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  • #16
    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Anyone making medical diagnoses over the net without ever meeting their "patient" is not a real doctor, IMO, and should have their license revoked. That is the height of irresponsibility.
    I don't really believe it's any different than the 20+ doctors I have been physically seen by over my lifetime. They usually don't even touch you but just ask alot of questions. Rarely does my endo, OB, or GP do more than that before prescribing medication that may or may not be really dangerous for me. I had one doctor who hadn't even seen my 15 year old daughter as he lived 3 States away and was the only Pediatric endocrinologist in the area. He actually prescribed a medication that can be perminantly damaging to the liver and possibly fatal to someone as young as her, (over the phone and without even seeing a picture of her) but only going off of her very limited lab tests that had been done by her Pediatrician. The last time I took my 5 year old son to the doctor as he had a 105.2 fever( just 1 month ago). The doctor didn't even touch him but asked me what his symptoms were and then told me he had a childhood illness called 5th disease without any other tests. How is that any different than sending lab results to an online doctor who then listens to your issues and asks questions before giving advice and/ or having you get more lab work done?
    F/37yr/5' 5"
    SW: 154 March 2011
    CW: 140 July to Oct 2011
    PB: 145 gained 5lbs in first 4 months March to July 2012
    With a combo of PB and IF-ing 5 days a week (1 x 1200 calorie meal per day) I have lost 15 lbs PB/IF = 130 lbs July 2012 to current
    GW: 120
    Ultimate Goals ar to be: Happy/ Fit/ Energetic/ Feel great/ Balanced/ cure my thyroid and adrenals

    Comment


    • #17
      The internet "Doctors" are all peddling their supplements and/or books. Right but it's the real doctors who are the evil money grubbers. (?)

      Mom5booklover, you seem to have had a lot of bad experiences with incompetent doctors and I'm very sorry that that has happened to you. That said, there are a lot of very competent and caring doctors out there, one's who take time with their patient, actually examine them, and don't automatically toss pills at everything. If you don't have those doctors, then vote with your feet and find them. They do exist.

      Advocating "supplements" that can actually be deadly depending on the personal details over the net is still irresponsible and should be grounds for revocation of a medical credential. These pseudo-docs can hide behind disclaimers such as the one quoted above and behind the fact that the supplement industry is very loosely regulated. Real doctors are held to a higher standard.

      Comment


      • #18
        PaleoBird,

        Read this message from MistyLuna, I'm sure she will disagree with your extremely negative attitude on iodine:
        I am 47 years old and have suffered from FBD since my early 20s. Additionally I have dense breasts, and have had benign cysts removed on 2 occasions. My breast pain was continuous. I decided on Iodine after tests indicated another cyst back in December of 2011. I commenced iodine therapy (5 mg iodine) and IMMEDIATELY (no joke) my breasts became less sensitive. I gradually worked up my dosage to 50 mg daily (now on Iodoral). My menses have become regular and pain free. I do still get sensitive breasts right prior to the start of my period-BUT if I take an ADDITIONAL 12.5 mg of iodine, the pain IMMEDIATELY (no joke) goes away! I did have detox systems (all the typical ones listed), but I just plugged away with the iodine and about a month ago the detox symptoms ceased.

        My husband and I take Boron because it is a cofactor of D3. My husband has taken 50,000 i.u. of D3 daily since November 2011 and I have taken 30,000 i.u. of D3 daily since November 2011--as we were both severely deficient. Testing indicated 7 ng/ml for my husband and 32 ng/ml for me. We just got back our most recent d3 test last week, and my husband is now at 85 ng/ml and I am now at 74 ng/ml. My husband takes 9 mg Boron daily and I take 6 mg Boron daily.

        Regarding Lugol's and my husband, we worked him about to an incredible 200 mg daily--and he has FEW detox symptoms. Just a few detox pimples on his face. But, these are starting to subside.

        We both feel INCREDIBLE!

        PS thank you for the WARM WELCOME!!

