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Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen?

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  • Originally posted by bopfer View Post
    That was on a SAD diet though, right? I would say it's the PUFA+sugar combo that causes those issues (plus possible genetic traits). I can easily go 16 hours(dinner to lunch) if I need to, even on a Peat diet. I have done it several times when needing to fast for a blood draw. But, I am not going to put my body through that stress any more than I have to.
    I'm an example of someone who never ate on the SAD. I went from healthy clean food that was low fat/high carb/minimal protein to healthy clean food that was low carb/higher fat/moderate protein when I went Primal. So none of the changes in me can be blamed on the bad oils.

    Fasting is not at all stressful on a fat burning metabolism that has reserves to tap. I can see how it would be massively stressful to a sugar burner.

    A fat burning state does exist. Many live there happily. I'm sorry if you never found it but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

    Perhaps eating six times a day may have been part of the reason you never experienced this for yourself.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 07-10-2012, 10:45 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      It still says nothing about HOW.
      Search "cytomel" and "body building" in google. Body builders have used cytomel (T3) for years to "cut"—shed weight before contests.

      I don't think I need to explain that cortisol makes losing weight rather difficult due to its anti-metabolic effects—same goes for all the stress hormones—they suppress the ability of the cell to produce energy.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      You keep focusing on "restoring the metabolic rate". This sounds a lot like the slim-fast shake plan, lots of protein, calcium, and sugar with very little fat administered on a frequent basis.
      Are you familiar with what the metabolic rate is? The rate at which one burns calories?

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Many people, not just me, have found that lower carbs and/or slower carbs such as sweet potatoes work well in combination with adequate protein and higher fat. They have found that this gives them a constant metabolic rate, without the roller coaster ride of a sugar burning metabolism.
      Efficiently storing glycogen would allow one to not eat for ~24 hours without needing stress hormones to compensate for the lack of glucose.

      If someone has a "roller coaster ride" when consuming a lot of fruit (or white sugar) it means their ability to store glycogen has been compromised (excessive stress, low thyroid, poor liver function), not that they need to eat a high-fat diet.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      But of course you know all of this. No wait you wouldn't. You haven't read Mark Sisson's book.
      You've suggested several times that I would learn "a thing or two" if I read Sisson's book, but if this chart is in his book, it sounds like you don't even agree with it.

      The Primal Blueprint Diagrams | Mark's Daily Apple

      If this chart was accurate, Durianrider would be beyond obese.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      If a plan is going to displace a lot of nutritionally dense foods with calorically dense but nutritionally sparse ones, that is cause for concern.
      Milk, eggs, liver, coffee, seafood, red meat, and orange juice are "nutritionally sparse"?

      Without T3 and progesterone you're unable to retain magnesium. Without carbon dioxide, the cell loses magnesium/potassium and takes up calcium/sodium. Without T3 you cannot use vitamin A (retinol) and you cannot convert beta carotene to vitamin A.

      Orange juice & supplemental white sugar increase T3.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Reducing calories is less stressful when you reduce carbs first.
      @paleobird please explain this statement without using the vacant phrases "sugar burner", "fat burner", or "dual burner".

      Instead give us your personal insights on cortisol, adrenaline, ACTH, and the other hormones you told me you were familiar with.

      Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
      Adrenaline, ACTH, and various other hormones are involved in mobilizing fat when liver glycogen is insufficient.

      Are you familiar with these hormones and their functions?
      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post

      Yes.
      Last edited by dannyroddy; 07-11-2012, 10:38 AM.
      www.dannyroddy.com

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      • Originally posted by dannyroddy View Post
        You've suggested several times that I would learn "a thing or two" if I read Sisson's book, but if this chart is in his book, it sounds like you don't even agree with it.

        The Primal Blueprint Diagrams | Mark's Daily Apple

        If this chart was accurate, Durianrider would beyond obese.
        I've read the book. It goes on and on about being a sugar burner vs. a fat burning beast. The book does a poor job of adequately explaining why specific foods or food groups are bad. It places too much emphasis on removing processed foods, sugar, and eating organic, grassfed, sustainable, local foods and all the other bullshit I'm sure you hear living in San Francisco versus actually eliminating foods that cause a large amount of damage to the body, such as wheat and PUFAs.

        Of course the carbohydrate pyramid is a joke. Half the book sucks. This is why the rest of the health and fitness community has such a low opinion of primal and paleo. Sure, whole grains and tofu aren't good for you, but that material is hidden behind rows and rows of pure misinformation.
        Last edited by SteakNchop; 07-11-2012, 01:23 AM.

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        • Danny Roddy

          Why did you go 0 carb for 2 years?
          Life. Be in it.

