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  • #61
    Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
    Well if I had to make a judgment on whether grains are healthy or not from the research I have seen, I would say that they are, but that is really besides the point. I can tell you that I have found very little evidence that it is bad for you.
    Exactly which grains are you talking about? The pre-1980 ones that I ate without incident, or the current bastardized ones that give me raging, debilitating eczema? Because modern, GMO grains have most definitely been linked to quite a few auto-immune disorders (like fibromyalgia) as well as an increase in gluten allergies/intolerances.

    Why do you think there are so many ads on TV for immunosuppressant and antidepressant drugs?
    Last edited by Nady; 06-23-2012, 01:32 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by trekfan View Post
      Sure, there aren't any official numbers, but we as human beings have the ability to determine for ourselves, with our own eyes/mind what works and what doesn't. Judging by what I and others see here, and in various Paleo/Primal sites/blogs around the internet, it seems as if people are beginning to come around, albeit slowly.
      I could EASILY make the same claim for vegetarianism. You can find tons of forums and blogs just like the ones you are talking about that show people with improved health after dropping meat. How is primal any different from vegetarianism in terms of what blogs and people on forums dedicated to the diet say about it?

      Originally posted by trekfan View Post
      If grains were so vital, so necessary, for a healthy life and diet, than why have so many of us found that life without them is so much better than it ever was with them? The entire Primal community here and around the world can't be a statistical anomaly, can it? We can't all be blessed with some magical ability to live a good life without grains, can we? That makes no rational, logical sense. When so many people are eating diets full of grains and processed foods (with HFCS and other grain based derivatives in it) and their health continues to decline by following the same advice doctors/nutritionists/ect have been giving for decades...doesn't that say their way is broken? I can't make any other conclusion. I acknowledge there are an infinite number of variables to take into account with such a broad statement (genetics, exercise, illness, ect) but the human body responds more to diet than anything-if the diet is messed up, than you might as well not even bother.
      Replace grains with meat, and primal with vegetarianism, and someone on a vegetarian website can say the exact same thing. You can't even deny it.

      Originally posted by trekfan View Post
      Will Primal become mainstream? Not for another two decades at least. Not until it becomes too burdensome, unprofitable, and costly to the companies/people/government that supports this grain obsessed diet will things change.
      Primal will never become mainstream. But my points are 100% valid and you just have to do some searches for vegetarian blogs and forums to know that I am right. In fact, I bet there are a lot more vegetarian blogs and forums than primal/paleo ones.

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      • #63
        You'd be hard pressed to find a vegetarian that made absolutely no changes other than dropping meat. And vegetarian is actually quite possible (if you also drop glutenous grains) while vegan is going to cause health problems further down the road.

        The usual case has the convert going from McDonald's biggest Facebook fan to vegetarian, so of course they feel better.
        Durp.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Austrian_Carnivore View Post
          It wasn't so long ago cigaretts were adverticed as healthy for your gut. One even had a campainge where your physician would prescribe you with one package a day. People who said "That could be unhealty" were laught at. Same with the scientist who said "Well, maybe Transfats aren't that good for us, and maybe they kill people". People laught at her, and she lost her job. Well that was a long time ago. And today well we know, transfats are killing us as does smoking. Not all of us for sure, as some are better in adapting then others. But let's face it, fat people maybe don't adapt that well, thats why they are fat after all.
          Comparing trans fats and cigarettes to grains is laughable. There have been TONS of studies on grains and they don't show that they are bad. You could say they are all a big conspiracy, but is that really the logical explanation? Or you could come up with some other round about way of rationalizing all the studies that disagree with you.

          Originally posted by Austrian_Carnivore View Post
          It's like the catholic church who preaches how bad contraception is and what a sin it is. But they ore shareholders of companies selling contraception. I would say that makes them a hypocrite.
          Off topic but I guarantee this is complete bullshit. So lets see some sources, for this AND for increases in celiac disease. Also, even if celiac disease has increased, can you link me to some study that shows it has to do with grain consumption?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Nady View Post
            Exactly which grains are you talking about? The pre-1980 ones that I ate without incident, or the current bastardized ones that give me raging, debilitating eczema? Because modern, GMO grains have most definitely been linked to quite a few auto-immune disorders (like fibromyalgia) as well as an increase in gluten allergies/intolerances.

            Why do you think there are so many ads on TV for immunosuppressant and antidepressant drugs?
            lol, IT HAS TO BE THE GRAINZ!!!!!

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
              You'd be hard pressed to find a vegetarian that made absolutely no changes other than dropping meat. And vegetarian is actually quite possible (if you also drop glutenous grains) while vegan is going to cause health problems further down the road.

