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Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen?

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  • Originally posted by Wheat&Pufas View Post
    So it's irrelevant because those are "growth stages." Ok end of discussion. Your right. Your right just because you said it's irrelevant. So let's never look at those things again because they are "irrelevant.' I don't think they are. The Maasai drink a lot of milk at certain points in the year (a lot of cultures drink milk and are fine), and the Kitavans eat a lot of starch and they are both fine. And there are others who eat fruits and starchy tubers who are fine too. I think that's all the evidence I need to see that it's not a problem.

    Oh, boy here we go with the Kitivans and the Maasai, Again. First of all, Primal is not necessarily low carb. How many times does this have to be said? The Kitivans are just like Choco with the sweet potatoes. Not a problem. The Maasai cows' milk is A2 dairy which is much more readily utilized by the human body (like goat's milk). Again, I have no problem with dairy. That is an individual choice. I was objecting to the OJ and Milk with sugar added Peat-ism.

    Right now I am trying to do Peat-ism/Lita Lee-ism to the fullest. It seems to be working so far. LC Paleo wasn't working for me. I just didn't feel good. I think it was too much muscle meats (tryptophan) without the balancing gelatin, and not enough sugar. By the way, don't you know that too much protein also stimulates insulin? That right there is also enough evidence for me to see that the whole sugar-insulin spike/blood sugar idea and that is harmful is BS.

    Gelatin is great stuff. I eat it often. And, yes I did know that about protein. I'm glad you are finding something that is working for you. LC is not for everyone. I never said it was.

    I have a very open mind and I am not dogmatic. Paleobird, you seem very dogmatic. You joined this forum in Dec. of 2010, right when MS was getting popular. I remember because that's when I got into it too, late 2010. So assuming that you've been full blown MS for around 1 year and a half, has everything really been as spectacular as you say? I'm not trying to be ride I just want you to be honest about how long you really have been primal.

    You will probably respond and say that you've been doing it longer than a year and a half but just be honest.

    Why would I be anything other than honest? If you would like to see what Primal has done for me, take a look at today's Friday Success Story. That's me. I have been doing low carb since January 1, 2009. You can read all the details.

    I'm not saying that Peat is 100% right but he has blown me away with his views on so many things. Here are some:

    EPA and DHA are not essential and they are actually harmful like all PUFA's. He says that the studies done by George Burr and his wife in 1929 that are supposed to show that they are essential never actually show them to be essential. This is huge! And everyone always references those studies done by the Burr's. Well, since I stopped taking Cod Liver Oil, Borage Oil, and Evening Primrose Oil, (at different times) I feel much much better! No wonder I felt like crap taking flaxseed oil too, they are all PUFA's.

    Come on, from a Primal prospective, why the hell would I go find some black currant, borage, evening primrose, flax, hemp seeds, squeeze the liver of cod to get the oil, or squeeze any other fish for it's oil and swallow some? Seems like another way for companies to make money off of BS. Like turing crap into gold like grape seeds. "Hey, instead of throwing all those seeds of grapes that are used for wine and other things, lets crush them to get the oil and sell it as another heart-healthy oil! We will make tons of money!" Just like fluoride, a natural but toxic compound that is the by product of the aluminum mining industry, and instead of paying toxic disposal fees lets convince everyone that this stuff will prevent you form getting cavaties. There are some other "crap into gold" things too.

    I never took any of those supplemental oils and totally agree that they are not needed. What I can't agree with Peat about however is saying that we should avoid fish because of the PUFAs. C'mon. That's over the top.

    Also, Peat's views on Serotonin. He say's it's not the "feel-good" chemical but in fact it's just the opposite. And his views on many other hormones.

    His views on living at a high altitude, the benefits on Co2, the dangers of too much iron, the benefits of gelatin, too much reading can be harmful and his views on diabetes and sugar, which he has references to showing that diabetics do better with sugar. Sounds crazy but so did "saturated fat is good for you and doesn't clog your arteries, salt doesn't cause HBP, soy is not a health food."

    Taking a contrarian stance just to be contrarian makes no sense. Sometimes conventional wisdom really does have some wisdom in it. I deal with diabetes daily because I take care of my diabetic Dad. Giving a diabetic a soda is not a good idea unless all you want is to collect on their insurance policy. My Dad is doing great on Primal.

