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  • #31
    deleted.
    Last edited by JoeyA; 06-19-2012, 10:09 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      There's a third choice. Get. A. Blood. Test. It's not that hard. Then you would at least know what you are trying to correct and not just shooting blindly in the dark (and quite possibly shooting yourself in the thyroid).
      That's fine, I'm always a fan of getting some data. However, I think the point is that the data may not be helpful. Sort of the way Vitamin D3 levels were set at the point that would prevent rickets well before it was understood that D3 was a hormone with lots of functions outside of bone formation or the way that TSH was considered "normal" at 5 before they understood that those values could indicate disease.

      None of this is really my point though. My point is that is it possible to disagree with someone on a topic without calling them stupid. The recommendations given to us by our physicians are based on the data they have at hand - which is ALWAYS flawed. That is just the nature of the beast.
      Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

      http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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      • #33
        Originally posted by JoeyA View Post
        Why are there so many ad hominems on this forum? Is this common here? (I'm new)

        I don't believe in the iodine stuff, but I do think it's rude to refer to people not even in the argument as a "circus" or "lemmings".
        Yeah, Joey. I probably could have chosen more polite language there but it just gets my goat to see people in danger of doing serious harm to themselves because they just believe something on an internet forum.

        Also, if you read much of the iodine thread you will see that it does wander off into ridiculousness. I mean, painting your testicles with iodine, c'mon.

        And the fervor with which Grizz jumps on every thread regarding any sort of ailment and assures them that they MUST supplement with iodine IMMEDIATELY or their health will SUFFER , etc. gets a little tiresome. He actually tried to talk a person out of real cancer treatment in favor of iodine the other day. The guy is a clown but he is also dangerous.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          ... iodine can be deadly for the wrong person in the wrong quantity.
          Do you have proof of this - a study that supports this? Or just anecdotes?

          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          That's nice Grizz but how many of your band of lemmings are actually having blood tests done before taking paintbrush to testicles?
          Blood tests are not the best. A 24hr urine iodine-loading test is more reliable. And yes, I did test before starting iodine. I'm on 50mg/day now, and my body temp has gone up from 97.8 to 98.2. I've been on NatureThroid and T3 for a year, and although my bloodwork is optimal, I could never get my temp up to close to normal, until iodine.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Owl View Post
            Blood tests are not the best. A 24hr urine iodine-loading test is more reliable. And yes, I did test before starting iodine. I'm on 50mg/day now, and my body temp has gone up from 97.8 to 98.2. I've been on NatureThroid and T3 for a year, and although my bloodwork is optimal, I could never get my temp up to close to normal, until iodine.
            Great. I have nothing against this. A real test. A real deficiency. Appropriate action. Terrific.

            I am not anti-iodine. I am anti-recklessness.

            edit: a well balanced article about iodine : http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=18395

            A quote from this article : "Taking in excess iodine can cause or worsen hypothyroidism." http://www.thyroid.org/patients/pati...hyroidism.html

            And one specifically about Hashimoto's : http://suite101.com/article/iodine-a...iditis-a100630
            Last edited by Paleobird; 06-19-2012, 11:19 PM.

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            • #36
              To the OP:

              The antibodies of Hashimoto's destroy thyroid tissue. Somehow I cannot believe that it will simply grow back. Plus some people also believe that if you take thyroid hormones it will make your thyroid shrink because it kind of feals unemployed with all the external hormones. An ultrasound will tell you the size of your thyroid, but please note that doctors usually only know "too large" - "too small" doesn't register with them. Educate yourself.

              Now with some people the thyroid will grow and not shrink, but this growth consists of scar tissue, which does not produce hormones. The ultrasound can also tell you the texture of your thyroid: basically little or no echo and/or an inhomogenous texture means scar tissue.

              Personal experience: my need for thyroid hormones knows only one direction: up. Pretty stable usually, but it never went down.