          Comment


          • I'm really interested in Peats ideas. I was low carb for a few months (not strict as I had a few high carb days, and not intentionally, I just don't like many high carb foods). But now my hair is falling out in clumps, and I stopped menstruating a few months ago. Not really something that should happen when I'm 19. I increased my carbs for the last 2-3 months but nothing changed, and I was healthy before. I guessed this was thyroid related but I didn't want to think it was caused by my change in diet( I really enjoy eating this way) so I want to try some of Peats ideas to fix this.
            “There is immeasurably more left inside than what comes out in words…”
            — Fyodor Dostoevsky

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            • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              I don't think it's untrue. I think she's uncomfortable with the subject being discussed here. There's a whole lot here that I don't agree with and don't understand, but I'm interested in learning because Danny is much better researched than I am. Even if he's not totally correct, he's surely correct about some things, so I want to learn a new approach. I feel she'd prefer the thread not exist than challenge what she's comfortable with. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I believe. I wouldn't say I'm trolling her. She takes shots at me, I take shots at her - it's a thing we have, and honestly we both deserve it half of the time because we both completely lack tact. Deep down we probably both enjoy it. There's nothing else better to do at 11:30pm on a Tuesday night. I mean what am I gonna do, sleep?

              You'd be surprised how many people on this site think calories don't matter and it's "all about insulin." Mark used to promote that idea liberally and is just recently starting to come around on calories. Before, this site was populated by people that read Taubes, and the answer to weight loss was to "add more fat" - seriously, wrap your head around that: if you're not losing body fat, add more oil to what you're eating. That is what I truly believed for the first 4-6 months when I started the PB. The forum has become a lot more carb and calorie friendly over the past year and a half. It used to not be this way.

              I prefer a more isocaloric approach. I feel and preform best with an even amount of fat and carbohydrate. If I had to define how I eat, I'd say 30/40/30 fat/protein/carbs. When I first started I used to be 60/30/10.
              This is exactly it. People want to defend to "Primal Canon" and don't realize that it changes. Mark, to his credit, changes primal, slowly but surely. Much of that change is spurred by threads like this.
              Lifting Journal

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              • Originally posted by SteakNchop View Post
                I've read the book. It goes on and on about being a sugar burner vs. a fat burning beast. The book does a poor job of adequately explaining why specific foods or food groups are bad. It places too much emphasis on removing processed foods, sugar, and eating organic, grassfed, sustainable, local foods and all the other bullshit I'm sure you hear living in San Francisco versus actually eliminating foods that cause a large amount of damage to the body, such as wheat and PUFAs.

                Of course the carbohydrate pyramid is a joke. Half the book sucks. This is why the rest of the health and fitness community has such a low opinion of primal and paleo. Sure, whole grains and tofu aren't good for you, but that material is hidden behind rows and rows of pure misinformation.
                I really wish Mark would release a newer, better version. His blog posts have caught up, now his book needs to. I don't know why he doesn't, it would generate tons of cash. Hopefully he's working on it.
                Lifting Journal

                Comment


                • There's something I'm having a hard time understanding.

                  For most of my life, I overall ate healthy foods (raw local dairy, vegetables, fruits, virgin olive oil, fish, etc...) but I've ALSO always eaten a high level of sugar and salt - and in all those years of eating very high levels of sugar and moderate levels of salt, I still had all the hypothyroid symptoms I have now, with totally normal thyroid levels on my bloodwork.

                  In fact, even with eating tons of sugar and plenty of salt, my blood pressure and pulse were always at the low end of normal, and a body temperature that was consistently extremely low.

                  I'm wondering what Ray or Danny would suggest for someone who continues to have hypothyroid symptoms (extremely low body temps, cold hands/feet, extreme sensitivity to cold, thinning hair, low metabolism, etc..) when eating high levels of salt and sugar don't seem to make a difference in these symptoms.

                  I am just starting to raise my body temperature to a more normal range using cold thermogenesis. (Previously my basal temp was 96.7 upon waking, in the low 97s during the day, and is now at 98.1)

                  I haven't found any articles where Ray discusses using this method for improving thyroid and metabolism. Wondering if it could be just as good or better than sugar and salt, since it seems to be working for me, whereas a diet high in sugar and salt didn't.
                  Last edited by BestBetter; 07-11-2012, 09:38 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by They call me BUTTLOCK View Post
                    Are you using the gelatin sold normally in stores, or something like this:: Great Lakes Unflavored Gelatin, Kosher: Grocery & Gourmet Food.

                    I have 4 canisters of those, and after using a bit ... I don't think they would work in your recipe, haha. Very stinky, not exactly flavorless.
                    I buy Knox unflavored gelatin. It's right next to the Jello in the grocery store. I think it's around $1.49 for a 3 pack container. I keep them on hand to make ice cream. No smell.
                    Originally posted by bopfer View Post
                    It's irrelevant how many times one eats per day. I ate 6 times a day when eating paleo and SAD. I do have days where I only eat 3 times, but most of the time it's 5 or 6. I feel better that way no matter the diet.
                    I don't believe that. Martin Berkhan has shown pretty definitively that, at least for men, smaller feeding periods and less meals with the same caloric totals provide better results. They consistently have less issues with "stubborn fat" because the longer fasting periods increase the oxidation of alpha-2 receptors, which is the notoriously hard fat to get rid of (bellybutton fat on men and thigh fat on women). In addition, since Ray Peat is all about minimizing stress on the body, I'm not sure how you could support so much eating and stressing the digestive system so much. You are constantly walking around with elevated insulin and blood glucose, never giving yourself time to normalize and never giving your digestive system a break until you're asleep. Humans weren't made to snack all day. We are not cows, we are not grazers.
                    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-11-2012, 09:53 AM.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                    • BestBetter, when you say you've always eaten lots of salt, is that iodized salt?
                      LastBottleWines