    So white sugar and soda does sound crazy but, maybe, just maybe he could be right? And what if he is right that sugar is not harmful and that really you can't blame sugar when people with problems are eating lots of other things and doing things like PUFAs, wheat, soy, processed junk, carageenan, alcohol, toxic stuff from soaps, deodorants, shampoo, laundry detergent and fabric softeners, those little things that everyone has in their house that they plug-in to make it smell "good" (poison dispensers), being too sedentary, EMF's, cell phones, microwaves, sleep, attitude/worldview, financial situation, high iron, high estrogen, high prolactin, high serotonin, lack of digestion, eating non digestible GMO foods, not donating blood, not having a good sex life, air quality, radiation from x-rays, etc, etc, etc.

    I totally agree that all those fake/toxic/stressful thing are bad. No argument. Going for real foods and really having fun with life is the whole point of Primal. That doesn't let sugar off the hook however.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
      @Hawkward,

      Do you honestly think I have time to read their material, watch videos, and counter every point brought up?

      Can't they simplify my life and provide their own critiques based on their self-proclaimed knowledge about physiology?
      OMG...he actually did say this? Wow...You went down many pegs my man. I'm not interested in debating this nonsense....Good luck in life.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        OMG...he actually did say this? Wow...You went down many pegs my man. I'm not interested in debating this nonsense....Good luck in life.
        Yep, he did. And I agree with you, Neckhammer.

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        • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          Yes, your latter assessment is correct. Coconut oil is a useful cooking tool, but it's not "food" in the sense that you should be consuming hundreds of calories worth of it. Cooking your eggs in coconut oil or adding a pat of butter to your sweet potato is a great idea. Taking a tablespoon to your tub of coconut oil or blending 80 grams of butter in your coffee is a terrible idea unless you have a major gut candida issue, you're on a ketogenic diet to suppress seizures, you're an advanced mountain climber or you have some other really, really good reason. Normal people with office jobs should not be doing these things!!! It's all about context. If you're not going to eat sugar by the bagful, you probably shouldn't eat oil by the tubful. It's a similar principle. Empty calories are empty calories.
          What if we do it to add calories? I should apparently be eating another 600-800 calories. I'm not a fan of meat and can't up my carbs, only way I can think to do that is fat, or in this case, coconut oil. Would that be okay?

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          • I don't understand the point in supplementing with sugar like adding refined sugar to your food. If sugar somehow improves your health, why not just eat more fruit?

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            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Yep, he did. And I agree with you, Neckhammer.
              The guy indulged you for over 50 pages but refusing to read a link (why don't you give him the damn highlights?) is what made you decide to pack up your toys and go home? Are you for real?
              Last edited by Gilleh; 07-14-2012, 12:21 AM.
              Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rasputina View Post
                Hah!!!
                ...?
                Someone needs to call her therapist?
                Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

                Comment


                • Hi Danny,

                  how low is it safe to go with for fat? I know you have provided macro percentages, but I am restricting calories at the moment in order to loose fat; I don't want to go higher than 2200 cals and to do this whilst fitting to 50/25/25 carb/protein/fat I have to drop my fat intake to 60grams per day, isn't this too low? How much fat do you eat? thanks

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
                    The guy indulged you for over 50 pages ....?
                    Again silly....he "indulged" nothing. He is a poster here just like everyone else. The thread and forum started without his contribution and will move on the same. And if you Gilleh would read the link you would understand why you cant break it down to a summary. It is math.
                    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-14-2012, 05:54 AM.

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                    • DannyRoddy - Don't be discouraged. Your visit here has been worthwhile to many and this thread, except for the childish back and forth, will be great for people who search for Ray Peat/Danny Roddy/Sugar in the future. You can bet if Mark Sisson posts a blog entitled "Sugar may Actually Increase Metabolism" that all these naysayers would quickly be on board.

                      Ray Peat is highly respected in many circles and I really appreciate you stopping by here to try to explain it to us.

