a week or two. I finally incorporated carb refeeds and began losing again.

                I therefore think we all really need to stay open minded. I for one am constantly questioning my assumptions in general in life. I was pretty tied to my way of thinking, dietarily, due to the success I had. But I think some of my assumptions might have been wrong. I am definitely intrigued by some of Peat's basic ideas. I am strongly considering throwing quite a bit of fruit into my diet and even some sugar (mostly in the form of ice cream or in coffee) or some honey. The first time I did a refeed, (sweet potatoes, rice, and ice cream), it was like someone turned the lights on for the first time in a long time. I used to think it was a trick evil sugar was playing on our brains to get us to eat it. I thought it was accessing addictive pathways (have read some evidence that is true) and made us feel good like a drug, but was still to be avoided. Now I wonder if there isn't some place for it in a healthful diet. I also am definitely more interested in the negative effects of polyunsaturated fats as well.

                I also found the diabetes/insulin resistance discussion interesting. The sugar/carb theory of diabetes is attractive in its simplicity and seems intuitive when you notice the improvement people have with LC diets among those with diabetes. However, that just means glucose control has been wrecked somehow, no? The body is complicated as hell. The potential mechanisms are many and not mutually exclusive. The idea that stress on a cellular level somehow plays a major role is intriguing.

                I'm not buying the whole Peat package, but I am definitely highly intrigued. I plan to delve into the MOAR Peat thread, but I happened upon this thread first and that one is 164 pages long at this point - will take some time.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SJW2 View Post
                  I know this thread is very dead, and I'm not sure I have anything to add to bring it to life, but this was a thought provoking thread, even if some of the back and forth was not productive.

                  I did VLC for quite a bit, and had a similar experience to many. Did very well on it for awhile, easily lost some weight - plateaued, went lower on carbs and calories, etc.. maybe lost a smidge more, but eventually thinks got somewhat bad and I didn't even realize it. Low body temperature when usually I'm a furnace. Very cold sensitive. Mentally I don't even think I realized how run down I was for awhile. I tried IF-ing (16/8) which energized me temporarily, but made me run down after a week or two. I finally incorporated carb refeeds and began losing again.

                  I therefore think we all really need to stay open minded. I for one am constantly questioning my assumptions in general in life. I was pretty tied to my way of thinking, dietarily, due to the success I had. But I think some of my assumptions might have been wrong. I am definitely intrigued by some of Peat's basic ideas. I am strongly considering throwing quite a bit of fruit into my diet and even some sugar (mostly in the form of ice cream or in coffee) or some honey. The first time I did a refeed, (sweet potatoes, rice, and ice cream), it was like someone turned the lights on for the first time in a long time. I used to think it was a trick evil sugar was playing on our brains to get us to eat it. I thought it was accessing addictive pathways (have read some evidence that is true) and made us feel good like a drug, but was still to be avoided. Now I wonder if there isn't some place for it in a healthful diet. I also am definitely more interested in the negative effects of polyunsaturated fats as well.

                  I also found the diabetes/insulin resistance discussion interesting. The sugar/carb theory of diabetes is attractive in its simplicity and seems intuitive when you notice the improvement people have with LC diets among those with diabetes. However, that just means glucose control has been wrecked somehow, no? The body is complicated as hell. The potential mechanisms are many and not mutually exclusive. The idea that stress on a cellular level somehow plays a major role is intriguing.

                  I'm not buying the whole Peat package, but I am definitely highly intrigued. I plan to delve into the MOAR Peat thread, but I happened upon this thread first and that one is 164 pages long at this point - will take some time.
                  Carb refeeds are the default not the exception. Particularly if you have been LC for a while. Also don't fall into the trap of doing the same as you did on LC,

                  You went low and seen success, you went even lower when that success stopped, you then went even lower (by fasting most of the day) when that diminished success stopped. You where on a very slippery slope. You will see success by adding carbs back in but you will see the same diminishing returns when adding more and more carbs in. Particularly once you have corrected the VLC overbalance.

                  A moderate carb diet is far superior to a meat only or fruit only diet.

                  Also peater's (falsely IMO) think that body catabolism and the hormones associated are what causes stress in the body. Have you ever seen the "YIN and YANG" sign? Yep, good we'll that's our metabolism. anabolism and catabolism are forces in the body driven by insulin and glucagon. They originate from the same place (pancreas) and are physiologically bound to each other. Ie you will never find high levels of both in the body, if insulin release is high then glucagon is low and vice versa. In fact how high insulin is will directly correlate with how low glucagon is. A balanced body is the least stressed.