              That said, you can actually try to reduce/stop taking hormones. This will not kill you soon, that would take months/years. Record your symptoms and well-beeing, get labs drawn often and be ready to pull the brakes if and when things go wrong. Usually free T4 goes down and TSH (and sometimes free T3) will go up when you reduce external hormones. You probably know the symptoms of cold extremities, weight gain, tiredness, brain fog, etc.

              I would personally never do that as I remember life with low thyroid all too well.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post

                A quote from this article : "Taking in excess iodine can cause or worsen hypothyroidism." Hypothyroidism - Thyroid.org
                Doctors who promote iodine have found that taking 200-400mg/day of selenium for at least a month before starting iodine prevents Hashi's from getting worse from iodine.

                http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=18395
                This article is behind the times in information. "In North America, iodine is added to salt and bread." Bread now has very little iodine. Potassium bromate is now used to condition dough, and bromides are a direct inhibitor of iodine. They compete for the same receptors.
                Only about half of US households use iodized salt. And with a lot of people eating low-salt because of hypertension, very few people get enough iodine from salt. BTW, commercially prepared foods must list "iodized salt" in their ingredients if they use it. In all my years of reading labels, I've only see that one time. So the vast majority of salt people ingest is not iodized.
                And it is not so much that we don't get adequate amounts of iodine, it's that there are so many halogens (bromide, chloride, flouride) that we now ingest that block absorption of iodine. Higher amounts of iodine are needed to kick out the halogens. Once that is accomplished, then the amount can be lowered to a maintenance level.

                http://www.thyroid.org/patients/pati...hyroidism.html
                This second article sited is total CW. They say that TSH is the most important diagnostic test, Synthroid only should be prescribed, and there is no mention of Reverse T3 at all.
                Last edited by Owl; 06-19-2012, 11:35 PM.

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                • #38
                  Owl, can you point me to a credible source that says bromine is an inhibitor of iodine?

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                  • #39
                    I will conclude this discussion with Paleobird. She has made her EXTREME negativism very clear.

                    1) Iodine with required supplements are essential for human health

                    2) Iodine detoxes our bodies of Halogen Toxic chemicals, including Fluoride, Bromide, Chlorine & heavy metals
                    The Bromide Dominance Theory
                    Iodine deficiencies & dosages

                    3) I have presented Doctor reports, including a video

                    4) I have presented testimonials

                    5) For more information on iodine:
                    * Visit the Yahoo Iodine Group with 6,000+ members
                    * Download their document, "The Guide to Supplementing with Iodine"
                    * Visit our Sister Discussion Group, CureZone Iodine Group
                    * Examine the many Doctor Reports & Research Reports at our Iodine References:
                    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references
                    * Visit the BreastCancerChoices Group

                    6) There is a choice between CW Doctors and Iodine Doctors
                    If I ever need a doctor, I will choose one from this Iodine List.

                    I suggest that everyone do their own research and do what is best for your own health. If anyone has any further questions, join us at our iodine group.
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread45205.html

                    Grizz
                    Last edited by Grizz; 06-20-2012, 05:33 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Grizz;874092
                      6) There is a choice between CW Doctors and [URL="http://breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html"
                      Iodine Doctors [/URL]
                      Oh good lord!


                      I'll post some more about the dangers of high dose iodine. The fact that you seem to hang your hat on 2 complete hacks like Dr davis and Dr kruse should give people more than enough reason to have cynicism on your recommendations.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JoeyA View Post
                        Owl, can you point me to a credible source that says bromine is an inhibitor of iodine?
                        Joey, I have been reading a lot of articles on iodine over the past year. Most will state that all halogens compete for the same receptors. Hakala Labs, Hakala Research - Home where I had my testing done, also tests for bromide. I had both iodine and bromide tested. I was low in iodine, and high in bromide. When I retest, I expect to find that's I'm high in iodine and low in bromide, which will mean that iodine has kicked out the bromide. My diet during this time is consistant, I've been gluten free for 2 years, and totally grain free for 1 year.