                      I have found good reading at Start Here - Nutrition For Sex, Hair & Health
                      and Ray Peat

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                      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Again silly....he "indulged" nothing. He is a poster here just like everyone else. The thread and forum started without his contribution and will move on the same. And if you Gilleh would read the link you would understand why you cant break it down to a summary. It is math.
                        The other possibility is that he really did take a look at that link and saw the gaping holes in Peat's argument. It's not easy reading but well worth it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          DannyRoddy - Don't be discouraged. Your visit here has been worthwhile to many and this thread, except for the childish back and forth, will be great for people who search for Ray Peat/Danny Roddy/Sugar in the future. You can bet if Mark Sisson posts a blog entitled "Sugar may Actually Increase Metabolism" that all these naysayers would quickly be on board.

                          Ray Peat is highly respected in many circles and I really appreciate you stopping by here to try to explain it to us.
                          Not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
                          Ray Peat is well respected at raypeat.com.

                          Comment


                          • I've read through this whole thread with great interest. I've been hoping a discussion like this would open up here! I started out my health journey with MDA and the Primal Blueprint, and have been seeing good results from incorperating some of Peat's ideas in the last 4 months.

                            I have MS, and while the PB seems helpful for overall health, I didn't find anything that was helpful particularly for my condition. I also bought into the low-carb craze for awhile, and stuck to it even when it was obviously hurting me. I'm thankful that I found Danny Roddy and Matt Stone's blogs, to give me the kick in the butt I needed to look objectivly at how I was feeling, and that it might be due to my diet, in spite of the fact that I was convinced it was a cure-all. Now I feel a bit silly for trying to push it on everyone I knew...:-P Which is why these days, when someone asks me "what to do" about some health issue, I'm much more likely to try to initiate an open discussion about health, whole foods and metabolism in general, and what they feel works for them, instead of telling them that any specific diet is the answer.

                            Ray Peat has a few articles written specifically about MS, that I found super interesting. Also, it is just helpful to understand that healing yourself should be thought about from more of an outside-in perspective. I do still feel that observing healthy societies (a la paleo and WAPF) has its merits, and that we can learn things about being healthy from them. And in regards to the comments argueing about Peat saying sugar is good--that is kind of taking the focus away from what he is actually about. What I took away from his articles, relating to sugar (like the grainey white stuff, not fruit), is that it is sometimes helpful as a supplement, and as a stand-in when good, ripe fruit isn't available, but that fruit is almost ALWAYS better.

                            I would also love to hear Danny's comments on that ketosis article that was posted; mostly because I lack the knowladge (and mathmatical brain) necesarry to decipher it myself. I think those who were commenting that the person who posted it should have posted a synopsis in thier own words, instead of just a link, was meaning that if you feel that that article illustrates your point so well, you must understand it well enough to tell other people about it, otherwise how are you so sure that it is true and good science? I think I read somewhere that "you only truely understand something complex, when you are able to explain it simply." Or something to that effect ;-)

                            I hope this discussion/debate keeps up, because I think even though we all have differing viewpoints, we can still learn alot from each other. The point isn't to convince others to come around to your way of thinking, necesarrily. The point is to learn!!! :-D
                            My etsy shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/UrthForged
                            *hand-carved wood and bone jewelry*

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting this, Neckhammer. This guy basically proves mathematically that extracting energy from fat is a much more efficient process when compared to glucose and creates less oxidative stress in the process.
                              Hate to quote myself but evidently Ika missed this. This is a summary of the "take away" of what was in that link. If you, or Danny would like the details, feel free to read.

                              Also, one more time, Primal=/=ultra low carb all the time for everyone. There is a wide spectrum of healthy carb intakes.

                              Nobody is "taking the focus" away from the other things Peat has to say such as lower your PUFAs and don't eat junk because we agree on all that. And nobody here objects to real fruit as a part of a Primal diet. Chugging refined sugar is where we part ways so that is what gets discussed.

                              Have you seen Dr. Terry Wahl's TEDTalk about Minding your mitochondria? Her MS journey is nothing short of inspirational. I wish you well in your health struggles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
                              Last edited by Paleobird; 07-14-2012, 02:47 PM. Reason: add working link

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                              • I haven't bailed....

                                I don't have Internet right now and typing on my phone isn't that fun.

                                I get Internet installed next week and will have a chance to answer questions.
                                www.dannyroddy.com

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