                  What is stressfull to the body is if one of these forces starts to dominate, if catabolism is dominant then the body wastes away, systems shut down etc. if anabolism is dominant the body fills up (with fat) and everything is overworked. Both are stressful on their own.

                  See anabolic systems need catabolism to break down storage and injested food molecules so that insulin can drive these into cells as energy and building blocks and catabolic systems need anabolism to build up body stores and reserves so that the body doesn't start eating itself when catabolism is asked to provide energy molecules. Hope that helps a little.
                  Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 03-19-2014, 05:47 PM.
                  A little primal gem - My Success Story
                  Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                    Carb refeeds are the default not the exception. Particularly if you have been LC for a while. Also don't fall into the trap of doing the same as you did on LC,

                    You went low and seen success, you went even lower when that success stopped, you then went even lower (by fasting most of the day) when that diminished success stopped. You where on a very slippery slope. You will see success by adding carbs back in but you will see the same diminishing returns when adding more and more carbs in. Particularly once you have corrected the VLC overbalance.

                    A moderate carb diet is far superior to a meat only or fruit only diet.

                    Also peater's (falsely IMO) think that body catabolism and the hormones associated are what causes stress in the body. Have you ever seen the "YIN and YANG" sign? Yep, good we'll that's our metabolism. anabolism and catabolism are forces in the body driven by insulin and glucagon. They originate from the same place (pancreas) and are physiologically bound to each other. Ie you will never find high levels of both in the body, if insulin release is high then glucagon is low and vice versa. In fact how high insulin is will directly correlate with how low glucagon is. A balanced body is the least stressed.

                    What is stressfull to the body is if one of these forces starts to dominate, if catabolism is dominant then the body wastes away, systems shut down etc. if anabolism is dominant the body fills up (with fat) and everything is overworked. Both are stressful on their own.

                    See anabolic systems need catabolism to break down storage and injested food molecules so that insulin can drive these into cells as energy and building blocks and catabolic systems need anabolism to build up body stores and reserves so that the body doesn't start eating itself when catabolism is asked to provide energy molecules. Hope that helps a little.
                    I agree about carb refeeds. I hope I made that clear. I'm on that bandwagon.

                    Anyway, yes, your idea of balance and yin and yang makes a lot of intuitive sense. Worth thinking more about. I also agree there is a tendency to push things to further extremes when things don't work, rather than let them return to a more balanced/moderate state.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SJW2 View Post
                      I agree about carb refeeds. I hope I made that clear. I'm on that bandwagon.

                      Anyway, yes, your idea of balance and yin and yang makes a lot of intuitive sense. Worth thinking more about. I also agree there is a tendency to push things to further extremes when things don't work, rather than let them return to a more balanced/moderate state.
                      Bingo, you've got it.

                      If lifting heavy weights isn't really working for ya at 3 days a week don't do it five times a week. The yin and yang of weightlifting.

                      If you can't convince your ex partner to get back with ya with 5 texts/calls per week. Ringing 10 times ain't gunna help much more. The yin and yang of relationships.

                      Hehe, light hearted examples but worth the thought. To not lift or not ring, because of the risk of over doing something is just as bad also, keep that in mind.
                      A little primal gem - My Success Story
                      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                      Comment


                      • I know this thread is very old and seems to have died down - but figured I'd post my question here anyway. I'm a Type 1 diabetic (NOT Type 2 - radically different diseases), and am trying to understand how to balance Peat's recommendations (or Danny Roddy's interpretation of Peat's recommendations).

                        My main confusion is whether Peat cares about keeping insulin intake low or not. As a Type 1 (I have an insulin pump) I externally control my insulin (my body has NO insulin response without me telling my pump to hit me with some insulin) and as such, can eat whatever I want - I just need to take enough insulin to "deal" with the food I've eaten. In other words, it's not about "you can't eat fruit because you need insulin" - it's "I can eat fruit but I will need to take more insulin". Most Type 1's have figured out their Carb/Insulin ratio (i.e. how much insulin is required for each carb gram) which makes dosing a relatively straightforward mathematical equation from which you add or subtract depending on exercise, stress, etc., etc. Basically 8 oz of OJ is 26 carbs and 8 oz of whole milk is 12 carbs. With my Carb/Insulin ratio of 4:1 the choice between milk (3 units of insulin) or OJ (6.5 units of insulin) is a difference of 3.5 units of insulin or double the requirement. I have always been told that the holy grail of managing health with this condition is to is to keep insulin LOW, which by default means you almost always choose the lower carb option. It's not a problem to drink OJ and add fruit into the diet - it just means the amount of insulin required will increase substantially, which always sets off alarms with me.

