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Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen?

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  • I've read through this entire thread and feel both confused and interested. I need to read through Danny's blog and Ray's blog. I for a better understanding of this all, I just haven't had the time yet.

    I have been primal for a year and a half after a lifetime of binge eating disorder and yo-yo dieting. Primal eating has cured my binge eating, not to say I don't over eat sometimes (non gmo popcorn, nut butters, dark chocolate). For the most part I have been low carb or very low carb, though. I even gave up fruit for about a year because that's what people on the boards recommended for weight loss. I started at 40 lbs over weight ( female 5'3 165 lbs.) and lost 20 lbs in the first 6 months and have stayed the same for a year now despite my efforts to lose more.

    I am very greatful that I lost 20 lbs without gaining it back plus some, without bingeing, etc.... very greatful. I still have 20 more to lose and after a year of staying the same I think I need to change something. I think adding fruit might be the answer and watching my calories... not that I will count them, though. Not willing to do that.

    Along with the good I also have some bad... my PMS has gotten much worse and it was already bad enoug, my depression has gotten worse and so have my migraines. I finally had to give into taking Topamax to try to control them. I just have a gut feeling that more balance is needed and fruit might help me. Before I read this I was craving strawberries like crazy.

    There were a lot of things I wanted to comment on and can't remember them all. I do want to know why the baking soda was added to the diet as a supplement? I suffer from restless leg syndrome and was once told to try baking soda, but never have. For the most part magnesium helps, but not always. The baking soda was mentioned in the link about weight loss also (Co2 Factor: Practical ways to lose fat), but no reason why.

    I hope this discussion will continue...
    Last edited by healthy11; 07-20-2012, 05:34 AM.

    Comment


    • I just found this about restless leg syndrome

      "BRUXISM / RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME
      I think it's caused by irritation and inflammation in the intestine, increasing serotonin. Starches and fibers support bacterial growth and can increase serotonin. Restless leg syndrome is another night-time reaction to bacterial overgrowth."

      From this link about Peat from Danny's site:
      Ray Peat's Brain: Building a Foundation for Better*Understanding - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Nutrition For Sex, Hair & Health

      I just don't really know what that means or how to fix it. Less starch from vegetables, more fruit? Someone above mentioned paleo as unrealistic, which I don't get when he is eating Peat- style which seams so much more restrictive... no vegetables? No fish? Chicken? Where's a good place to find out which foods are highest in PUFAs? I can't believe wild salmon isn't good for me.
      Last edited by healthy11; 07-20-2012, 05:35 AM.

      Comment


      • I read Danny's article, linked by healthy11, and I have some questions about the following quotes, which appear in that article:

        1) "Fruits provide a significant amount of protein."

        In what way do fruits provide significant protein?

        2) "Appetite should be the basic guide. When your liver has enough glycogen stored, sweet things aren't appetizing.

        How would you explain people who regularly overeat sugar and carbs? The average American eating the SAD diet likely has pretty full reserves of glycogen stored, yet most people find sweet things to be VERY appetizing.

        3) Ray is a huge proponent of milk and cheese, but what would he recommend for someone who has a casein allergy and is unable or unwilling to drink milk?

        4) I've read that we are only able to digest about 20-25 grams of fructose at a time. Is this true? If not, where would this fallacy have come from?

        Beyond Lactose Intolerance: Common Foods You May Not Digest Well and Not Even Know It! / All Body Ecology Articles

        5) Would Ray and you recommend eating tons of white sugar in place of fruit for someone with fructose malabsorption?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
          So, if I understand this right, to lose weight we should be eating very low fat and high sucrose, consuming fruit/juice every few hours?

          Also, Ray is pretty clear on the health benefits of saturated fat...but I'm having trouble seeing how to both incorporate plenty of saturated fat in the diet, while keeping fat low simultaneously to prevent fat storage in the presence of all that fructose. I read the links provided, but I couldn't really find anything that specifically addressed this - it just said to eat low fat dairy.
          Remember this?

          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          I have no idea how you reached this conclusion.
          In Danny's article describing correspondance with Ray, he confirms my question/statement that the recommendation is to consume high levels of sugar with low fat:

          "I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories."

          Ray Peat's Brain: Building a Foundation for Better*Understanding - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Nutrition For Sex, Hair & Health

          Comment


          • I have to pipe in here with my own personal experience on this. I only read the first 16 pages of this thread, so excuse me if I've missed something.

            Perhaps I'm not the target audience since I'm not diabetic nor do I have ms. I am very thin, possible pcos, primary amenorrhea (dozens of doctors couldn't give me clear reason for it), adult acne, thyroid and pituitary issues, easily fatigued, constitutional growth delay as a kid, and the list can go on.

            I have found that eating some starches and reasonable portions of fruit is perfectly fine. Heck, even necessary for me. But the rest?

            First the 85bpm thing is weird. I was measuring my heart rate recently and it was actually in the 85bpm range when I was primal, unstressed mentally and relaxed, but feeling tired all the time. Once I started exercising again. It dropped down to 75bpm at resting within a few weeks and I felt much better energy wise. I don't see how higher is better.

            I'm also surprised at the recommendation of eating sugar for people with hormonal issues.

            Eating "table sugar", cane, raw, brown, whatever, is bad. I don't care how you spin it biologically.
            I've got a fullproof way of measuring my inflammation response to foods. It shows up on my face in the next 12 hours.
            PUFA's -> cystic acne.
            White Sugar (home made cheesecake that had nothing else which wasn't primal approved) -> cystic acne
            Icecream with nothing bad in it except sugar -> cystic acne
            Bowls of cooked fruit with cream and honey drizzled on top -> Holy cow, that week my face exploded!! Never doing that again.