                        From Hakala Labs Hakala Research - Home
                        "If the body is exposed to excess bromide, it can result in the bromide interfering with Iodine utilization in the body and creating a state of iodine deficiency.
                        While your body has receptors for and needs iodine to make thyroid hormone, there is no known physiologic usefor bromide in the body. When bromide binds to the iodine receptors in the thyroid gland, it disrupts the normal physiologic functioning of that gland.
                        The body is very slow at eliminating bromide. The normal half life of Bromide is 12 days and in cases of salt restriction and chronic bromide exposure, the half life of Bromide can be as high as 40-50 days.
                        People who ingest bromide may feel dull and apathetic and have difficulty concentration. Bromide also causes depression, headaches and irritability.
                        When iodine is deficient, the toxicity of bromide is accelerated.
                        Bromide toxicity may develop when bromide, acquired through environmental or dietary exposure causes bromide levels in the body to rise high enough to inhibit iodine utilization. Iodine supplementation will increase bromide excretion thereby reducing bromide toxicity."

                        This article from King Arthur Flour shows that potassium bromate used to condition bread dough is also a possible carcinogen, and has been banned in many countries. Bromate Fact Sheet - King Arthur Flour

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                          Oh good lord!


                          I'll post some more about the dangers of high dose iodine. The fact that you seem to hang your hat on 2 complete hacks like Dr davis and Dr kruse should give people more than enough reason to have cynicism on your recommendations.
                          Thank you.

                          But he HAS to be RIGHT because he uses CAPITAL letters. Oh, good lord, indeed.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KG
                            Grizz. You do this all the time. Whenever anyone has ANY problem, they're automatically deficient in the next miracle nutrient or must go through the latest protocol in order to get their health back. You go through phases where all you seem to do is promote the next best thing in every thread where the poster has a problem that they would like advice on, regardless of what the problem actually is. There are no silver bullets.

                            Nobody is disputing the importance of Iodine; they're disputing the importance of being cautious instead of ramming head-first into the latest health craze and possibly making themselves worse because of their lack of concrete evidence and insight.

                            Seriously, quit with the fads. It gets old REAL fast.
                            When your "evidence and insight" are a list of vague symptoms that could apply to many conditions found on a blog such as "I feel tired", that is not enough reason to be dosing yourself with a potentially harmful substance.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Owl View Post
                              Joey, I have been reading a lot of articles on iodine over the past year. Most will state that all halogens compete for the same receptors. Hakala Labs, Hakala Research - Home where I had my testing done, also tests for bromide. I had both iodine and bromide tested. I was low in iodine, and high in bromide. When I retest, I expect to find that's I'm high in iodine and low in bromide, which will mean that iodine has kicked out the bromide. My diet during this time is consistant, I've been gluten free for 2 years, and totally grain free for 1 year.
                              I have no objection to what Owl is doing. This is the safe and sane way to approach it.

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                              • #45
                                Please do not take iodine if you have Hashimoto's or a selenium deficiency

                                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                                Anyone making medical diagnoses over the net without ever meeting their "patient" is not a real doctor, IMO, and should have their license revoked. That is the height of irresponsibility.
                                I made the mistake of taking iodine, thinking I was doing something good for myself and I got iodine induced autoimmune hypothyroidism. It DESTROYED my thyroid and sent my life into a tailspin. STAY AWAY FROM IODINE TREATMENTS PLEASE! THEY ARE DANGEROUS. Especially for the thyroid. A once daily supplement and a proper diet will give you all the iodine you need. Anything more is dangerous. Take it from me. Don't make the same mistake I made. I almost died and am lucky to be alive. Find a doctor you trust, preferably an MD who also does TCM. Consult with that doctor before you take ANYTHING. A good doctor would know iodine is, yes, like throwing gasoline on a fire for hashimotos. Stay away!

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