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                      • Originally posted by Apex Predator View Post
                        This is exactly it. People want to defend to "Primal Canon" and don't realize that it changes. Mark, to his credit, changes primal, slowly but surely. Much of that change is spurred by threads like this.
                        I like Paleobird. She's very smart, very experienced and sticks to her guns. She's not afraid to stand her ground and I respect her for that. In a lot of ways we're a lot alike, and it gets us into trouble. She knows what works well for her, so she's naturally stubborn and resistant to change when she's had so much success. It's understandable.

                        I'm a bit younger so I'm probably by definition more open-minded and more open to change. I'm at the point in my life where experimentation is still fun. The issue with being open-minded is you can't be so open-minded you let your brains leak out.

                        The issue with The Primal Blueprint is we KNOW it works very well, and CW is so incredibly ass-backwards with nutrition we lose faith in all things CW. It's tough to meter it. Because of the PB, I'm wary of all conventional wisdom, but the fact is conventional wisdom is so because it's typically correct. Nutrition is just where it's horribly, horribly wrong. It's totally fine to be skeptical - mild skepticism is healthy. How do you stay skeptical and at the same time be open-minded and not stubborn? If ANYONE can walk that line I'll be very impressed. I don't think it's been done by a mortal.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Belforte View Post
                          Danny Roddy

                          Why did you go 0 carb for 2 years?
                          I believe I can answer that. He started losing his hair and believed a ketogenic diet would help combat his hair loss.

                          Correct me if I'm wrong, Danny.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • Danny, I'm very interested in what you think of a supplement like this:

                            Vitacost Thyroid Complex

                            Supplement Facts
                            Serving Size: 2 Capsules
                            Servings per Container: 50

                            Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg 1667%
                            Iodine (as potassium iodide) 200 mcg 133%
                            Magnesium (as Magnesium oxide) 200 mg 50%
                            Zinc (as zinc gluconate) 6 mg 40%
                            Copper (as copper gluconate) 300 mcg 15%
                            Manganese (as maganese gluconate) 2.3 mg 115%
                            Molybdenum (as amino acid chelate) 100 mcg 133%
                            L-Tyrosine 248 mg *
                            Glandular Complex
                            (bovine) (liver, pancreatin 4X, spleen, kidney, lung and adrenal tissue) 70 mg
                            Thyroid Powder (thyroxin free) 8 mg *

                            Other Ingredients: Gelatin (capsule), cellulose, stearic acid, magnesium stearate and silicon dioxide.
                            Contains: Soy.


                            Virtually everything nowadays contains soy...hopefully it's so minimal an amount it won't matter. It's very inexpensive and I'd be interested in trying it. I have to place an order soon as I'm running low on kelp and stevia.

                            Why the L-Tyrosine? I know you don't care for tryptophan and cystine, but is tyrosine beneficial?
                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-11-2012, 10:15 AM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                              There's something I'm having a hard time understanding.

                              For most of my life, I overall ate healthy foods (raw local dairy, vegetables, fruits, virgin olive oil, fish, etc...) but I've ALSO always eaten a high level of sugar and salt - and in all those years of eating very high levels of sugar and moderate levels of salt, I still had all the hypothyroid symptoms I have now, with totally normal thyroid levels on my bloodwork.

                              In fact, even with eating tons of sugar and plenty of salt, my blood pressure and pulse were always at the low end of normal, and a body temperature that was consistently extremely low.

                              I'm wondering what Ray or Danny would suggest for someone who continues to have hypothyroid symptoms (extremely low body temps, cold hands/feet, extreme sensitivity to cold, thinning hair, low metabolism, etc..) when eating high levels of salt and sugar don't seem to make a difference in these symptoms.

                              I am just starting to raise my body temperature to a more normal range using cold thermogenesis. (Previously my basal temp was 96.7 upon waking, in the low 97s during the day, and is now at 98.1)

                              I haven't found any articles where Ray discusses using this method for improving thyroid and metabolism. Wondering if it could be just as good or better than sugar and salt, since it seems to be working for me, whereas a diet high in sugar and salt didn't.
                              Check your copper and selenium. You may be deficient. This sounds like classic copper deficiency to me. Or just try a cheap copper supplement.

                              http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-albion-chelated-copper

                              It's $2 for God's sake. You have nothing to lose

                              Other Ingredients: Rice flour, gelatin (capsule) and magnesium stearate.

                              It's pretty clean.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hawkward View Post
                                BestBetter, when you say you've always eaten lots of salt, is that iodized salt?
                                As a kid, up through college age, I was eating iodized processed salt. By the time I was in my early 20s I had switched to the gray, damp celtic sea salt, which I used pretty consistently until now (I use the pink himalayan salt). However, this was supplemented with plenty of the iodized sodium chloride stuff in the form of potato chips or other processed snacks that were included in my diet.

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