        ============================
        Misty added this:
        Sadly, my doctor told me nothing about FBD--I had to do my own research.

        Years and years ago, when I was a toddler (remember I am 47 now), my Mom would take me to a holistic physician--and he had me on iodine. He passed away, and we switched to a CW physician, and all the Healthy Stuff stopped. Well not really--we continued to eat minimally processed foods and take a multitude of supplements--including kelp.

        About 10 years ago, on my own, I stopped the kelp supplements because I was concerned with contamination. My hormonal health really did take a spiral down--but I felt there was nothing I could do but suffer thru it.

        This last fall (2011) when both my husband and I discovered we had hormonal issues, and we just did not like the medical options being offered to us-we decided to do research on our own.

        We researched the Japanese lifestyle, and realized that Vitamin d3 and Iodine were missing from our American ways. We cut out processed foods, including sugar, and went organic as much as possible. We eat reasonable portions of meat but include tons of fresh veggies and nuts and a bit of fruit. No breads, no cakes, no cookies. Since we are on our own here, it is wonderful to find this site. We also peruse the Vitamin D council website and facebook page. We are sleeping better, we have lost weight, we have increased energy and better moods.

        Please continue to post, Grizz--I have been reading your posts and learning. You just never know who you're positively impacting.
        What are you going to say about Misty's AMAZING success? She just posted these messages today.

        Also, your "Real Doctors" have no idea how to cure Fibrocystic Breasts, PCOS, & Cysts because it is our experience that they know NOTHING about iodine, as we can see in Misty's case history above.

        Grizz
        Last edited by Grizz; 06-19-2012, 03:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Anecdote
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          An anecdote is a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person. It may be as brief as the setting and provocation of a bon mot. An anecdote is always presented as based in a real incident[1] involving actual persons, whether famous or not, usually in an identifiable place. However, over time, modification in reuse may convert a particular anecdote to a fictional piece, one that is retold but is "too good to be true".

          The word 'anecdote'is an amusing short story (in Greek: "unpublished", literally "not given out") comes from Procopius of Caesarea, the biographer of Justinian I, who produced a work entitled Ἀνέκδοτα (Anekdota, variously translated as Unpublished Memoirs or Secret History), which is primarily a collection of short incidents from the private life of the Byzantine court. Gradually, the term anecdote came to be applied[4] to any short tale utilized to emphasize or illustrate whatever point the author wished to make.[5]
          [edit]Qualification as Evidence

          Main article: Anecdotal evidence
          Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, as evidence that cannot be investigated using the scientific method. The problem with arguing based on anecdotal evidence is that anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical; only statistical evidence can determine how typical something is. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy.

          Comment


          • #20
            Paleobird....I'm not disregarding a physical examination and consultation of the patient in the least. What I've seen says evidence indicates that a patient history is the most telling portion of the exam. But, this along with lab values can be sent and received over the internet.

            There are nuances that will definitely be missed in neuromusculoskeletal assessment without that physical evaluation, but lets face it...your standard MD isn't very well qualified for that anyway. No, they are focusing on internal medicine and biochemical markers and other "numbers" which are all accessible via e-mail or fax. Then they order more tests or not and verify the results....Easily manageable without human contact....IMO you can be a good nuff internist or endocrinologist via the internet given that most of their diagnosis and recommended interventions come via lab numbers.

            Oh, and by the way if your gonna go to and MD or DO at least find out if they practice Functional Medicine. Over the net or in person a pill pusher is a pill pusher.
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-19-2012, 06:48 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Anecdote
              From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

              An anecdote is a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person. It may be as brief as the setting and provocation of a bon mot. An anecdote is always presented as based in a real incident[1] involving actual persons, whether famous or not, usually in an identifiable place. However, over time, modification in reuse may convert a particular anecdote to a fictional piece, one that is retold but is "too good to be true".

