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  • #76
    Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
    Comparing trans fats and cigarettes to grains is laughable. There have been TONS of studies on grains and they don't show that they are bad. You could say they are all a big conspiracy, but is that really the logical explanation? Or you could come up with some other round about way of rationalizing all the studies that disagree with you.
    Sure. Pot is illigal because of us cotton industrie (even in us states that allow it for medical reason it's prohibited by federal law) there are enought studys who talk about the bad effects. Like there are studys linking Justing Biber to high colesterol.
    I have never seen any study saying grains are good for you. On the other hand there is some linking. When ever there are school shootings politicians say it is because of first person shooters. Its not, all people who have commited the crime of school shootings have eat bread. It's the bread that makes the youth go crazy.
    Transfats ,cigaretts, creationism, whole grains it takes time to cure dogmas. And yes it is a conspiracy. A necessary evil. Because we can not feed everybody in a healthy way. People have to die that others can live. So why bother to do studys. Poor families here are called "pasta-families", because pasta is an easyway to feed people. 4€ a day is the money for food a day german people get as unemployment pay. You can live on that, with pasta. So poor people are fat, and getting fat doesn't cost much.
    And as i said it is about money. Selling grains is a multi billion dollar Business, thats even much in Euro. Why would anyone care to do studys on grain. To aid the poor? But who cares about poor people?
    Why are companys selling artificial sweeters not very interessted in studys about stevia? Why took it so long to get stevia on the market?
    It's like oil companys funding studys about alternativ energys. The OPEC is well known for funding alternatives to oil, to make them poor.
    And who else should be interessted? Pharma industires? Why, there is more money in sick people.
    Give me a reason why anyone would found a study that makes no one rich. Isn't all about getting more profit and getting rich?

    Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
    Off topic but I guarantee this is complete bullshit. So lets see some sources, for this AND for increases in celiac disease. Also, even if celiac disease has increased, can you link me to some study that shows it has to do with grain consumption?
    Ethische Anlagen: Katholische Bank investiert in Verhütungsmittel-Hersteller - SPIEGEL ONLINE you can garantie it is not bullshit, i hope you can read a little german. Otherwise it says the catholic pax bank invested 158.867€ in a company producing the pill (the sin abeting Company would be Wyeth) some money in arms and some in tabaco. Beside beeing a fraud, religion is a business, it's all about money, like the rest of the world, but you know that.
    No i can't link you a study that links celiac with grain. But is there any need? If you have celiac you should not eat grain, so even if it has to do with alien abduction or what ever you think, the solution is not eating grains.
    Increase in celiac disease baffles doctors - UPI.com
    and yes i only link newspaper articles. Find the studys yourself google is your friend, grains are not
    Last edited by Austrian_Carnivore; 06-24-2012, 04:34 AM.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by trekfan View Post
      1. Comparing Primal to Vegetarianism isn't valid, at least in terms of what they support nutritionally. Primal fully recommends the dropping of all grains and processed junk foods, while Vegetarianism-in my limited understanding of it-merely recommends dropping meat and all it's by products; it then replaces that meat with fake meat (such as soy) and does not recommend the elimination of grains in the least. Also, there are a number of former vegetarians and vegans who have switched to the Primal lifestyle on these very forums and their experiences seem to confirm that, while the initial gains of vegetarians are comparable to Primal (in terms of healthy benefits) it's not nearly as supportable in the long term, nor as easy to maintain.

      2. I can deny it and I shall-Vegetarianism and Primal, nutritionally, do not compare. Meat and meat by products aren't in most processed foods, unlike grains and grain by products. Primal doesn't advocate fake food, Vegetarianism does and the fake food it advocates is worse than the food it tells you not to eat.

      3. I'll grant you that there are more Vegetarian blogs/sites than Primal ones, simply because Vegetarianism has been around much longer in the mainstream. I will not grant you the point of Primal never becoming mainstream-everything becomes mainstream at some point when it becomes profitable to do so. Right now, with the state of the food/heath industry, it's not profitable-they're all making tons of money off the grain fed ill masses. Once they start losing money, than you'll see them begin to come out with "new, revolutionary" studies on things that have "incredible findings" and Primal/Paleo will be-in some form or fashion-part of the new health recommendations.
      You aren't really understanding my argument. I agree that vegetarianism is inferior to a primal diet in most incarnations. My argument is that everything you said about primal (I know people that have done great on it, I feel great on it, lots of people on the internet do great on it too, so it must be right) can be said about vegetarianism (which both of us know is in most forms a lacking diet). So, if you can make the same arguments for why vegetarianism is the best diet that you made for why primal is the best, your arguments are invalid.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
        You aren't really understanding my argument. I agree that vegetarianism is inferior to a primal diet in most incarnations. My argument is that everything you said about primal (I know people that have done great on it, I feel great on it, lots of people on the internet do great on it too, so it must be right) can be said about vegetarianism (which both of us know is in most forms a lacking diet). So, if you can make the same arguments for why vegetarianism is the best diet that you made for why primal is the best, your arguments are invalid.
        You must not be understanding me, because you can't compare Vegetarianism to Primal; it's not doable. Vegetarianism does not call for the elimination of grains and foods with grain by products in them. Vegetarianism promotes fake food, Primal does not. Because of these things, and more Vegetarianism cannot be compared to Primal, thusly they cannot have the same things said about them. People who are vegetarians don't say "well, my diabetes/arthritis/ect has been healed thanks to giving up meat!" It simply hasn't been heard of in regards to vegetarianism (at least I haven't heard of it).