                        A quick background on me and why I'm interested in this: I have been a Type 1 for 20 years (no "traditional" complications), I have never been overweight, I have zero of the scary "diabetes" complications (almost all of which are Type 2s #($&#(*$ up the stats), but have always had a messed up menstrual cycle and varying degrees of insulin resistance (dependent AND resistant = jackpot!). And by messed up, I mean my cycle has always been radically irregular and very scarce! I had my hormones checked and it showed high testosterone (all other values where "normal", but without an actual cycle it is hard to determine what is truly normal when those values are determined by where you are in your cycle). Desperate, I went on the pill (Yaz) to regulate my cycle and give me a monthly period. It worked for that (obviously) and while on it, I have felt very balanced. More balanced than before being on the pill. I have not experienced any of the standard side-effects (i.e. turning into a crazed bitch, gaining tons of weight, depression) I have nothing but good things to say of my experience on the pill - I balanced out (less on-edge), my boobs got fuller, and I had a very predictable period every month (yay)! With that said, I know that there are many undesirable potential health problems associated with long-term exposure to synthetic estrogen (I have been on the pill for 5 years), I know that the pill is merely a band-aid on the problem, and most importantly, if I ever want a chance at having children I need to get off the pill and figure out the problem sooner than later.

                        I have never been a SAD eater - raised by an alternative health curious mom set me off on a good path early on. I have always had a slightly negative association with carbs simply because of correlation with insulin requirement. About 6 months ago, I added sweet potatoes into my diet - every day and life suddenly became soooooooooooo much easier! I realize I was stressing myself out, trying to get enough food while ignoring an entire macro. I am completely open to the idea of including more fruit and juice in my diet (have started that already this week), but am having a very difficult time finding any feedback directly related to Type 1s. There is no "healing" your insulin response - the beta cells are dead. They can regenerate - that is not the problem. The problem is when they regenerate, the body's immune system turns the Eye of Sauron to the beta cells and kills them again. It's the rogue T-cells wrongly identifying the beta cells as "enemy". So eating fruit to heal anything is not the question - the question is: does increasing insulin intake to deal with the increase in fruit interfere or negatively effect the hormone balance? Or is it a matter of giving your body enough carbs to turn all systems on and the increased insulin is comparatively of little concern?

                        Sorry for the long post, not sure that anyone will have any input or respond, as I know the thread has been beaten to death...lol. But figured some experienced Peat folks might know something. Thank you!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KatList View Post
                          I know this thread is very old and seems to have died down - but figured I'd post my question here anyway. I'm a Type 1 diabetic (NOT Type 2 - radically different diseases), and am trying to understand how to balance Peat's recommendations (or Danny Roddy's interpretation of Peat's recommendations).

                          My main confusion is whether Peat cares about keeping insulin intake low or not. As a Type 1 (I have an insulin pump) I externally control my insulin (my body has NO insulin response without me telling my pump to hit me with some insulin) and as such, can eat whatever I want - I just need to take enough insulin to "deal" with the food I've eaten. In other words, it's not about "you can't eat fruit because you need insulin" - it's "I can eat fruit but I will need to take more insulin". Most Type 1's have figured out their Carb/Insulin ratio (i.e. how much insulin is required for each carb gram) which makes dosing a relatively straightforward mathematical equation from which you add or subtract depending on exercise, stress, etc., etc. Basically 8 oz of OJ is 26 carbs and 8 oz of whole milk is 12 carbs. With my Carb/Insulin ratio of 4:1 the choice between milk (3 units of insulin) or OJ (6.5 units of insulin) is a difference of 3.5 units of insulin or double the requirement. I have always been told that the holy grail of managing health with this condition is to is to keep insulin LOW, which by default means you almost always choose the lower carb option. It's not a problem to drink OJ and add fruit into the diet - it just means the amount of insulin required will increase substantially, which always sets off alarms with me.