            I was trying gain weight, and resorted to eating 2000 calories and 150g plus of carbohydrates per day, all paleo primal sources without including grains. I started having frequent episodes of really bad hypoglycemia (nausea, dizziness, headaches, the works) every day! I became stressed physically. I could feel the shakes coming only 2-3 hours after I'd eaten, and I'd need to grab some fruit to stop them, but the insulin spike afterwards made me feel like crap and I could see my hands trembling. It was only fruit!!
            Last time I had hypoglycemia I was 15 and addicted to cookies.
            Those went away when I gave up and went back to my normal way of eating after 3 weeks of this.

            My experience over the years has pretty definitively shown me that too many carbs and the insulin "spike" is gonna mess up my system. Fruit induced or otherwise.

            I've found what works best is just eating when I'm hungry, eating reasonable amounts safe starches and fruit (seriously, I eat my fill of those with a banana and a potato + some fruits on most days, but I still wind up well under 150g of carbs per day last I counted), eating plenty of fats (animal, coconut, and olive) and I feel amazing.
            Just tested my CRP a couple of weeks ago for something unrelated and it was not detectable at <0.4.
            My art blog.

            Comment


            • i am doing better in many areas since adding fruit and sugar back into my life ala Ray Peat. i did initially gain some weight, but after cutting down on the fat a bit its slowly starting to come back off.
              Ray Peat Forum
              "A place to discuss everything Ray Peat"

              Comment


              • Some questions about starches vs. fructose:

                1) Why does Ray repeatedly mention that starches are more 'harmful' and likely to lead to weight gain if fructose is stored as liver glycogen, then converted to glucose when it's used? I don't understand how or why eating fructose in the form of fruit or sucrose in the form of table sugar would have significant benefits over eating glucose in the form of starches.

                A quote from Lyle McDonald's Body Recomposition site:

                "...dietary fructose, found primarily in fruits must first be converted to glucose (in the liver) prior to release. That is, contrary to some claims being made, free fructose is almost never found in the bloodstream in large quantities unless it was put there through infusion. Rather, dietary fructose will either be stored in the liver as glycogen (see below) before being converted to glucose and released into the bloodstream, or simply converted to glucose and released after consumption."

                2) In Lyle McDonald's UD2, he says that ultimately it doesn't matter what type of carbohydrate you use to to a carb load, but that fructose tends to give inferior results to starches/glucose because fructose is used preferentially by the liver and is not very effecient at being used to refill muscle glycogen. What's your take on this?

                A Primer on Dietary Carbohydrates | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                  , limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two,
                  gosh that sounds awful
                  Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                  SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                  Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                  2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

                  Comment


                  • Awesome results. Photo #1 reminds me of George on Seinfeld. Great photos!
                    ----------------------------------------
                    F, 48, 5'10"
                    Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                    Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                    Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dommers
                      I'm gonna go ahead and guess there are a lot of primal families who limit their childrens sugar consumption, but have the very same healthy attributes you describe.
                      might not show up now, but down the line it could.
                      Ray Peat Forum
                      "A place to discuss everything Ray Peat"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Wafaa View Post
                        Eating "table sugar", cane, raw, brown, whatever, is bad. I don't care how you spin it biologically.
                        I've got a fullproof way of measuring my inflammation response to foods. It shows up on my face in the next 12 hours.
                        PUFA's -> cystic acne.
                        White Sugar (home made cheesecake that had nothing else which wasn't primal approved) -> cystic acne
                        Icecream with nothing bad in it except sugar -> cystic acne
                        Bowls of cooked fruit with cream and honey drizzled on top -> Holy cow, that week my face exploded!! Never doing that again.
                        .
                        Cut out the dairy. That's what making you burst with acne
                        Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

                        Comment


                        • Wondering how ChocoTaco is doing with adding more fruit?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
                            Cut out the dairy. That's what making you burst with acne
                            Dairy never makes me have acne...

                            Eating sugar makes my skin act nuts though... dry patches but with crazy oil too, and lots of small acne bumps...
                            I ate lots of fruit last week (more than normal, ate fruit pretty much every day)... cause sometimes I feel like it... and I don't fear it...
                            That was the ONLY difference in my diet... the fruit...
                            But I'm paying for it now, and I really need to be more moderate so that I don't have negative side effects.

                            Scale went up a couple pounds and I got crappy skin and acne. Yay.

                            I use the same raw milk products all the time in the same amounts... zero skin issues.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                              I ate lots of fruit last week (more than normal, ate fruit pretty much every day)...

                              I really need to be more moderate so that I don't have negative side effects.
                              What is a moderate amount of fruit for you? One serving a day? A couple of servings a week?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by healthy11 View Post
                                What is a moderate amount of fruit for you? One serving a day? A couple of servings a week?
                                2-3 servings a week...
                                Generally berries, black cherries, a banana here and there, or a plantain cooked for starch at dinner.

                                I got my hands on huge stash of mangoes... and, well, that went up to 2-3 servings per day(displaced some of my Veg).
                                Me and the fruit need to get back on friendly... less obsessive... terms again.
                                Eating that much fruit makes me hungry, and then I want more fruit.

                                If I was at goal weight I would be a little more lax and eat fruit more often, daily even... except for the bad skin.
                                It really does make me feel really dry/itchy and really oily at the same time.
                                And the little zits. Bleh.
                                “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                                ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                                And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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