        The specific examples that Primal offers (the success stories and various other resources on this site and others) don't compare to vegetarianism at all.
        Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

        Current Age: 25

        Total Loss: 126 lbs

        Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

        Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

        Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

        My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Nady View Post
          Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.
          You will at least have the moral high ground, and others (including me) would be interested to see it.
          http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
            You will at least have the moral high ground, and others (including me) would be interested to see it.
            Since you quoted me~
            1. My Google works the same as everybody else's.
            2. I have better things to do than feed the resident troll.
            3. I'm 62~ the *moral high ground* got flattened out a couple of decades ago~ frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
              I like arguing with people that are wrong on the internet. I guess you prefer a nice big circle jerk though where everyone just agrees with everything you believe.
              I wish I had your spare time, then I'd log on vegan sites and troll away.
              Fortunately I've got better things to do.

              What about you?
              Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Nady View Post
                Since you quoted me~
                1. My Google works the same as everybody else's.
                2. I have better things to do than feed the resident troll.
                3. I'm 62~ the *moral high ground* got flattened out a couple of decades ago~ frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
                You cannot be willing to claim superiority, or be dismissive of others beliefs, if you don't have the evidence to back your stance up. Its really that simple.
                http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
                  You cannot be willing to claim superiority, or be dismissive of others beliefs, if you don't have the evidence to back your stance up. Its really that simple.
                  Here's some evidence. The China Study is often held up as being THE definitive scientific study demonstrating the rightness of vegetarianism.

                  Denise Minger eviscerates the faulty analysis that went into the original study, and also along the way, highlights that the data shows wheat in particular in a very bad light.

                  Reading through Denise's china study posts is not for the faint of heart, but I found it to be fairly entertaining and very informative.
                  Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                  Griff's cholesterol primer
                  5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                  Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                  TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                  bloodorchid is always right

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
                    You cannot be willing to claim superiority, or be dismissive of others beliefs, if you don't have the evidence to back your stance up. Its really that simple.
                    Where did I claim superiority? Dismiss other's beliefs? JimHensen has a long history here of dismissing PB, I will not argue my personal experiences against his. The only real evidence I have is the same as everyone else's~ how PB affects us. All the research, studies, opinions of the medical profession mean nothing compared to that.

                    Besides, you know as well as the rest here, most 'studies' reflect the position of the sponsor~ and for the most part, that's CW.

                    Here~ you want my proof? Read this thread~ http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post875953
                    Last edited by Nady; 06-28-2012, 02:42 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      i hate this "doctors know stuff" crap that society as produced. standard rants now as follows:
                      -doctors don't do their own research, they learn the same interesting stuff that anyone else can, and they follow and preach public policy the same way you do. (i have one older GP friend who was like "paleo what? oh that's interesting. all i know now is that i just tell my patients what NHS policy says to tell them." i have another A&E - ER to americans - doctor friend who went paleo on my advice and thinks this is fucking awesome and totally supported in the literature. neither one has done any hands-on nutritional, biochemical, or epidemiological studies of their own. it's just not part of the curriculum.) DOCTORS ARE NOT GODS, PEOPLE.
                      -people don't know how to think anymore because science education in the west sucks. science is not about memorizing facts. good science is about good experimental design, statistical analysis, interpretation, and designing more experiments to test the interpretation. it's also about giving up on interpretations that don't hold water. do they teach you this in school? no.

                      (getting off soapbox)

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by bananabonobo View Post
                        (getting off soapbox)
                        lol
                        " If you truly love nature you will find beauty everywhere"

                        - Vincent Van Gogh




                        Primal Since January 2011

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                          Post the research.
                          MDA, the main site to this forum (just click on the big banner at the top of the page or "start here" and read through articles), has lots of this research. He links to a variety of sources on these topics, and has done a lot of the hard work for us. Of course, always go find some more research for yourself.

                          I get the feeling you just have an argumentative spirit about you. I bet you'll argue about that too. But I am sincerely curious why you are here if you have such views. Are you trying to convert us? Good luck getting anyone here to go back to grains who have seen such fantastic results. You are using up a lot of energy that could be better spent on something positive and productive.

                          Is it just me or does this forum in general get negative most of the time? I'm surprised at how hostle people are. Perhaps it comes from the constant battles we face against CW. But why do we attack each other? I am also noting the huuuge variety of what primal/paleo is to some people.
                          Don't let anybody tell you, "You can't" just because they can't.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            This is weirdness to me. I'm primal, and I feel much better since stopping the grains. However, jimhensen's posts don't bother me. I like a little disagreement. Skepticism is good, and it's what got most of us to this point, yes? Besides, nothing he's written is nearly (like, in the same universe) as offensive as saying he wishes SAD would just work faster at killing people off.

                            Maybe there's just big huge history I'm missing.

                            And hi, y'all. It's my first post.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              NHS doctors are not allowed to give advice against NHS policy as they can be fired for that. Drs John Briffa and Charles V Clark in London are in private practice. So though my GP is supportive he can't recommend my diet to anyone else even though he's really really pleased that my blood glucose is now normal though I have type 2 diabetes and that I'm down from UK size 22 to UK size 14. All my health markers are good, he's seeing this working for himself. No one else in his practice had diabetes as bad as mine and no-one else has gone down from high BG to normal, he told me.

                              I was diagnosed with sight-threatening retinopathy but in between diagnosis and visit to consultant my eyes actually improved thanks to my diet. Consultant said he wished that more of his patients were as invested in their own health as me and told me if I kept it up, there was a good chance my eyes would heal themselves. He was the first healthcare professional I have encountered (other than my doctor) to be supportive !

                              In the UK people revere the NHS and it's as much a part of our country as HM the Queen. So people are brainwashed unfortunately and I've given up trying to tell people about low carb even in my family. They are seeing me getting thinner and healthier and still don't believe.

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