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  • Too much protein?

    Is there such thing as too much protein? Does gluconeogenesis only kick in in when there is a shortage of carbs, or does it also happen when your body gets too much protein and cannot utilize it all as amino acids?

    Particularly curious if there is a recommended grams of protein per lb/lean muscle for someone who is stuck in sedentary mode (such as during a long recovery where even light walking is out of the question).

  • #2
    I'm no genius, but I'd definitely think reducing protein intake would be wise if sedentary. Depending on your lean mass and weight, you'd probably need half what you would if active. I mean, half of all macros! If you burn 3500 calories walking around, and only 1700 calories sitting in a chair, then eating less makes a whole lot of sense.
    Crohn's, doing SCD

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    • #3
      Even if you are not running sprints right now, your body still needs protein when in healing mode to repair damaged tissues etc.
      I think knifegill is right about just bringing the overall quantity of food down but keeping the ratios about the same.
      What are you recovering from? I'm concerned for your welfare not just nosey.

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      • #4
        From what I have read, too much protein is only an issue if you have kidney problems. If not it shouldn't cause problems. How much protein are you really eating that you think it could be a problem?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          Even if you are not running sprints right now, your body still needs protein when in healing mode to repair damaged tissues etc.
          I think knifegill is right about just bringing the overall quantity of food down but keeping the ratios about the same.
          What are you recovering from? I'm concerned for your welfare not just nosey.
          I had three major strokes this winter. Entirely lost the use of the right side of my body. Prior to the stroke I had lost some 50 odd pounds and dropped 6 pants sizes on primal.

          During my initial recovery I put almost all that weight back on in two months continuing my regular primal eating habits (sadly -yes - at roughly the same calorie count I was used to when active). Then, as I began to actually recover and was able get around a bit again, I ended up dropping 30 of those regained pounds.

          Doc scolded me when she found out how I did it . . . but I mean this in the nicest way possible when I say, Fuck her. I recovered some six months faster than her earliest prediction and regained the full use of everything when everyone from the neurosurgeon to my physical therapists warned me I probably never would.

          So it's a quiet little irony that I manage to throw my back out at work this week and just don't want to have another weight gain relapse while I can't get around.

          And for any primal haters listening in, no, living primal didn't cause my stroke. Uncontrolled high blood pressure coupled with a decade of plaque damage leftover from my diabetes caused the strokes. Diabetes has been under control since I first went primal but the damage was done. BP is now finally under control with a cocktail of pills I hope to be able to get off of whenever I finally reach my goal weight.
          Last edited by brahnamin; 06-27-2012, 03:14 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
            I had three major strokes this winter. Entirely lost the use of the right side of my body. Prior to the stroke I had lost some 50 odd pounds and dropped 6 pants sizes on primal.

            During my initial recovery I put almost all that weight back on in two months continuing my regular primal eating habits (sadly -yes - at roughly the same calorie count I was used to when active). Then, as I began to actually recover and was able get around a bit again, I ended up dropping 30 of those regained pounds.

            Doc scolded me when she found out how I did it . . . but I mean this in the nicest way possible when I say, Fuck her. I recovered some six months faster than her earliest prediction and regained the full use of everything when everyone from the neurosurgeon to my physical therapists warned me I probably never would.

            So it's a quiet little irony that I manage to throw my back out at work this week and just don't want to have another weight gain relapse while I can't get around.

            And for any primal haters listening in, no, living primal didn't cause my stroke. Uncontrolled high blood pressure coupled with a decade of plaque damage leftover from my diabetes caused the strokes. Diabetes has been under control since I first went primal but the damage was done. BP is now finally under control with a cocktail of pills I hope to be able to get off of whenever I finally reach my goal weight.
            I doubt that anyone is going to attribute three strokes to primal when you had only been eating that way for a tiny fraction of your life.

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            • #7
              Hey, sounds like you've got your head on straight! Good luck with your continued recovery and improving health. And it ain't to hard to find a Primal friendly chiro.....just sayin

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              • #8
                Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                I had three major strokes this winter. Entirely lost the use of the right side of my body. Prior to the stroke I had lost some 50 odd pounds and dropped 6 pants sizes on primal.