              The word 'anecdote'is an amusing short story (in Greek: "unpublished", literally "not given out") comes from Procopius of Caesarea, the biographer of Justinian I, who produced a work entitled Ἀνέκδοτα (Anekdota, variously translated as Unpublished Memoirs or Secret History), which is primarily a collection of short incidents from the private life of the Byzantine court. Gradually, the term anecdote came to be applied[4] to any short tale utilized to emphasize or illustrate whatever point the author wished to make.[5]
              [edit]Qualification as Evidence

              Main article: Anecdotal evidence
              Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, as evidence that cannot be investigated using the scientific method. The problem with arguing based on anecdotal evidence is that anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical; only statistical evidence can determine how typical something is. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy.
              Paleobird,
              so you are trying to tell us that that Misty's amazing success curing her fibrocystic breast pain with iodine supplements after 27 years of SUFFERING means absolutely NOTHING ? ? ?
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post873407

              We have dozens of similar testimonials where members of Marks Daily Apple have documented their AMAZING results from taking iodine supplements.

              Just read all of the testimonials here at Iodine References.
              http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

              And you are going to try and tell us that these people & their wonderful experiences mean NOTHING ? ?

              I am curious, what do you suggest people do to get their required iodine for good health? Are you trying to tell people NOT to take iodine at all ? Which form of iodine supplements do you suggest people take?

              Grizz
              Last edited by Grizz; 06-19-2012, 08:10 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                I am curious, what do you suggest people do to get their required iodine for good health? Are you trying to tell people NOT to take iodine at all ? Which form of iodine supplements do you suggest people take?
                Grizz. Please. Take a breath.
                I never said that iodine was not an important thing for good health. I did say that too much iodine is just as bad as too little. Also that, until you have a medical diagnosis of a deficiency, supplementing based on an internet "doc's" recommendation is foolish because you could end up with too much and trash your thyroid. Vague symptoms such as "feeling tired" are not a basis for a diagnosis.

                I get all the iodine I need from seafood and sea veggies. Please don't start ranting about how they are TAINTED, yada, yada. It's simply not true. That scare tactic is pushed by the people who want you to buy their "pure" iodine supplements. I prefer to get my nutrition from my food, not from pill bottles.

                If someone suspects they may be deficient, they should see a real doctor, get some real bloodwork done and find out. If they really do have a deficiency, they can supplement any way they like. It's the self-diagnosis and self-experimentation with what can be a lethal substance if overdone that I find problematic.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                  Paleobird,
                  so you are trying to tell us that that Misty's amazing success curing her fibrocystic breast pain with iodine supplements after 27 years of SUFFERING means absolutely NOTHING ? ? ?
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post873407

                  We have dozens of similar testimonials where members of Marks Daily Apple have documented their AMAZING results from taking iodine supplements.

                  Just read all of the testimonials here at Iodine References.
                  http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

                  And you are going to try and tell us that these people & their wonderful experiences mean NOTHING ? ?

                  I am curious, what do you suggest people do to get their required iodine for good health? Are you trying to tell people NOT to take iodine at all ? Which form of iodine supplements do you suggest people take?

                  Grizz
                  .....Why do you have to supplement at all.....well I googled this WHFoods: iodine ....I eat all those...eggs, raw milk, yogurt, cheese, and on and on....does this mean I have no need to supplement? Or is supplementation only for those that dont eat this stuff? Better yet if your going to ask the question of "where you get your iodine" why dont you just give a number so we can evaluate if it can be gotten by food.
                  Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-19-2012, 08:14 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Grizz. Please. Take a breath.
                    I never said that iodine was not an important thing for good health. I did say that too much iodine is just as bad as too little. Also that, until you have a medical diagnosis of a deficiency, supplementing based on an internet "doc's" recommendation is foolish because you could end up with too much and trash your thyroid. Vague symptoms such as "feeling tired" are not a basis for a diagnosis.