                          A quick background on me and why I'm interested in this: I have been a Type 1 for 20 years (no "traditional" complications), I have never been overweight, I have zero of the scary "diabetes" complications (almost all of which are Type 2s #($&#(*$ up the stats), but have always had a messed up menstrual cycle and varying degrees of insulin resistance (dependent AND resistant = jackpot!). And by messed up, I mean my cycle has always been radically irregular and very scarce! I had my hormones checked and it showed high testosterone (all other values where "normal", but without an actual cycle it is hard to determine what is truly normal when those values are determined by where you are in your cycle). Desperate, I went on the pill (Yaz) to regulate my cycle and give me a monthly period. It worked for that (obviously) and while on it, I have felt very balanced. More balanced than before being on the pill. I have not experienced any of the standard side-effects (i.e. turning into a crazed bitch, gaining tons of weight, depression) I have nothing but good things to say of my experience on the pill - I balanced out (less on-edge), my boobs got fuller, and I had a very predictable period every month (yay)! With that said, I know that there are many undesirable potential health problems associated with long-term exposure to synthetic estrogen (I have been on the pill for 5 years), I know that the pill is merely a band-aid on the problem, and most importantly, if I ever want a chance at having children I need to get off the pill and figure out the problem sooner than later.

                          I have never been a SAD eater - raised by an alternative health curious mom set me off on a good path early on. I have always had a slightly negative association with carbs simply because of correlation with insulin requirement. About 6 months ago, I added sweet potatoes into my diet - every day and life suddenly became soooooooooooo much easier! I realize I was stressing myself out, trying to get enough food while ignoring an entire macro. I am completely open to the idea of including more fruit and juice in my diet (have started that already this week), but am having a very difficult time finding any feedback directly related to Type 1s. There is no "healing" your insulin response - the beta cells are dead. They can regenerate - that is not the problem. The problem is when they regenerate, the body's immune system turns the Eye of Sauron to the beta cells and kills them again. It's the rogue T-cells wrongly identifying the beta cells as "enemy". So eating fruit to heal anything is not the question - the question is: does increasing insulin intake to deal with the increase in fruit interfere or negatively effect the hormone balance? Or is it a matter of giving your body enough carbs to turn all systems on and the increased insulin is comparatively of little concern?

                          Sorry for the long post, not sure that anyone will have any input or respond, as I know the thread has been beaten to death...lol. But figured some experienced Peat folks might know something. Thank you!!
                          Hey I got a few questions? Does your alpha cells output glucagon 24/7? Or do they still detect high blood sugar and turn the glucagon production off when ever you've eaten a carb meal?
                          A little primal gem - My Success Story
                          Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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                          • Is this a commercial?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                              Hey I got a few questions? Does your alpha cells output glucagon 24/7? Or do they still detect high blood sugar and turn the glucagon production off when ever you've eaten a carb meal?
                              My understanding is that although still alive, they have compromised function within 1-5 years of diagnosis - as in they don't signal the liver to release glucose in response to low blood sugar, and may in fact faultily release glucagon in response to high blood sugar. I don't believe the alpha cells are pumping out glucagon 24/7, but because the feedback loop is duct-taped together with external insulin (in lieu of beta cell action), you will have periods of higher-than-normal and lower-than-normal blood glucose which will trigger out-of-sync release of glucagon from the alpha cells.

                              Terry H - I'm not sure who your question is directed to. If to me, I'm not sure what my "commercial" would be advertising...lol.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                No, thank you, Danny. My hair is thicker than ever on Primal. But I do appreciate the offer. No, I actually don't spend that much time around your blog. Other things to do.

                                Dillberry, would you just quit making so much sense!
                                Dannyroddy owned you at your own game, damn. He wasn't even trying to play word games, you were the one to start it. So emotional paleobird. You are by far the most ignorant poster in the context of biochemistry and funny thing is you don't even know it. Sugar is the primary source of fuel for human cells. You put a day molecule and a glucose molecule beside a human cell culture and it will consume the glucose. Fatty acids are used up by cells for fuel only in the absence of glucose. This is called beta oxidation, I bet you don't know what that means though. Beta oxidation is stimulated in the presence of glucagon. It's a clear indication of catabolism dominance meaning your body is breaking down. This usually occurs when you have a low nadph/nadp ration. Fatty acid synthesis is compromised because there is a shortage of calories. When you have sufficient glucose entering the cell and sufficient oxygen your cell can produce atp a lot more efficiently then in beta oxidation. You see fatty acids are beneficial to the cellular membrane, why do you want to be oxidation them? Fat stored in the body cannot be converted into energy as quickly as can glucose there is simply no argument to this. To add more to your ignorance dos you know that excess citrate is is used to synthesize fatty acids? Eating sugar will provide your body with gay but there is no mechanism in wich your body can convert lipids into glucose. So how are you going to run marathon with depleted glycogen stores? You can eat low carb if it suit you but stop embarrassing yourself around other forums with you nonsense. You never know what you are taking about and you don't even know the basics to cellular function.

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