                During my initial recovery I put almost all that weight back on in two months continuing my regular primal eating habits (sadly -yes - at roughly the same calorie count I was used to when active). Then, as I began to actually recover and was able get around a bit again, I ended up dropping 30 of those regained pounds.

                Doc scolded me when she found out how I did it . . . but I mean this in the nicest way possible when I say, Fuck her. I recovered some six months faster than her earliest prediction and regained the full use of everything when everyone from the neurosurgeon to my physical therapists warned me I probably never would.

                So it's a quiet little irony that I manage to throw my back out at work this week and just don't want to have another weight gain relapse while I can't get around.

                And for any primal haters listening in, no, living primal didn't cause my stroke. Uncontrolled high blood pressure coupled with a decade of plaque damage leftover from my diabetes caused the strokes. Diabetes has been under control since I first went primal but the damage was done. BP is now finally under control with a cocktail of pills I hope to be able to get off of whenever I finally reach my goal weight.
                No wonder you've been AWOL. I'm so sorry you went through that but so glad that you are coming back out on the other side and strong again. You can get past a tweaked back. You've already survived much worse and are still ticking.

                Yep, just keep the portions sensible and give yourself all the time you need to really heal. [[[[[[[HUGS]]]]]]]]

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                  I doubt that anyone is going to attribute three strokes to primal when you had only been eating that way for a tiny fraction of your life.
                  Yeah, that parting shot was more for the trolls who come in here looking for any niggling little detail with which to bash PB.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                    Is there such thing as too much protein? Does gluconeogenesis only kick in in when there is a shortage of carbs, or does it also happen when your body gets too much protein and cannot utilize it all as amino acids?

                    Particularly curious if there is a recommended grams of protein per lb/lean muscle for someone who is stuck in sedentary mode (such as during a long recovery where even light walking is out of the question).
                    In Loren Cordain’s new book, he states that “protein is toxic above 35 percent of a person’s daily calories.” I think the problem is at some point your protein is high enough that you mathematically won't have enough fat to process it properly.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jnicholas View Post
                      In Loren Cordain’s new book, he states that “protein is toxic above 35 percent of a person’s daily calories.” I think the problem is at some point your protein is high enough that you mathematically won't have enough fat to process it properly.
                      This is beyond stupid. So if I am eating say 1500 calories and 130 grams of protein it will be toxic? But if I bump my calories up to 3000 and eat 200 grams of protein, its not toxic? Where is the logic in that? Where is Cordain's evidence...I will give you a hint...it doesn't exist.

                      Edit: his stance isn't as simplified as "35% of calories"...here is a link to him talking about it:

                      http://thepaleodiet.com/archives/3832

                      And for the evidence against this:

                      http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

                      Protein toxicity is only an issue if you have already damaged kidneys.
                      Last edited by jimhensen; 06-28-2012, 08:11 AM.

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                      • #12
                        A review of issues of dietary p... [Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
                        LastBottleWines

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                        • #13
                          Also gluconeogenesis isn't a particularly fast process. Carbohydrates are really the only macro that can significantly alter one's glycogen level and prevent glycogen depletion. Excess protein does contribute to overall calories, but I would be much more concerned about being protein deficient than having too much given a non-excessive caloric intake.
                          http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                            Particularly curious if there is a recommended grams of protein per lb/lean muscle for someone who is stuck in sedentary mode (such as during a long recovery where even light walking is out of the question).
                            Figures vary. Most low carb experts suggest something like 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of lean bodymass. There are a number of problems that seem to be associated with over-consumption of protein. Dr. Rosedale lists those:

                            http://drrosedale.com/resources/pdf/...d-The-Ugly.pdf

                            Equally, too little is unlikely to be a good idea. Psychological and emotional problems tend to occur much more frequently with vegetarians, and that ought to be a warning. You can't make neurotransmitters without enough protein.

                            At somewhere between 1 and 1.5 g per kg of of lean bodymass a day, I should think you'd be clear of either too little or too much. Maybe go nearer the bottom of the range, if you're sedentary. As you say, what you're not using for repair will only be burnt.

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