                    I get all the iodine I need from seafood and sea veggies. Please don't start ranting about how they are TAINTED, yada, yada. It's simply not true. That scare tactic is pushed by the people who want you to buy their "pure" iodine supplements. I prefer to get my nutrition from my food, not from pill bottles.

                    If someone suspects they may be deficient, they should see a real doctor, get some real bloodwork done and find out. If they really do have a deficiency, they can supplement any way they like. It's the self-diagnosis and self-experimentation with what can be a lethal substance if overdone that I find problematic.
                    Paleobird,
                    I'm happy that you recommend that people take iodine supplements. How often do you recommend people eat sea foods per week?

                    Grizz

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Grizz View Post
                      Paleobird,
                      I'm happy that you recommend that people take iodine supplements. How often do you recommend people eat sea foods per week?

                      Grizz
                      I did not recommend supplements. Eating healthy foods=/=supplementation. And it's not something that has to be x# grams/day every day. Foods containing iodine, which, as neckhammer pointed out above are myriad, not exclusively seafood, are just a part of my normal diet. If someone chooses to get their nutrition from a pill instead of their food, that is their choice. It is not mine.

                      Only people with real medically diagnosed deficiencies even need to worry about this.

                      You as the ringleader of this iodine circus really do bear a responsibility to make it clear to people that iodine can be deadly for the wrong person in the wrong quantity. How would you feel if someone on your forum following your advice died because of irresponsible use of iodine? Please. Think about it.
                      Last edited by Paleobird; 06-19-2012, 09:03 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        That's nice Grizz but how many of your band of lemmings are actually having blood tests done before taking paintbrush to testicles?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          That's nice Grizz but how many of your band of lemmings are actually having blood tests done before taking paintbrush to testicles?
                          I think it is pretty unfair to characterize everyone who is trying iodine supplementation as "lemmings". It is possible to read the research, acknowledge the risks, and still decide it is worth a shot. People with longstanding health issues that are not helped by conventional medicine are often put in the position where they are forced to experiment on themselves.
                          Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                          http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jammies View Post
                            I think it is pretty unfair to characterize everyone who is trying iodine supplementation as "lemmings". It is possible to read the research, acknowledge the risks, and still decide it is worth a shot. People with longstanding health issues that are not helped by conventional medicine are often put in the position where they are forced to experiment on themselves.
                            This is not a substance to be played around with. If your MD is not helping, find one who will. A real iodine deficiency is easy to diagnose by a blood test. That list of ailments on the iodine thread are almost all symptomatic of many other health conditions and/or just being overweight and out of shape.

                            "Forced" to risk death? I don't think so. Herd mentality, the cool supplement of the month, sounds more likely.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              This is not a substance to be played around with. If your MD is not helping, find one who will. A real iodine deficiency is easy to diagnose by a blood test. That list of ailments on the iodine thread are almost all symptomatic of many other health conditions and/or just being overweight and out of shape.

                              "Forced" to risk death? I don't think so. Herd mentality, the cool supplement of the month, sounds more likely.
                              Well, when your choices are to feel like absolute crap every day of your life or do some experimentation on yourself it is a pretty easy choice to make. Doctors and conventional medicine can be fantastic, but there are lots of diseases that they can either only help modestly or not at all. I'm not saying that iodine is the answer for anyone, I just think dismissing people who want to try something different as morons all around is pretty closed minded.

                              I'm not afraid to gamble a little in order to try to have a life.
                              Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                              http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jammies View Post
                                Well, when your choices are to feel like absolute crap every day of your life or do some experimentation on yourself it is a pretty easy choice to make. Doctors and conventional medicine can be fantastic, but there are lots of diseases that they can either only help modestly or not at all. I'm not saying that iodine is the answer for anyone, I just think dismissing people who want to try something different as morons all around is pretty closed minded.

                                I'm not afraid to gamble a little in order to try to have a life.
                                There's a third choice. Get. A. Blood. Test. It's not that hard. Then you would at least know what you are trying to correct and not just shooting blindly in the dark (and quite possibly shooting yourself in the thyroid).

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