              The usual case has the convert going from McDonald's biggest Facebook fan to vegetarian, so of course they feel better.
              And you would be hard pressed to find any primal people that JUST dropped grains from their diet. And if that is all it took for them to go primal then they were probably already healthy.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                lol, IT HAS TO BE THE GRAINZ!!!!!
                Maybe you should try getting your info from websites not owned by the grain industry. Then you might have a better grasp on the situation.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                  Well if I had to make a judgment on whether grains are healthy or not from the research I have seen, I would say that they are, but that is really besides the point. I can tell you that I have found very little evidence that it is bad for you.
                  I don't understand, I don't know if you're just trying to get people riled up, you're illiterate, or what, but most of the newer research clearly suggests that grains cause adverse reactions in almost ALL people who consume them. There is also strong suggestions that the primal diet is vastly superior to others when it comes to total nutrient intake, according to the research. When you put yourself in the shoes of a Grok, and you realize that bc of eating primally, I COULD go up to 72 hours (in my case) without food before I started feeling problems, it's pretty apparent to me that this is the way we were "designed" to eat. Any diet that eliminates the junk will certainly make you feel better, but a vegetarian that feels great may not know how great they would feel if they ate real meat. There's a reason our body and brains reward us for high caloric, fatty meals, and when you realize you can eat that way and effortlessly maintain or lose weight, common sense is pretty much slapping you in the face at that point. And by the way, do you even look at who those studies you look at are funded by? Maybe we could start a topic about properly dissecting research results.

                  A lot of the research that suggests that dropping meat is so healthy for cancer prevention is bc of the pH balance of your body. The two most acidic things we put in our bodies are animal products and grains. Eliminate one and reduce your acid load, you will have better health. So which one is right? Ounce for ounce, grains are more acidic, we just tend to not eat as "heavy" of portions. But balancing it out by eating a full plate of fruits and veggies alongside a primal dinner? Awesome health.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Why is it when I start a thread it always seems to turn into a huge thing that goes awry. Must be a talent.
                    Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

                    Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      No, that's just what happens to every single thread on this forum.

                      _-J o u r n a l_--------- ---- ---- --- --- -- -- -

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                        I could EASILY make the same claim for vegetarianism. You can find tons of forums and blogs just like the ones you are talking about that show people with improved health after dropping meat. How is primal any different from vegetarianism in terms of what blogs and people on forums dedicated to the diet say about it?



                        Replace grains with meat, and primal with vegetarianism, and someone on a vegetarian website can say the exact same thing. You can't even deny it.



                        Primal will never become mainstream. But my points are 100% valid and you just have to do some searches for vegetarian blogs and forums to know that I am right. In fact, I bet there are a lot more vegetarian blogs and forums than primal/paleo ones.
                        1. Comparing Primal to Vegetarianism isn't valid, at least in terms of what they support nutritionally. Primal fully recommends the dropping of all grains and processed junk foods, while Vegetarianism-in my limited understanding of it-merely recommends dropping meat and all it's by products; it then replaces that meat with fake meat (such as soy) and does not recommend the elimination of grains in the least. Also, there are a number of former vegetarians and vegans who have switched to the Primal lifestyle on these very forums and their experiences seem to confirm that, while the initial gains of vegetarians are comparable to Primal (in terms of healthy benefits) it's not nearly as supportable in the long term, nor as easy to maintain.

                        2. I can deny it and I shall-Vegetarianism and Primal, nutritionally, do not compare. Meat and meat by products aren't in most processed foods, unlike grains and grain by products. Primal doesn't advocate fake food, Vegetarianism does and the fake food it advocates is worse than the food it tells you not to eat.

                        3. I'll grant you that there are more Vegetarian blogs/sites than Primal ones, simply because Vegetarianism has been around much longer in the mainstream. I will not grant you the point of Primal never becoming mainstream-everything becomes mainstream at some point when it becomes profitable to do so. Right now, with the state of the food/heath industry, it's not profitable-they're all making tons of money off the grain fed ill masses. Once they start losing money, than you'll see them begin to come out with "new, revolutionary" studies on things that have "incredible findings" and Primal/Paleo will be-in some form or fashion-part of the new health recommendations.
                        Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

                        Current Age: 25

                        Total Loss: 126 lbs

                        Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

                        Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

                        Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

                        My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by codered5 View Post
                          I don't understand, I don't know if you're just trying to get people riled up, you're illiterate, or what, but most of the newer research clearly suggests that grains cause adverse reactions in almost ALL people who consume them. There is also strong suggestions that the primal diet is vastly superior to others when it comes to total nutrient intake, according to the research.
                          Post the research.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by jimhensen View Post
                            Post the research.
                            Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Nady View Post
                              Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.
                              +1
                              Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

                              Current Age: 25

                              Total Loss: 126 lbs

                              Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

                              Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

                              Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

                              My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                lol, people claim there is a lot of new research saying that grains are bad for you...then I ask for the research to be posted and you refuse. Guys, there is research that says that grains actually cures cancer. I'm not going to post it though.

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